Savings (Government Contributions) Bill

Debate between Lord McKenzie of Luton and Baroness Neville-Rolfe

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & 3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords & Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords
Thursday 12th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

As with all impact assessments, it is an estimate. We looked at the Help to Buy ISA, which is similar to the lifetime ISA in that it gives a 25% bonus to support people to buy a first home. That has not led to a surge in opt-outs. Instead, opt-out rates for automatic enrolment are still much lower than the Government expected, as several noble Lords said; they are currently 9%. The overall programme assumption was, I understand, 28%. We will of course regularly monitor the lifetime ISA going forward to make sure that it is achieving its aim—as the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, suggested, and indeed as we do with all important policy areas. But I am not convinced, to respond to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, that we need a formal annual review.

The noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, asked how many people using Help to Save were eligible for automatic enrolment. We set out our expectations of take-up of Help to Save. I am afraid that, as with all forecasts, there is uncertainty, so at this stage we are not able to say how many of these people will also be eligible for automatic enrolment.

Several noble Lords talked about guidance and communication. The Government announced in October 2016 that they plan to replace the three government-sponsored financial guidance providers—the Money Advice Service, the Pensions Advisory Service and Pension Wise—with a new, single financial guidance body, which I welcome. Through creating a single body we intend to make it as easy as possible for consumers to access the help they need to get all their financial questions answered. For example, this could be through helping families to balance their household budget or for individuals considering their options in retirement. Consultation on the precise design of the single guidance body is currently live and closes on 13 February. MAS, TPAS and Pension Wise will continue to provide guidance to consumers until the new body goes live.

The noble Baroness, Lady Drake, raised the issue of pensions tax relief, as did other noble Lords. Our responses to the Treasury’s pensions tax consultation indicated that there was no clear consensus for reform and, therefore, that it was not the right time to undertake fundamental reform to the pensions tax system. But obviously the Government have moved, with the Bill, to encourage younger people to save through the lifetime ISA—and that was a key theme that came out of the consultation.

The noble Baroness, Lady Drake, raised the question of mis-selling risk, which was also a concern of my noble friend Lady Altmann. I agree that it is very important for individuals to have clear information on their products. That is why we will publish factual information about the lifetime ISA on GOV.UK, as well as working with the Money Advice Service and its successor to ensure that they make appropriate and impartial information available. As was said, it is the independent Financial Conduct Authority’s role to regulate account providers, including how they sell a product to consumers. It is currently consulting on the approach and has set out its proposals.

Having said all of that, the communication issue has come up under several different headings. If noble Lords would find it helpful, I will undertake to look through Hansard at the various points that have been made on communication and set out in a letter to noble Lords who have taken part in this debate just what our plans are. That will enable me, for example, to check with the FCA about its current plans and take account of any consultation responses that may already be available. We need to make sure that at the point of sale providers are transparent about risks, including any potential early withdrawal charge and with information on automatic enrolment. That theme came through from almost all noble Lords who spoke. It is a very important area. As has been said, this is a Money Bill, but that does not mean that we cannot set out how we see these things being properly communicated.

The noble Lord, Lord Sharkey, questioned the impact assessment. I understand, from checking with the experts, that it is correct. I was glad that he raised housing because it is an important area. The OBR has noted that the effect of the lifetime ISA on house prices is highly uncertain and its predicted impact is significantly smaller than overall house price movements. As we know, a number of factors can affect house prices, which will be subject to change in future years. For example, we are taking steps to boost housing supply. Following the announcement of £5.3 billion additional investment in housing in the Autumn Statement, we expect to double our annual capital spending on housing during this Parliament. We will publish a housing White Paper shortly, which I hope will address some of the supply issues the noble Lord raised and allow this House to have further exchanges on this incredibly important issue for the future of our economy and our industrial strategy. I believe the lifetime ISA is one way to make sure that first-time buyers have the support they need to get on to the housing ladder.

I will address a number of technical points raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Drake. She asked whether the Government would commit to a 50% participation rate for Help to Save. The Government are not setting any specific target around take-up of Help to Save because we want opening an account to be an active decision by those who feel Help to Save is right for them. However, we will continue to work with the account provider and other interested parties to ensure that people are made aware of the scheme and receive the right support and guidance.

The noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, talked about eligibility for the under-25s. A person aged under 25 is eligible for working tax credit if they work a minimum of 16 hours a week and have a child or a disability—I am learning a lot from this debate. Our intention is to passport people into eligibility for Help to Save. This is a well-established way of targeting support at people on lower incomes. Importantly, it removes the need for people to complete a further means test to prove that they are eligible, which we know could deter people from opening accounts.

[Lord McKenzie of Luton]

Perhaps the Minister will write in due course. There seems to be a disparity between the requirements for universal credit and for working tax credit. In universal credit you must have 16 hours at the national wage. For working tax credit, unless you fall within the disability or childcare categories, you need 30 hours of work. Why have the Government used those particular thresholds?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

It is an important but esoteric point. If I may, I will write to the noble Lord. I am sure that in time I will understand these arrangements better. On his point about saving on behalf of others, individuals will pay into accounts and receive a government bonus. There will be no restrictions on what individuals do with the bonus or savings, or where the money has come from. However, HMRC will carry out additional checks on a number of accounts and will respond to any intelligence it receives from third parties where this gives rise to doubt about a person’s eligibility.

The noble Lord asked about the Government’s latest position on borrowing from lifetime ISAs. The Government continue to consider whether there should be flexibility to borrow funds from an individual’s lifetime ISA without incurring a charge if funds are fully repaid, but have decided that it will not be a feature when it becomes available in April 2017.

The noble Baroness, Lady Drake, said that the Help to Save scheme was not generous enough. On increasing the 50% bonus, our pilots for the saving gateway showed that a higher match rate of 100% made people only 5% more likely to open an account than a 50% match, and the amount of money saved into accounts was not significantly affected. On the two-year bonus period, I can make it clear that no one will be penalised for early withdrawals if they need to make any. The rationale of the scheme is to encourage people to develop a regular savings habit that will last beyond their participation in the scheme because it is valuable more generally.

Trade Union Bill

Debate between Lord McKenzie of Luton and Baroness Neville-Rolfe

Tuesday 23rd February 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

My Lords, these amendments all seek to limit the information published under our transparency regulations by excluding certain types of trade union representative. I start by agreeing with the noble Baronesses, Lady Hayter and Lady Donaghy, about what health and safety and union learning representatives do for their organisations. The debate that we had about the dangers in the NHS, about heavy equipment and about many other areas showed how important health and safety is. Of course, there are duties on employers as well. If you sit on a public body or on a company board, you take these matters very seriously in this country, and that is a good thing. As my noble friend Lord Deben said, we have a strong record, although we always need to keep working at it. He gave examples of where trade union reps are very helpful in enforcing the detail of health and safety, which is so important. As the noble Lord, Lord Monks, said, we have taken our fine traditions in this area to Europe, and that has been important as well.

I also commend the work that the TUC and Unionlearn do right across the public and private sectors in working with adults who lack basic skills in numeracy and literacy, including peer support from union learning representatives.

Those sentiments do not jar with what we are proposing. I say in response to the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie of Luton, an employer must allow union representatives as much paid time off work as is necessary or reasonable to perform their statutory functions and duties, and we are not proposing to change this rule. We simply want to ensure—

[Lord McKenzie of Luton]

If there is no proposal to change the rule, why not take union reps out of Clause 13, even if there is a wish to leave them in Clause 12 on information gathering?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

The answer, which I suppose relates mainly to Clause 12, is that we want to ensure that the time that union representatives collectively spend on union duties and activities during working hours, at taxpayers’ expense, is justifiable and accountable and represents value for money. Clause 12 enables Ministers to make regulations requiring specified public sector employers to publish information relating to facility time for those representatives.

Equally, if the reserve powers in Clause 13 were ever required, they should logically apply to all types of facility time, whatever legislation the rights are granted under and whatever category they fall into in the public sector. In a sense, no area is more immune to attracting inefficient or unaccountable spend than any other type of facility time. Where facility time is found to be at an acceptable level and adds value to the organisation, we expect it to continue, as I have already said. The way that I see it is that the benefits of transparency and accountability do not vary according to the type of work undertaken by, or designation of, a union representative engaged on facility time.

Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Bill

Debate between Lord McKenzie of Luton and Baroness Neville-Rolfe

Wednesday 14th January 2015 Grand Committee

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Neville-Rolfe) (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, and to the noble Lords, Lord Mendelsohn and Lord Stevenson, for tabling these amendments and giving us the opportunity to debate how these clauses interact with other legislative duties on contracting authorities, which is the nub of this amendment. I also share the noble Lord’s appreciation of the fact that my noble friend Lord Young of Graffham has joined us. I take this opportunity to thank him for all he has done for small firms and for public procurement throughout his distinguished career, and latterly as the Prime Minister’s adviser. My noble friend explained the background but, given the concern expressed by the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie of Luton, perhaps I could add, on the subject of the changes to pre-qualification questionnaires, that these could disadvantage procurements where there are important special requirements. As my noble friend Lord Young explained, we want to remove burdensome PQQs. However, I understand that special requirements can still be built into contract advertisements or the invitation to tender.

For the benefit of the Committee, perhaps I could stand back and try briefly to answer my noble friend Lord Hodgson’s exam question about what we are trying to achieve. I reassure noble Lords that our intentions are focused and more specific than the amendments tabled and the comments made would suggest. While regulations we may make under the Bill should improve standards across the public sector, they will not remove the autonomy of local authorities to run their own processes and take responsibility for procurement decisions. I associate myself with some of the warm words used by the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, about local authorities. I was glad to hear about the LGA’s work on procurement strategy because I know, from my many dealings with it over the years, that it comes to issues with an innovative and refreshing approach.

The clauses before us will allow the Government to place some additional obligations on contracting authorities about how they undertake their procurement processes. However, I assure noble Lords that this is not about taking control away from local government procurers, who will remain responsible for securing value for money. Moreover, when making regulations under Clause 38, the Government will ensure that the provisions of other legislation are properly considered and that the regulations do not conflict with them. Frankly, the last thing we would want is to be over- bureaucratic or Napoleonic, in the words of the noble Lord, Lord Whitty. Like my noble friend Lord Hodgson, we would like to see better, simpler documentation that makes contracts more accessible to small business and voluntary organisations. As my noble friend says, we need to bring in standards and yardsticks of good practice, although I am not sure that “comply and explain” would necessarily quite work here.

Turning to Amendment 35D, the Government are committed to both the Localism Act and the Public Services (Social Value) Act. We stand by the principles in those Acts. It is of course important for local authorities to be able to pursue legitimate policies that help suppliers win more business through procurement in support of their local economies. There is, however, a balance to be struck and EU procurement law, which we have implemented in our domestic legislation, places a duty on contracting authorities to ensure that procurements that are above the EU thresholds—essentially, £111,000 in central government and £172,000 outside it—or of cross-border interest, are awarded in a fair, transparent and non-discriminatory way.

To respond to a question that was asked, Clause 38 is not necessary to implement the directive. This is in fact being done under powers in the European Communities Act 1972—I can see that the noble Lord understands that—and we will be bringing forward regulations very shortly. The new Public Contracts Regulations 2015, implementing the EU procurement directive, will make it clear how contracting authorities can achieve policy through procurement in a legitimate way. The regulations will require that the policy to be delivered through procurement is linked to the subject matter of the contract, as well as satisfying the EU principles of fairness, transparency and non-discrimination.

Furthermore, having consulted on the use of the power in Clause 38, we have identified a number of examples on how we might use its regulation-making power. It may help if I mention one or two of those because they might help to meet some of the concerns expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Whitty. One example is of requiring awareness-raising as part of pre-procurement market engagement, which can of course help small businesses; another would be requiring procurement authorities to have due regard to lean procurement principles. This will increase efficiency and reduce timescales. Some of your Lordships will be familiar with these principles, particularly those who have worked in business. I have direct experience of using them on a clothing supply chain exercise to good effect. Of course, it was Dan Jones who did the original pioneering work on lean thinking in the automotive supply chain, which helped our industry to fight back.

We undertook an open consultation on these proposals and there was support from local government and the Local Government Association. The outcome of the consultation is published on the Cabinet Office website and this includes draft regulations to illustrate how we might use the power. The planned uses are complementary to the forthcoming Public Contracts Regulations that I mentioned. They also complement the existing best value duty created by the Local Government Act 1999, as well as the duties created by the Localism Act 2011 and Public Services (Social Value) Act 2012. We have placed the draft regulations illustrating the use of the power in the Library of the House. The noble Lord has obviously already seen them, but others may not have done.

This is not about centralising procurement. It is about ensuring that high-quality procurement processes are in place across the public sector. We are also looking to establish common standards of good practice, as the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, was encouraging us to do. The noble Lord, Lord Whitty, suggested that we might be able to deal with this through guidance, but I am afraid that in this area guidance will not be sufficient on its own. The power that we are taking will allow the Government to make targeted changes over time and to place legal obligations on contracting authorities in relation to the procurement functions. I hope that that provides some reassurance and an understanding that this clause will not undermine the localism agenda.

On Amendments 35E and 35T, while we strongly support the aims of best value to make sure that contracting authorities consider overall value, including economic, environmental and social value, when reviewing service provision, we consider that there is scope to improve procurement processes and open up opportunities to smaller businesses. The need to improve procurement processes is supported by findings made by our mystery shopper service, which investigates concerns about procurement throughout the public sector. This service has found that over a third of all its new cases relate to concerns with poor procurement practices by local authorities. Therefore, excluding all local authorities from the scope of the regulation-making power and from the scope of the mystery shopper service would mean that we were not able to help local authorities to improve their procurement practices and investigate mistakes. Nor would we be able to help small business to achieve the share in procurement that we all want them to have.

The additional obligations placed on contracting authorities will be proportionate. We are also clear that they are not intended to take control away from local government procurers, who will remain responsible for securing value for money. Retaining the scope of Clause 39 to include local authorities is necessary to help us to continue to improve procurement practices.

To turn to Amendments 35S and 35X, the Government are, as I said, wholly committed to principles that support development of economic and social issues and which are designed to allow contracting authorities to take account of how their decisions affect local business, the local area, the environment and social value considerations. The amendments are not necessary, as Clauses 38 and 39 do not amend or undermine the Localism Act, the Local Government Act or the Public Services (Social Value) Act. The power in Clause 38 cannot be used to amend these Acts or any other primary legislation. While I do not believe that the amendments are required, I am pleased to reassure noble Lords that, when making regulations under Clause 38, the Government will ensure that the provisions of legislation, including these Acts, are properly considered.

Finally, turning to Amendment 35K, I understand the noble Lord’s wish to see contracting authorities report on how they have met their duties under the Public Services (Social Value) Act. However, we do not wish to pre-empt the review of the Act launched in September 2014 and carried out by a panel led by my noble friend Lord Young, which is due to report in the coming weeks. The review is giving detailed scrutiny to the 2012 Act and is considering whether it should be extended and how it might be extended in a way that continues to help small business. The review may make a number of findings and recommendations and obviously it would not be right to second-guess those findings.

I hope that, in the light of these various reassurances, noble Lords will agree not to press their amendments.

[Lord McKenzie of Luton]

My Lords, I start by thanking the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Rolfe, for her detailed response. Listening carefully to what she said, I am a bit bemused as to why she feels unable to accept the amendments. There is nothing in them that conflicts with what she has said is the Government’s position. On Amendment 35K, I take the point that if the noble Lord, Lord Young, is in the process of undertaking a review, the wording might pre-empt that. From what the Minister said on timing, I hope that we will have the opportunity to revisit that on Report, as we will have the noble Lord’s report by then.

Can the Minister be more specific on what the problem is with Amendment 35D? If the Government support localism and the Public Services (Social Value) Act 2012, the amendment would simply ensure that due regard is given to the new powers in Clause 38, which are extensive, as my noble friend Lord Whitty said. On the reference to lean principles on procurement, what evidence can the Minister provide that that process has been successful in enhancing SMEs’ share of the public procurement process? That is important and it would be interesting to hear the Minister’s response.

The noble Lord, Lord Young of Graffham, gave us a first-hand exposition of why we have ended up here. My noble friend has further amendments on PQQs, which might be the opportunity to explore that.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

Perhaps I may say a few things. First, the noble Lord asked why we could not accept the amendments. The difficulty is that we cannot accept amendments without legal effect. I shall think about what he is saying but that seems to be a problem. Secondly, he rightly reminds me that he asked about lean thinking in relation to local government. I do not know the answer today but it is a fair question and we will come back to him.