Children’s Wellbeing and Schools Bill

Debate between Lord Sentamu and Lord Wigley

Tuesday 20th May 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sentamu (CB)]

I was not going to speak, but I sat through the Second Reading and it was long. We have had some of the same speeches again—not put in the same way, but the phraseology is going in that direction.

The mover of proposed new Clause 1 was actually very good at making sure that she was using active verbs. I do not like passive ones—I go for the active ones. What are they? “Improve”, “improve”, “improve” and “make provision”. If you are dealing with children, the legislation needs to tell us that there are some things that we want to do—and of course, with them, not alone. For that reason, I want to support the Bill.

I say to my dear friend, the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, that I love his way of speaking and he is very persuasive, but I do not understand why he thinks that paragraph (c) applies simply to Wales. The improvement will be in England and Wales, because the legislation will apply to England and Wales. Of course, there will be questions in the Parliament there and they will be talking about it, but the Bill as it stands is for schools in England and Wales.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords—

[Lord Sentamu (CB)]

I will soon sit down, so the noble Lord need not worry; I will tell him when I am about to sit down so that he can speak before I stop.

I love the new clause and I support it, but the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, gave us a warning, and I hope we heard his experience, not only in Sheffield but when he was Secretary of State for Education. There are things we could do throughout the Bill without laboriously going through 200 pages of amendments. This amendment paper is as big as the Bill itself. On the football Bill, I nearly lost the will to live because there were so many amendments. The guy or woman who is actually going to do the work at my little club, York, has my sympathy. I used to support Manchester United, but I told noble Lords at Second Reading why I no longer do so. Friends, could we not do better than laboriously go through every amendment that is proposed?

Some of the amendments are good. I definitely support those of the noble Baroness, Lady Barran, because there are things in them that I can take away, but I am not so sure where some of the others are going. I am about to sit down, so the noble Lord can have his say.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

I am very grateful. The point I was making was about the application of this legislation to a subject that is devolved. We need clarity in the Senedd in Cardiff, which nominally has responsibility—and factually has had responsibility up to now—for education in schools in Wales. If an introductory clause like this brings in the whole gamut of being governed from Westminster, there is a lack of clarity which must undermine devolution. All I am looking for is clarity, and I think the noble and right reverend Lord will understand that.