Finance (No. 2) Bill

Debate between Lord Mann and Brian Binley

Monday 11th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Binley]

I am grateful for that intervention. The truth of the matter is that we have a budget deficit of £70 million, but there is more lying behind it that we are not dealing with until we get the deficit down. There is the £1,450 billion of national debt, and if we add to that the money owed on private finance initiative schemes, the money owed to public sector pensions and the money that we have used to underwrite the banks, we get a figure of £3,000 billion. I asked the Treasury what a billion looked like, and I was told what a billion seconds was. This story has been heard in the House before, but I was shocked to learn that 1 billion seconds equates to just over 32 years. That puts into perspective the size of the problem that this nation faces. Again I plead with Opposition Members to come to terms with the problem, because I genuinely do not believe that we can solve it unless they recognise where it started.

[John Mann]

I cannot resist asking the hon. Gentleman whether he is aware of any country in the world, other than Uzbekistan, that has no national debt.

[Mr Binley]

This is not about whether or not we have a national debt; it is about the size of the national debt and its relation to our credit rating—

[John Mann]

rose—

[Mr Binley]

If the hon. Gentleman will allow me to finish, I will allow him to intervene again. Steady down.

This is about the size of the national debt and the deficit and their relationship to our triple A rating. If we had not taken the action that we did, it is likely that we would have lost that rating, which would have made all our interest costs considerably higher and the deficit massively bigger, causing the country even greater problems.

[John Mann]

Can the hon. Gentleman tell us where Britain stands on the league table of national debt, compared with other countries? Is it not true that we are towards the lower middle of the league table?

[Mr Binley]

I do not accept that point of view. This is not just about the size of the national debt; we need to consider its size in relation to the economy. Therein lies one of our problems. The fact is that ours is one of the worst situations in the G20. I should like to advise the hon. Gentleman that, as long as he and his party remain in denial, they will be unable to move forward, and that, for the good of politics, they need to move forward just a little.