Railway 200

Lord McLoughlin Excerpts

Thursday 31st October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

The Leamside line is one of many projects—I have already had a question about the Midlands Rail Hub—that are part of the review commissioned by the Secretary of State for Transport. We need to allocate the funding we have for railways in the best possible way. The comprehensive review she has commissioned will seek to do just that.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the department’s contribution to the 200-year anniversary. Will the Minister acknowledge that we have seen massive growth on the railways over the past 20 years, with passenger journeys going up from 700 million to 1.8 billion before the Covid pandemic? What is the Government’s plan to see them continue to grow? That growth has been brought about by bringing in the private sector.

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

We all recognise the growth in passenger traffic on the railways in the past 20 years. There are many reasons for it. Sadly, post Covid, the railway has less patronage than it did and certainly less income than it did, so the Government’s proposals for a reformed railway have to address the issues on the railway as they are now, not what happened in the past.

HS2: Purchased Land

Lord McLoughlin Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend for his supplementary question. As reported by the National Audit Office, by March 2024 £2.3 billion had been spent on phase 2 which, as he says, was cancelled by the previous Government. No property on the hastily cancelled phase 2a has yet been disposed of. The Government are carefully considering what to do. He will know as I do that railway infrastructure lasts 150 or more years, so the right thing is to have a considered long-term plan for the benefit of the economic growth, jobs and housing in this country.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, nobody knows better than the Minister the importance of capacity as far as that rail line is concerned—particularly the capacity from Handsacre to Crewe, the legislation for which has already gone through this House. Is there a time limit on that legislation, as there sometimes is on planning permissions, or does that legislation stand good for a Government who wish to concern themselves seriously with a capacity that is so vital on our railways, if we are to shift freight from road to rail?

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for his question, and I recognise, as he does, the capacity limitations of the west coast main line north of Handsacre. There is a time limit; I cannot offhand say what it is, but I can certainly write to the noble Lord. The Government intend to work out what to do and to say what they will do before any expiry of those powers.

HS2

Lord McLoughlin Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

We will review the National Audit Office’s report, which is a report on the status of the project as it was left under the previous Government. We will have to do that before setting out more detailed plans. Personally, I am aware of the disparity in seats created by the present planned service pattern on HS2 following the cancellation of phase 2a. We will have more to say about that in the future.

In respect of the Barnett formula, heavy rail is reserved in Wales, so any heavy rail scheme that the department delivers should always be classified as England and Wales when applying the Barnett formula. That includes HS2. It is a different situation in Scotland and Northern Ireland. The Scottish Government and Northern Ireland Executive, under their devolved policy areas, do therefore receive Barnett-based funding. This is consistent with the funding arrangements for all other policy areas reserved in Wales but devolved in Scotland and Northern Ireland. That said, due to use of departmental comparability factors in the Barnett formula at spending reviews, the Welsh Government have received a significant uplift in their Barnett-based funding due to the UK Government’s spending on HS2.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

The Government are committed to building HS2 up to Handsacre. Is the Minister satisfied that there is sufficient capacity beyond Handsacre up to Crewe, given what the new line will deliver to the country, and will he bear this in mind in his review?

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord McLoughlin, for his knowledge of the geography of the national railway network; I am aware of it myself. We will certainly have to bear that in mind with the review of the project as it now stands.

Mail Carriage by Rail

Lord McLoughlin Excerpts

Monday 22nd July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

In congratulating and welcoming the Minister to his place—a man who will probably be giving advice to his civil servants rather than the other way around—I would like to ask him about the long-term plans for freight on the railways. What extra measures does he envisage taking, bearing in mind the serious capacity issues that have just been referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Grocott?

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

I welcome the comments from the noble Lord, Lord McLoughlin. It is important that rail freight increases, but the noble Lord is correct in referring to capacity problems on some parts of the network. There are two things to do. First, historically the freight companies have a number of paths that they do not use and never have done, which are getting in the way of running more passenger trains. Secondly, in return, the Government’s emphasis on the carriage of more freight by rail demands us to look carefully at the capacity of the railway and facilitate the paths that are needed for modern freight, particularly containers and bulk aggregates, in order that traffic can increase.

Lower Thames Crossing: Development Consent

Lord McLoughlin Excerpts

Monday 29th April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

I know the crossing well and I am very conscious of the issues around it. It is a large infrastructure project, so we must get it right.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, the simple fact is that this is one of the largest planning applications that has been put before this country; I believe it runs to more than 359,000 pages of requirements. Perhaps my noble friend can reassure us that, following this project, there will be a review of the way in which planning applications are handled. It is very reassuring to hear people from Liberal and Labour Benches say that it should be facilitated much faster. I am not sure whether the local Liberal party has been as supportive of this project as the Liberal Benches in this House seem to be today.

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

It is a huge project at £800 million, and the current most likely cost of the project is estimated to be £8.3 billion. I will take the noble Lord’s comments regarding planning back to the department.

Transport System: Failings

Lord McLoughlin Excerpts

Thursday 25th April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Snape, on securing this debate and on managing to tee up his party to make its major announcement on rail today. It is a great achievement.

It is a privilege to see the noble Lord, Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill, in the Chamber today. He is somebody who has done a huge amount for rail and transport infrastructure in the United Kingdom. I was very pleased that he was appointed as chairman of Network Rail. In fact, it was my appointment, so I was delighted to be able to do that.

I declare my interest as chairman of Transport for the North and as someone who thinks that strategic transport bodies have importance. I do not have a lot of time to talk too much about that today.

This debate has fallen into the trap we so often fall into when we talk about transport, because transport is not about just the rail industry. Today’s debate has been dominated by speeches about railways from nearly all Peers, apart from my noble friend Lord Holmes, who mentioned Network Rail only in passing, right at the end of his speech—I congratulate him on that. Naturally, railways are very important to our transport system, but I am glad that certain people have made reference to buses, and I certainly hope to do so too.

There is no doubt that transport is the artery of any economy. It gets people to work, children to school and food to shops. Everyone depends on it every day. When transport slows, everything slows; when transport stops, everything stops. We saw an example of that during the pandemic, to which quite a few of the problems we face today relate. We almost forget that, just four years ago, the country was virtually at a standstill because of the pandemic. But lots of things are changing in the transport world.

There have been a lot of attacks on privatisation today. It is worth bearing in mind that, before privatisation, there were 700 million journeys a year on our railways; the year before the pandemic, there were 1.8 billion journeys on our railways. We have seen a revolution in the rail industry: it does far more and serves far more people. That happened because private finance was brought into the rail industry, and we were no longer completely reliant on what the Treasury said and did not say. There have been a lot of attacks today on the Treasury, so I say: be careful what you wish for because, if you wholly nationalise, the people who will take back control will be not the Department for Transport but His Majesty’s Treasury. So one should be a little cautious about what one asks for. On the idea that open access will somehow be allowed to continue, with all the other operators being nationalised and operated from the centre, it will be interesting to see how that develops in the longer term.

I very much regret the Government’s decision on stopping HS2. Unfortunately, HS2 became a discussion about speed, but it was never about speed; it was about capacity on our network and freeing up a lot more room for other services on it. Two metro mayors, Andy Street and Andy Burnham, commissioned a report from David Higgins on what a future Government will do, and it will be interesting to see that, whatever happens after a general election. I slightly warn people: I remember that, when I was first elected to the House of Commons, I was told by the BBC that it had done an exit poll in my constituency and I had lost. The returning officer told me otherwise. From that day onwards, I have always believed that the returning officer is a bit more authoritative on election results. Given that, let us be careful about what we see as the future of the rail industry.

The other interesting growth and important change that has taken place is the growth of metro mayors and their importance as far as their impact on transport and transport policy is concerned. As I say, Andy Street and Andy Burnham commissioned work from Sir David Higgins about what should happen as a result of terminating HS2 at Handsacre, and it will be interesting to see exactly what happens with that under any future Government.

On some of the points made earlier about buses, I say that buses are incredibly important to our transport system. I congratulate the Government on the £2 fare cap that they brought in. It has seen patronage start to rise and more people using buses. It is due to end on 31 December this year. A few other things will take place between now and then that may preoccupy parties’ minds, but, if this does end, it will be a very retrograde step for the bus industry. I hope my noble friend on the Front Bench can relay the message to the Secretary of State that this should be extended at least to the end of the financial year, so that people are not starting to think now about what they might do if that £2 fare cap were removed.

There was an interesting story in the Times a few weeks ago about how much has already been spent before any decision on the lower Thames crossing has been made:

“National Highways, which manages the strategic road network, has spent more than £267 million on the application alone, while overall spending on the project has surpassed £800 million”


before a spade has been put in the ground. We need to look carefully at how we do long-term planning for these big infrastructure projects. I think we have got the system wrong.

I can see my time has come to an end, so I say to my noble friend on the Front Bench that transport is about not just the railways but a lot of other subjects that we have not had time to talk fully about today.

East Coast Main Line

Lord McLoughlin Excerpts

Wednesday 24th January 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as chairman of Transport for the North. Some of the difficult decisions that have had to be taken have been partly because of the upgrading of the trans-Pennine route, which is a huge investment as far as the Government are concerned over the next few years. Will my noble friend assure us that the planned upgrade for York station, which will allow greater capacity eventually to serve areas such as Berwick-upon-Tweed, is in the Government’s future plans?

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

A lot of these changes to the trans-Pennine route are part of the Making Journeys Better plan, outlining how TransPennine Express under DfT OLR Holdings will work to make things better. Having completed an in-depth review of the business, these services are expected to be restored from December 2024. I will have to come back to my noble friend on his question about the railway station.

Rail Fares

Lord McLoughlin Excerpts

Monday 27th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

Not on this occasion. My Lords, we are focusing on delivering for passengers and customers by integrating new opportunities, such as, as I said earlier, the recently announced £36 billion of funding for Network North, fares and ticketing reform and improving accessibility, as well as delivering the £44 billion settlement for Network Rail to support the safe and efficient running of the network for customers between 2024 and 2029. Securing a slot for pre-legislative scrutiny of the draft rail reform Bill demonstrates the Government’s real commitment to our railways.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome my noble friend to his post. I have some sympathy with him as far as rail ticketing is concerned, because everybody thinks it should be reformed if it means they get cheaper tickets. The simple fact is that as long as the Treasury has the control that it does over the rail companies, which is greater now than it has ever been, through the department, then we will not make much progress on this matter. When does he expect to see the results of LNER’s experiment? Does he think this can be rolled out more quickly than presently planned?

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

I hope that this can be rolled out as quickly as it possibly can be, but again, I am afraid I cannot give a definitive answer at this point.

HS2 Ltd: Costs

Lord McLoughlin Excerpts

Wednesday 25th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

Will my noble friend assure the House that there is no need for another inquiry into HS2? If anything, there should be an inquiry into how many inquiries there have been into HS2 over the course of its life. However, perhaps an inquiry into the way that the decision was made to not continue with the rest of HS2 would be appropriate. The company for HS2, the Department for Transport and the Treasury will always have the National Audit Office operating and keeping a watchful eye on them, as was made so clear by the chairman of the Public Accounts Committee, Meg Hillier, just a few days ago. I declare my interest as a former Secretary of State for Transport.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I cautiously agree with my noble friend that there have been an enormous number of inquiries into HS2 over time. However, so many of them were needed, and indeed will continue to be so. There is an enormous amount of scrutiny of HS2 Ltd, not only from the Public Accounts Committee, where the senior responsible officer, the Permanent Secretary, appears and will appear next month, but from the Transport Select Committee, the committee of your Lordships’ House, and other bodies such as the National Audit Office. I am sure that their scrutiny will continue, and rightly so.

Transport: Zero-emission Vehicles, Drivers and HS2

Lord McLoughlin Excerpts

Tuesday 17th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I do not know for sure, but I imagine that work on the business case will have already started. All these projects are at some point in the whole business case process, which, as the noble Baroness will know, is very lengthy. We are very committed to the upgrade of the north Wales line. It is completely due, and it is our ambition to work with Network Rail and other delivery partners to make sure that we do it in the most effective way.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as chairman of Transport for the North. I say to my noble friend that I realise the position she faces defending this decision. For the last 13 years, any Minister standing at the Dispatch Box would have been saying why HS2 was, in fact, the right decision. Big transport infrastructure projects are always incredibly difficult. They are never without controversy and this scheme certainly was not.

I believe that the scheme, as originally designed, was the right one. I find it ironic that I could go from London to Paris, Brussels or Amsterdam on a high-speed train, but I cannot do the same for the great cities of the United Kingdom. It is an argument I made as Secretary of State, and I am not going to deflect from it now. I believe that overall it was the right decision for United Kingdom plc.

However, my noble friend keeps referring to the work that will carry on with the metro mayors. It is a great pity that they were not consulted before this decision was made. I find it rather ironic that, on the Tuesday the Prime Minister was telling us all that he was not going to be rushed into a decision, but then he made it a major part of his conference speech on the Wednesday. I have been involved in prime ministerial conference speeches in the past, and they are not usually put together in the last few hours before delivery.

Can my noble friend tell us now that we are going to get every transport plan we ever wanted because we have freed the schemes and we will see a utopia as far as transport is concerned? Some of this money seems to be going into revenue rather than capital investment, which is an interesting thing to see eventually on the department’s accounts.

This is not going to go away. A lot of people have been affected by this particular scheme and have had things compulsorily purchased for HS2 which are no longer going to be wanted. I do not think we will have heard the last of some of the problems that will be facing us as far as HS2 is concerned over the next 12 or 18 months, or even the next two years. This is something that is going to continue.

Ministers can point to Birmingham and say what HS2 is doing for Birmingham. I am sorry that that is not going to be done for our other great cities. That is a regretful notion that we will come to think and talk about. However, we have to make sure there is greater connectivity between our great northern cities, because there is a potential that is untapped. It needs tapping if the United Kingdom is truly going to be a country of equal opportunities across all of its regions.

That is what I hope will happen over the next few months. A decision has been made, and it does not look like the Official Opposition will say they will reverse it. If they did say that, it might change some of the argument, but they are not doing so yet. That also needs to be borne in mind. The implications of what has been announced will take some time to debate, and it will take time for the full ramifications to become known.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am grateful to my noble friend. I note his reflections and, to be honest, I share his disappointment to some extent, but I accept the decision. He made some valid points about the challenges that still face the HS2 project as a whole, and I agree: there are no major infrastructure projects that do not have significant challenges. But it is heartening to know that the Government are beefing up the governance arrangements of HS2 Ltd. A new chief executive is being recruited, and Sir Jon Thompson, the new chair who took his place in February, is very much involved in the recruitment to make sure that we get the right person to take the project forward.

My noble friend mentioned that there is some switch from capital to revenue—that always makes a Transport Minister excited because we do get much revenue funding in transport—but it is still mostly capital, of course, because we are talking about capital spend. This is an opportunity to mention one other piece of good news that I have not been able to mention to date: the “Get Around for £2” bus fare cap has been extended to the end of December. Again, that is revenue spend, and it is being used by millions of users. It has been really well received, and I am very pleased that we have been able to extend it.