Northern Ireland

Debate between Lord McAvoy and Baroness Suttie

Thursday 2nd November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord McAvoy (Lab)]

My Lords, first of all I thank the Minister and the Government for making the Secretary of State’s Statement available to us. In the spirit of co-operation, we are very grateful for that. I echo the words of my honourable friend Owen Smith, with which I think the Minister will agree: it is profoundly disappointing that after 10 months of talks, two elections and countless and increasingly meaningless deadlines, the larger parties remain deadlocked, unable to agree an agenda for change and unwilling to show trust in one another.

Where we perhaps disagree—although disagree might be too strong a word—is on the assessment of what more could have been done and might still be done. My honourable friend Owen Smith has, as befits the House of Commons, robustly expressed comments on some of the Government’s efforts so far. I hope a more productive approach will be taken.

The time may have come to consider drafting in outside help for the Northern Ireland politicians and the Secretary of State, as has happened before, to try to break the deadlock. The Labour Party, in co-operation with the Conservative Party and the Liberal Democrats, has a proud history of facilitating progress in Northern Ireland, and independent chairs for the talks were employed to great effect during that period. Will the Government consider doing likewise and bring in a fresh pair of eyes? Can the Minister tell us any more about the Government’s intentions now that this round of talks has failed?

We fully support the Government in bringing forward a budget, as it is the responsible thing to do. Public services in Northern Ireland, as elsewhere, need investment and not cuts. We hope the Minister will tell the House how the Government intend to consult the parties in Northern Ireland on the priorities and, most importantly given the history of Northern Ireland, ensure that the funds are spent equitably.

There are reports in the press that the Government have had discussions with the political parties in Northern Ireland to find ways to sustain and create a role for the Assembly, even under direct rule. Will the Minister enlarge on the thinking behind that? We do not believe that direct rule would be a good thing. It would be a profoundly damaging reversal in the peace process, and we cannot afford that. A shadow Assembly, scrutinising or advising Ministers and, crucially, sustaining the north-south and east-west institutions that are such vital components of the Good Friday agreement, might provide some mitigation. That is an idea we would be willing to explore and support the Government in as a means of sustaining the talks and finding a route back to devolution.

We hear what the Government are saying about MLAs’ pay. We understand the frustration and sometimes anger at the fact that payments are ongoing for MLAs and their staff in the current situation. It would be very easy to respond negatively to that. As we have found to our cost in the past, cutting politicians’ pay will always be popular. But we need this generation of Northern Irish politicians to talk, to work and to rebuild devolution. I know patience is wearing thin on the streets of Northern Ireland, but we hope the Government will resist steps that would diminish the engagement of negotiators and undermine the smaller parties in particular.

Finally, to echo my honourable friend Owen Smith, I want to give the Minister a foretaste of what direct rule would mean for the Government. Does he agree that this morning’s report by the Institute for Fiscal Studies makes shameful reading for any Government? It shows that more children will be driven into absolute poverty in Northern Ireland by universal credit and the two-child policy than in any other component nation of the United Kingdom. Will the Minister commit to considering using the forthcoming budget to undo that harm to the children of Northern Ireland?

I hope my comments are not taken as severe criticism. I repeat for the record that the Government have our full support in trying to reach a solution to the problems in Northern Ireland.

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, I too thank the Minister for repeating the Statement today and welcome him to his new role. It is a deeply challenging time to be taking on these responsibilities and I wish him well in the weeks and month ahead.

We on these Benches cannot help but be deeply disappointed by the lack of progress in forming a new Executive. It is much to be regretted that we have now reached the stage where, once again, it has become necessary to legislate to put in place a budget for Northern Ireland. However, we recognise our obligations to the people of Northern Ireland to ensure that public services can continue and agree that this is the responsible course of action at this time.

It has now been 10 months since the Executive collapsed and during this critical period Northern Ireland has been without an effective Government and without an effective voice. Northern Ireland is showing the strains of this political vacuum, with no one able to take the much-needed decisions to ensure effective public services and to build the shared society that we all want to see. This is all the more tragic at a time when strategic planning to grow the Northern Irish economy in the challenging months and years ahead is so deeply needed.

However, we take some comfort from the fact that the Secretary of State is not abandoning the talks process and that this Government and the Irish Government are continuing to work hard to restore the Executive. It is vital that the hard-won gains of recent decades are not discarded without exploring all of the options and alternatives. Northern Ireland and its political leaders have in the past overcome seemingly insurmountable challenges to find the accord that became the Belfast Good Friday agreement, but this requires a degree of leadership, flexibility and a spirit of compromise that, sadly, seems all too absent at present.

We therefore urge the Secretary of State to keep in mind that there may be alternative ways to save devolution and provide for shared and sustainable government for Northern Ireland. For example, has the Minister considered intervening to provide reform of the petition of concern? This mechanism is now not being used for the purposes for which it was intended, and the mutual veto in the hands of the DUP and Sinn Fein seriously hampers free and open debate and decision-making. Secondly, to echo the words of the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, has the Minister given active consideration to the suggestion made by my noble friend Lord Alderdice and others that the Assembly could continue even if the Executive Ministers are not in place? In that way, there would be an elected body with which the Northern Ireland Office Ministers and other Ministers could consult and ensure that a Northern Irish voice is heard during the Brexit negotiations, including possibly some level of effective representations on the joint ministerial committee which is dealing with Brexit matters.

We on these Benches continue to believe that power-sharing devolution is vital to local democracy and representative decision-making, facilitating reconciliation and providing a coherent regional voice in critical matters such as Brexit. We believe that it is possible to find creative solutions to the current impasse and urge all of those involved to redouble their efforts. The people of Northern Ireland deserve no less.

Northern Ireland Political Situation

Debate between Lord McAvoy and Baroness Suttie

Monday 3rd July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord McAvoy (Lab)]

My Lords, first, I welcome the Minister to his new post. I have had many dealings with him in the past and I look forward to continuing negotiations. I place on record my appreciation for his predecessor, the noble Lord, Lord Dunlop. I think most folk would agree that we maintained the cross-party consensus, which in many ways was due to the noble Lord, Lord Dunlop. I therefore place on record our appreciation of his efforts.

I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. We know that the Secretary of State, the Irish Foreign Minister Simon Coveney, his predecessor Charlie Flanagan, and all the Northern Irish parties have been working hard to try to narrow the gap on outstanding issues, notably on the question of the status of the Irish language and respect for all languages, culture and heritage in Northern Ireland. We welcome the fact that the Secretary of State did not come before Parliament today to announce that the shutters are coming down on the talks in Belfast.

People in Belfast and across Northern Ireland will have heard the Secretary of State’s contention that there remains “the prospect” of a deal this week. If that is achieved, then he will enjoy our full support in passing any necessary legislation to enable the Executive to reform and the Assembly to meet. But I think there will be frustration among many Northern Ireland citizens that a full six months after the Executive broke down and little more than a week before 12 July—the high point of the marching season—we remain at this impasse.

Without departing from the consensus which has existed for many years between the Government and ourselves, and indeed with the Liberals, some hard questions must now be asked about what more the Government can do to assist the parties in moving forward. It is encouraging that the Prime Minister picked up the phone on Friday night to the leaders of the DUP and Sinn Fein. But would the Minister comment on the suggestion—the point was made in the House of Commons, and I am sure it will be made here as well—that the Prime Minister might be more effective if she were to get on a plane to Belfast herself? History has shown that it has often required direct intervention from the Prime Minister and the Taoiseach to bridge the divide in Belfast. We have the examples of Tony Blair and Sir John Major, who made great efforts when things looked extremely difficult there. It remains unclear why there is a perception that the current run of Conservative Prime Ministers have proved reluctant to take personal responsibility to try and break the deadlock.

In fact, many might believe that the current Prime Minister has a particular duty to be more involved, as it was her decision to call an election which pushed the talks so close to the 12 July commemorations and led to her reliance on the Democratic Unionist Party that other parties have today cited as a factor in the talks. We agree with the Secretary of State that:

“This hiatus cannot simply continue for much longer”.


But I hope we might hear more from the Minister about how the Government intend to bring it to a positive end with the restoration of the Executive. If not greater hands-on engagement by the Prime Minster, as I and others have suggested, does he think there is a role for a new, independent, potentially international chair to come in with fresh eyes and a powerful mandate to support the efforts of the British and Irish Governments? Again I refer to the past, when that has also been an effective means of shifting things.

I note the warning by the Secretary of State that, if a way forward cannot be found, he will have to bring forward budgetary transfers to provide clarity and resources for the Northern Ireland Civil Service. That may well be necessary, and if so, again the Government will have the full co-operation of Her Majesty’s Official Opposition. But I am sure the Minister agrees that it is profoundly unsatisfactory that major decisions about public services and other measures continue to be taken by unelected civil servants, no matter how competent. On the matter of an appropriations Bill, the Minister will be aware that some will see that effectively as a measure of direct rule. I am sure this is a position that the Government wish to avoid, and we urge the Secretary of State to consider all alternatives before we take such a backwards step.

I welcome the decision that the Secretary of State has taken today to legislate for publication of all political loans and donations received by political parties on or after 1 July. That is an important step in normalising the politics of Northern Ireland. Do the Government intend that the thresholds that apply to the publication of donations in the rest of the UK will be those that are applied in Northern Ireland?

This House has played a terrific part in helping peace in Northern Ireland, and I am sure that everyone here will agree that Northern Ireland needs its Assembly and Executive up and running as soon as possible. There is no greater illustration of that than the Brexit negotiations, which we are entering with no real means of Northern Ireland’s voice—the voice of all its communities and traditions, and opinions on Brexit—being heard around the negotiating table. That, I am sure the Minister will agree, cannot be right. All of us, including on this side of the House, must redouble our efforts to see the Executive, and with it the voice of Northern Ireland, strengthened and restored.

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, I too thank the Minister for repeating the Statement and welcome him to his new role—he is certainly starting at an interesting and challenging time for Northern Ireland. I also place on record my tribute to his predecessor, the noble Lord, Lord Dunlop. Given the importance of the issue, however, I wonder why this was not a Prime Ministerial Statement today.

When we last discussed these issues, just before the election, there was a degree of optimism that genuine progress could be made. Indeed, for a time last week, it appeared that good progress was being made. However, with the passing of Thursday’s deadline, and even with the short continuation of talks over the weekend, we once again find ourselves in an impasse. This is an extremely disappointing development, and it is frustrating to watch from here the way in which the two largest parties in Northern Ireland appear to have backed themselves into a corner when there are undoubtedly creative solutions to be found.

The increase in turnout of some 10.6% between the 2016 and 2017 Assembly elections demonstrates the strong commitment of the people of Northern Ireland to devolved government, and I can well understand the frustration of ordinary people in Northern Ireland at this latest setback.

As the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, has already said, there has been no ministerial direction in the devolved departments for a number of months. Decisions on how to allocate budgets are being missed, and all this has a direct impact on public services and jobs. Can the Minister give an indication of how today’s Statement will help to change the dynamics in the talks process? As well as the damage that is being done to Northern Ireland’s economy and public services, it is vital at this time for Northern Ireland to have its own voice in the Brexit negotiations. Can the Minister tell us who speaks for Northern Ireland on Brexit?

The confidence and supply arrangement with the DUP in Westminster has understandably caused concern about how the Government can fulfil their role in independently mediating the Belfast Good Friday agreement. Can the Minister explain how they will demonstrate the “rigorous impartiality” needed, as set out in the Good Friday agreement?

Bringing together my last two points, can he tell us how the voices of all parties in Northern Ireland—including those which won seats in the Assembly in March but do not sit on the Government’s co-ordinating committee—will have their voices heard on the vital issues of governance of Northern Ireland and of the Brexit negotiations?

Although I welcome the introduction of legislation on party donations, does the Minister agree that for the legislation to have the desired effect of returning confidence to the party-political process in Northern Ireland, it should be backdated to 2014? Finally, can the Minister say whether he believes that this is a genuine postponement, or are we just delaying the inevitable?

Northern Ireland: Political Developments

Debate between Lord McAvoy and Baroness Suttie

Tuesday 28th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord McAvoy (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. In keeping with past tradition and practice of a consensus between all the parties regarding Northern Ireland, he and I have a strong relationship which is invaluable in this situation. Bearing in mind that close relationship, I know it will be a great disappointment to him that he must stand before this House again today to inform us that the talks to re-establish an inclusive, devolved Administration at Stormont have not been successful.

On 2 March, the people of Northern Ireland turned out to vote for their representation and for a devolved Assembly that will serve the needs of the whole community. If anyone has any doubt about the expectations, hopes and aspirations of the whole of the people of Northern Ireland, they may find it useful to speak to my noble friend Lady Blood, who is well tuned into opinion. A number of noble Lords throughout this House, especially those from Northern Ireland, will be able to testify to that need of the whole community. We need all the political parties in Northern Ireland collectively to live up to those expectations.

Communities and public services in Northern Ireland are suffering the day-to-day realities of this impasse. The Minister made mention of the health service—a service which is struggling with waiting lists while waiting for political leadership to be back in place. We thank the Minister for notice of the interim measures in place to allocate resources to Northern Ireland departments. We agree with his own statement that this is not sustainable.

I would like to ask the Minister about the talks moving forward. What fresh initiatives will be employed to ensure that the next round of talks are dynamic and make progress? We must ask: what will be different about these talks? Can we encourage, in the strongest possible terms, the importance of prime ministerial involvement in this process? History shows us how important this can be. I am aware of the answer the Secretary of State gave to my honourable friend the Member of Parliament for Blaydon in the other place, that the Prime Minister is involved and is conducting business through the Secretary of State. This is absolutely no reflection on the hard-working attitude of the Secretary of State, but does the Minister agree that we need greater leadership to be shown in the weeks ahead? Is he able to tell us what plans the Government have to ensure that the Prime Minister is even more actively engaged in the process?

We must also ensure high-level, direct engagement from the Irish Government in their role as a guarantor of the Good Friday agreement. Can the Minister update the House on the continuing intervention that the Irish Government have had, and will have, in the process? What options have the Government looked at in dealing with the specific issue of the renewable heat incentive scheme? Has the Secretary of State looked at the financial burden that the scheme placed on the people of Northern Ireland, and are there any options for how this may be more appropriately dealt with?

We in this House are under no illusion that this is easy. But this does not stop us—or, more importantly, the people of Northern Ireland—having high expectations of what must be achieved. We need all engaged parties, including the UK Government and the Irish Government, to ask not “What do we want?” but “What can we give to this process moving forward?”.

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, I, too, will start by thanking the Minister for repeating the Statement to your Lordships’ House this afternoon. I will also say that it is with a very deep sense of regret—despite the very genuine efforts by some—that we have reached this impasse.

Let us be clear: the consequences for Northern Ireland of the failure of the political parties to reach agreement to establish an Executive are very serious. We are days away from the end of the financial year, and yet—as has been said—there is no budget. There has been no vote to set next year’s regional rates. There is no programme of government. This will lead to increased uncertainty for key public services in Northern Ireland such as health and education, and in the voluntary and community sectors.

It is particularly to be regretted that the ordinary people of Northern Ireland find themselves without a voice through an Executive at Stormont at such a critical time. With the triggering of Article 50 tomorrow, this is the very time when the particular needs of Northern Ireland deserve to be clearly heard. There are very real and as yet unresolved concerns for Northern Ireland, not least about how to maintain the open border in the context of the UK leaving the customs union. Can the Minister say what mechanisms the Government intend to put in place to ensure that the views of all political parties in Northern Ireland are heard during the Brexit negotiations? Does he agree that the joint ministerial committee will have a greater role to play in the context of Brexit, and that a more balanced representation of MLAs is needed to reflect the views of Northern Ireland?

Does the Minister further agree that, in the event of the current impasse continuing, a mechanism needs to be found to keep Assembly Members in place and to engage them and their party leaders in discussions on Brexit and other issues? Will he confirm that any such mechanism would require primary legislation?

Given that the RHI scandal was one of the immediate causes of the current crisis, will the Minister confirm that it is his understanding that the inquiry chaired by Judge Coghlin could take as long as six months to complete? Is he confident that Judge Coghlin has the necessary resources to enable a rapid conclusion to the inquiry? However, it is clear that there are deeper problems than the specific issues surrounding RHI. It will therefore be necessary to do things differently in order to secure a deal and to move forwards.

We on these Benches believe that there is no alternative to devolution, but that to achieve agreement will require a renewed commitment on the part of all participants to the talks. We believe that all parties now need to take stock of their position and come back to the negotiating table in a frame of mind to reach an agreement. Does the Minster agree that it is necessary to have a renewed sense of momentum, with clear leadership and full engagement by all political parties? What concrete action are the Government taking to provide the necessary leadership at the highest level at this time?

As former President Bill Clinton said last week, making peace work is an “endless process”. It requires compromise, a cool head, leadership and a desire to put the best interests of all the people of Northern Ireland ahead of narrow political advantage. We sincerely hope that such an attitude will be forthcoming in the next few weeks.

Northern Ireland Assembly Election

Debate between Lord McAvoy and Baroness Suttie

Tuesday 17th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord McAvoy (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement made by the Secretary of State in the other House. I am saddened to be standing here again responding to this Statement after our discussion last week. I know the whole House shares my regret that we have reached this impasse. We can only imagine the disappointment that is felt in communities across Northern Ireland. It has been only 10 months since voters in Northern Ireland went to the polls and in six weeks’ time, on 2 March, they will be asked to do so again. The Secretary of State has fulfilled a statutory duty to call an election where the positions of First Minister and Deputy First Minister are not filled within a seven-day period.

The Secretary of State must recognise, as I am sure he does, that he has a responsibility not only to call an election but to look to the future of Northern Ireland following that vote, and to work with all parties during this period to continue dialogue and ensure a return to strong, stable devolved government in Northern Ireland as soon as possible. I am sure he understands that the negotiations must always be confidential, not broadcast to the world, but to give people hope there have to be signs that the Secretary of State is being proactive in this period of the election. On that theme, what plans does the Secretary of State have to remain in conversation with all parties, as well as the other guarantor for the Belfast agreement and the Stormont agreement—the Irish Government—to continue a dialogue ahead of the days following the election?

The people of Northern Ireland must not be subjected to six weeks of increasingly acrimonious campaigning that leads nowhere. We have no hesitation in supporting the Government’s call for the political parties to remain open to dialogue and to conduct the election with respect, with a view to the future and the challenges they must face together as an Assembly in order to represent the interests of all the people in Northern Ireland.

We realise that the tension of an election campaign will dominate people’s focus and that the news agenda may be centred on other issues today, about which we have just heard in the previous Statement, but we must not lose sight of what is at stake here. This election and the weeks that follow are critical to the future of the devolved Assembly in Northern Ireland, on which peace and prosperity have been based. A political vacuum and empty Assembly Chambers achieve nothing. We and those on all sides of the political debate wish to see continuing peace and prosperity, a growing economy and an improved quality of life for all in Northern Ireland.

We know that the RHI situation was only one part of what has led us here, and that it shed light on many deeper underlying tensions. Communities in Northern Ireland have still not seen enough progress on how we are to deal with the legacy of its unique and painful past and the experiences of victims and their families in Northern Ireland. While we still look for leadership on this sensitive and ongoing issue, each year brings new challenges of its own. Northern Ireland right now is facing the future of our exit from the EU and the specific impact and changes this will bring to this part of the UK, which is uniquely placed in sharing a land border with an EU member state.

Last week the Secretary of State gave assurances that there will be scope for the voice of Northern Ireland to be heard in the continuing run-up to our UK exit negotiations through the joint ministerial council. We seek further assurances that the election will not disrupt this intention, and that all parties are willing to continue to take part in UK exit negotiations.

We need a stable, working, power-sharing Government to move forward with these issues. This will require responsibility, trust and mutual respect on both sides. We have seen over the past decades what the courage and compassion of the Northern Irish people can achieve and, despite setbacks, we continue to have great faith in what can be done.

The UK Government have a responsibility as a co-guarantor of the Good Friday agreement, and we warmly welcome the explicit reference to those commitments in today’s Statement. The Labour Party is ready to do anything it can to assist the Government in the very serious situation they now face. When people go to the polls in a few weeks’ time, they will be voting for representation, for action and for their future. The priority for all Northern Irish parties and for all in Westminster in the weeks ahead must be to live up to the expectations of the Northern Irish people and return to a stable, functioning devolved Assembly.

We firmly agree with the closing sentiment of the Secretary of State’s Statement, and we hope that all parties will rise to that challenge in the weeks ahead.

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, I too thank the Minister for repeating the Statement, and I too very much regret that it has not been possible to find a way through the current crisis.

Northern Ireland has come such a very long way since the dark days of the Troubles. A great many people, including many Members of your Lordships’ House, have worked tirelessly, made sacrifices and accepted compromises to ensure that there is now a generation of young people in Northern Ireland who have grown up without the daily threat from terrorism. Like the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland I very much hope that, after the inevitable cut and thrust of the forthcoming election campaign, we can return full-heartedly to this process.

However, the incident in Poleglass at the weekend, where a viable explosive device was discovered, serves as an all-too-clear reminder that this process cannot be taken for granted. I take a moment to pay tribute to the PSNI officers and the Army bomb disposal team who worked in the area to ensure the safety of the local community.

I share the concern expressed by many in recent days that the forthcoming election campaign risks further entrenching division and increasing mistrust between the political parties in the Assembly. Northern Ireland now faces extremely important and difficult negotiations over Brexit—perhaps more so because of the Statement earlier today.

Now, more than ever, the people of Northern Ireland need a strong, functioning Government to ensure that their voice is heard. To that end, can the Minister guarantee that the Secretary of State will continue to consult all political parties in Northern Ireland on Brexit during the election period? Will he consider convening discussion with all political parties, as well as the wider community, in a format that will allow the proper space for informed thinking and debate to ensure the best outcome for all the people of Northern Ireland in the Brexit negotiations?

Finally, will the Minister ensure that there is no delay in establishing an independent inquiry into the RHI scheme? Such an inquiry is desperately needed to help to restore confidence and trust in politics in Northern Ireland.

Northern Ireland: Political Developments

Debate between Lord McAvoy and Baroness Suttie

Tuesday 10th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord McAvoy (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. This is, as he said, a grave situation, and it is not where any of us want to be.

This House has a long memory and much expertise on its Benches, and we can remember a time when people across Northern Ireland did not know the peace that we see today. There has been a huge amount of progress that inspires hope in Northern Ireland. This was built on the hard work and compassion of the Northern Irish people throughout the community and a great many people across the political divide.

I pay tribute to Sir John Major for his role in a previous Conservative Government in kicking off such discussions. I also pay tribute to the noble Lords, Lord Trimble and Lord Alderdice, for their contribution to the position we have arrived at today. I also thank the many Members of your Lordships’ House who have contributed daily to the good will within the communities and to the peace we have achieved.

For the Labour Party, the Good Friday agreement is one of the greatest legacies of our Labour Government, and the contribution that we made to it was substantial. I am glad to see that my noble friend Lord Murphy of Torfaen is here, because we all remember his terrific contribution to the maintenance of peace in Northern Ireland.

The situation today is a threat to the institutions that peace and reconciliation are based on. The Labour Party has no hesitation in offering its full support and any help that it can give the Secretary of State and the Government in seeking to maintain political stability in Northern Ireland.

We welcome the fact that the Secretary of State is in touch with all the major parties, as well as the Northern Ireland Justice Minister, and that he is in discussion with the Irish Government. We support the aim to facilitate talks and seek a resolution to this impasse before another election becomes inevitable. It may be regarded as a last throw of the dice—as a last resort—but surely, before the seven days is up, the Secretary of State must consider convening a round table of some import with the individuals concerned to have a final go at seizing this situation. However, I totally accept that many people feel that we may be past that point, as the Minister’s Statement made clear.

What discussions has the Secretary of State had about the work that will need to be done to support and stabilise the devolved institutions after the election, if one is called? The Minister referred to the widely held view that an election will change nothing on its own, so what preparation is being made to deal with that set of circumstances and the challenges that might lie ahead?

The Northern Ireland renewable heat incentive scheme was the final catalyst for the events that have brought us here, but the Minister is right to recognise that the situation occurred in the context of existing and far deeper tensions. That context includes a wider failure to resolve issues in dealing with the legacy of the past.

There has been the impression of a political vacuum on this issue in recent months, which has fed instability. I know what goes on behind the scenes, which is not broadcast, but life is about perceptions as well, and the legacy issue has been like a poison feeding into the well of public consciousness in Northern Ireland. I would like to see that work made more visible. What work is under way and what more does the Secretary of State plan to do to earn agreement on a path forward for those coping with the legacy of the past in Northern Ireland?

On the renewable heat incentive scheme, what estimate have the Government made of the cost to the Northern Irish economy of the scheme’s failure? Has the Secretary of State spoken to the major parties in Northern Ireland specifically about setting up a comprehensive and impartial inquiry?

We all want Northern Ireland to look forwards to the future, to prosperity and to an enduring peace agreement. Division gets us nowhere. There are modern challenges facing Northern Ireland, not least of which is ensuring the best deal for the Northern Irish people in the UK’s exit from the European Union. We are at a crucial time for negotiation planning, so I must ask the Minister what impact the Government believe this instability, and a possible election period, will have on the representation of Northern Ireland in talks regarding the UK exit?

The world is watching. As has been said, there is widespread admiration for people on both sides of the community in Northern Ireland, who have come together to ensure peace. The successes after decades of hurt and violence have earned admiration throughout the world. Any damage to the process of peace and reconciliation on our collective watch would be a great discredit to us and a great disservice to the people of Northern Ireland, who I am sure do not relish the thought of a possible election.

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, I, too, thank the Minister for repeating the Statement to your Lordships’ House this evening.

As the Secretary of State has said, the truly peaceful society that we all wish to see in Northern Ireland is intricately bound together with politically stable institutions and a strong economy. It is therefore essential that the people of Northern Ireland have confidence that there is a coherent and collective Government in Stormont—a Government who are open and accountable and working in the best interests of the whole of Northern Ireland.

The stability of the devolved institutions in Northern Ireland is more important now than ever, given the particular challenges that will be presented by Brexit in the coming months. It is clear that cool heads and calm leadership are needed in order to resolve the current difficulties. It is also clear that the crisis reveals deeper problems than the specific issues that have come to the fore in recent weeks. To that end, will the Minister confirm that the Secretary of State will convene immediate talks with all the political parties in Northern Ireland? Will he also ensure that such talks do not just focus on the immediate issues in relation to the RHI scheme but look at measures to improve openness and transparency in the Executive, the Assembly and politics, including transparency in party funding in Northern Ireland?

Although I welcome the Secretary of State’s support for a comprehensive, transparent and impartial inquiry, can the Minister confirm that the Government will ensure that the establishment of this inquiry is not delayed by yesterday’s announcement, and that, if the Executive fail to establish an inquiry, this Government will consider doing so?

Northern Ireland (Stormont Agreement and Implementation Plan) Act 2016 (Independent Reporting Commission) Regulations 2016

Debate between Lord McAvoy and Baroness Suttie

Monday 7th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord McAvoy (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his full explanation of the regulations before us. I thank him and his staff for keeping me fully informed on this legislation from day one. That assistance is greatly appreciated.

The Minister mentioned the paramilitaries and referred to work to remove the breeding ground for unjustified paramilitarism. That is very important. Collectively, we have made huge strides in Northern Ireland and that needs to continue. My honourable friend Vernon Coaker, former shadow Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, is long on record as having called for a commission along the lines illustrated by the Minister. I again place on record our full support for the Government’s efforts in this field. The way in which the Government have sought to involve the Opposition and all Members in this matter indicates the bipartisan nature of attitudes towards issues in Northern Ireland.

A number of questions were asked in Committee in the Commons—I am not taking credit for them; I am just picking them up from Hansard. The questions may have been answered elsewhere by letter, but it would be useful if the Minister could either answer them now or, as did his counterpart in the other place, undertake to write. My honourable friend Stephen Pound asked whether the commission’s reports would be laid before the House and whether it would be an annual process or a one-off. He asked also what attitude the Government had to the cross-community aspect of the commission, whether there would be a deliberate effort to make it cross-community or whether any other methods were being considered. As we all know, all communities in Northern Ireland need to feel that they have a stake in whatever happens.

The Minister in the Commons indicated that he would respond in writing on a number of matters. He indicated that he was not sure whether the reports would be placed in the Library or laid before the House. He continued:

“As for sensitivities around the appointments”—

which we all understand—

“there is a detailed process for making them, and I am happy to explain that in writing”.

In the interest of clarity, will the Minister undertake to write to all noble Lords present tonight with responses to the questions asked in the Commons? Stephen Pound MP asked about the appointment of the chair of the commission. Are any proposals on record yet as to how that would be tackled? I want to make it clear that, like anyone else, I appreciate the sensitivities around these issues in Northern Ireland. I do not ask these questions to embarrass anyone or to cause difficulties for the Government, but clarity is needed and we need to know exactly how the appointments work. The Minister in the Commons, Mr Kris Hopkins, said:

“Again, I will write to the hon. Gentleman about appointments to the commission and how appointees are selected, and will give him that information in full”.—[Official Report, Commons, Delegated Legislation Committee, 2/11/16; col. 6.]

If these questions have been answered in writing by the Minister in the Commons, will the Minister repeat those letters?

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, the Liberal Democrats also welcome the regulations. I thank the Minister for his clear explanation of them to the House.

As this is my first intervention from these Benches on Northern Irish issues—I think there are a few fellow Scots around this evening—I shall keep my remarks brief, but I start by paying tribute to my noble friend Lord Alderdice both in his role as a member on the fresh start panel and in his role as spokesman from these Benches for the past six years. His level of expertise and deep understanding of the issues make him an extremely daunting act to follow.

The Independent Reporting Commission is an important part of the fresh start agreement and its role in reporting annually on progress will be vital in shining a light on continued paramilitary activity in Northern Ireland. It will also play a crucial role in reporting the progress that the Northern Ireland Executive, the UK Government and the Irish Government make in implementing measures to reduce paramilitary activity.

In a democratic society there is no place for paramilitary groups and the violence and criminal acts that they perpetrate. A huge amount of time, energy and commitment has gone into sustaining the peace process in Northern Ireland, and that support needs to continue and be enhanced as we move to the next phase, not least because of the extra pressures that the Brexit negotiations will bring. A permanently peaceful society with politically stable institutions and a strong economy in Northern Ireland are intricately linked. Strengthening the economy, tackling social exclusion, overcoming inequalities, delivering efficiency in public services and tackling violence are all essential elements in challenging the division that exists in Northern Ireland.