Mesothelioma Lump Sum Payments (Conditions and Amounts) (Amendment) Regulations 2026

Lord Palmer of Childs Hill Excerpts

Monday 2nd March 2026 Grand Committee

[Lord Mann (Lab)]

My Lords, I wish to make a couple of remarks in relation to these statutory instruments. It is a long time since the pneumoconiosis compensation schemes were brought in—so long that a photo that I was shown on Friday of a very youthful now Minister was remarkably recognisable, but not because of the length of time that has transpired. In my very first case as a Member of Parliament, at 10 in the evening on my very first day, I went to meet someone who was dying that night of mesothelioma. It was, I suppose, rewarding to be able to help push through the changes and improvements that were made a few years later.

I have two points to make. The first is that we call these social security payments, but they are social society—industrial disease—payments. Governments—and, therefore, this Government—are missing a trick. When we talk about the benefits bill, we should extract compensation for industrial disease as a separate element. That is not a benefit; it is something that pays people for the difficulties—with mesothelioma leading to death— caused by exposure that should never have happened. The fact is that there are still cases. Agriculture is a good example of where not all asbestos has been cleared out. Some industries were quicker and better organised than others. There are still schools with asbestos tucked away in all corners.

The people who were working in the collieries, shipbuilding, foundries, the baking industry and others were having to breathe in this stuff. There were sometimes asbestos gloves that they were using routinely as part of their work—then they struggled to breathe in later life. Compensation is not a benefit; it is a right. That should be extracted out and separately categorised in the statistics, so the taxpayer can see the cost of negligence by multiple employers, including—and often particularly—government over many decades.

The second point is more practical. I have been in Parliament since 2001, in one House or other, and we have had Government after Government all repeatedly talking about saving red tape and bureaucracy. I have a proposal on red tape on bureaucracy. Why are we wasting taxpayers’ money every year—on the time, involvement and work—to update something that could be updated by a little change to legislation automatically? There is no controversy in the idea that there is more accountability for diseases that are now recognised across the House as a problem, a danger and a legacy that needs to be addressed. Why are we wasting any money and time, rather than having an automatic annual increase? I put to the Minister that this would be a small but appropriate removal of red tape and bureaucracy. While it is a minor saving to the taxpayer, the principle of it seems nevertheless to be an appropriate one. I see no sufferer from these scourges objecting to an automatic increase every year.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Mann, for that personal information. I obviously agree with these statutory instruments; it would be strange if we did not—but it is industrial compensation rather than a benefit, and it ought to be recognised as such. Could the Minister quantify the 3.8%? I am not very happy with us just being quoted figures in terms of percentages. What is the general amount being paid, and how much does 3.8% thereof amount to? Percentages mean 3.8% of zero is zero, to take it to the very level.

Could the Minister also talk about the current occupations that give rise to these two dreadful—let us call them—diseases? They are dust related. Many industries have in many ways stopped the dust coming from their products. To deal with the point rightly raised by the noble Lord, Lord Mann, in terms of it being annual rather than just having a continuation, I speak against that, because I would rather that we increased the amount each year or considered and put forward an increase, rather than just have an automatic, modest increase, which might take no account of real values.

I agree with the 3.8%, but ask what it means in practice and whether the Minister could tell us what industries and occupations are giving rise to these dreadful diseases.

[Lord Jones (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for her masterly summation of these most welcome regulations, yet again—some of us here are the usual suspects in debate—for having some little insight as to what they mean for our communities and from whence they came as legislative devices.

In a long Westminster stay in both Houses, I have not encountered such mastery, sincerity, persuasiveness and enthusiasm from a ministerial, oppositional or advisory role in any of many committees on which I have served greater than that of the Minister. It has always been expert, committed and long-standing, from a parliamentary servant who has been at the elbow of a Prime Minister and a Chancellor of the Exchequer. It is a wonderful record of duty and expertise. The standing of this Mother of Parliaments has fallen low, but my noble friend Lady Sherlock still reaches the heights.

Primarily, these regulations centre on two great industries—and there are others. I have in mind slate and coal, quarrying and mining, both of which are in steep decline with minimal activity nowadays, but they are important to many individuals and for families. They represent great humanity, suffering and anxiety about what we know of as the dust. We debate it here, of necessity, each year in Grand Committee. Could we not just once debate on the Floor of your Lordships’ House? That would indicate an understanding of the impact of these diseases on our major communities and far-flung settlements. I recollect watching an aged former Prime Minister, Harold Macmillan, the Earl of Stockton, in your Lordships’ House making a spirited and critical speech to his own Government’s Benches. He paid moving tribute to the miners and steelmen who he said had made the difference in two World Wars, defeating first the Kaiser and secondly Adolf Hitler.

All industries come with health challenges. In these regulations, the department gives much detail, which is always welcome. Do we know how many individuals are receiving payments for both mesothelioma and pneumoconiosis? I think for certain that the increases in all payments will be welcomed when the cost of living is increasingly an issue.

Finally, I observed in the other place the distant origin of these health and safety matters. There were two great Acts in Prime Minister Harold Wilson’s third Administration. It was in 1975, I think. One was employment law, and the other was health and safety. The Secretary of State for Employment was one Michael Foot, then Member for Ebbw Vale. These legislative activities were all-night sittings, time and again. As he piloted his measures through, I recollect sitting alongside him alone at 3 am on the Front Bench in a near-empty Chamber. It was hard going. He prevailed, and the measures are social history, historic in themselves. Later, in Mr Callaghan’s Administration, the Government were without a majority and with their life ebbing away amid a winter of discontent, but plans were made to cover these terrible diseases of industrial life. I recollect the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, and the late Lord Ells-Thomas being very active on the subject of quarrying in their homeland as Members of Parliament, along with Cledwyn Hughes, then the Parliamentary Labour Party chair and later Lord Cledwyn of Penhros and Leader of the House of Lords. Another MP, a Minister like me, was Harold Walker, who was soon to be Lord Walker of Doncaster.

My own role included visiting two key players for the quarrymen and their needs. One was Mr Tom Jones, an officer of the Transport and General Workers’ Union, and the other a retired solicitor and former Member of Parliament, whose name was Jones, too. These two were detail men, and they formed the details that led to the legislation that has led to regulations such as these. I recommended solicitor Jones to Lord Cledwyn for an honour, and it happened—a knighthood, indeed.