Strikes (Minimum Service Levels: Passenger Railway Services) Regulations 2023

Debate between Lord Snape and Baroness Randerson

Wednesday 6th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Snape (Lab)]

My Lords, my criticism of the proposed legislation is a quite simple one: it will not work. I listened to the Minister who, I have to say, went through his brief faster than any train I have been on recently. It is not a new idea. It was considered by the Thatcher Government and rejected. It was considered by the Cameron Government and rejected. It will not work. The problem is that this has been put together by lawyers who have no concept of how the railway industry actually works, or how train crews are rostered and how people are laid down for their various duties. The rostering of train crews is done at local level. The management and the local district committee—the shop stewards, if you like—sit down at every timetable change in May and December to decide the future rosters. The trade union side will obviously not sit down and discuss rostering under this minimum service level. As for choosing the name “minimum service level”, what else have we had in the railway industry for some time but a minimum service level?

It is not just the Labour Party and the trade union movement that are against this. The Rail Safety and Standards Board has said that it has considerable reservations about rail safety in future. That is not an organisation that one would normally regard as particularly left wing in its outlook. What the Government are proposing will poison industrial relations within the railway industry for years to come.

I have a couple of questions for the Minister. What happens if a minimum service level driver is rostered and declines to pass through a picket line at a particular depot? Will the Minister prosecute the driver or the trade union of which he is a member? The chance of conflict because of this barmy legislation cannot be emphasised too much. I said earlier—I do not wish to detain the House—that it is not just the Labour Party against it. I commend the Minister to read a paper prepared by Nicholas Finney OBE for the Centre for Policy Studies, that well-known left-wing organisation. He attacked the whole concept because, like me, he says it will not work. Maybe he will be regarded as a destructive member of British society. He is, or was, the chairman of the Wantage Conservative association, so if someone like him feels that this legislation is impractical, the Minister really ought to look again.

I am almost speechless at the stupidity of the Government bringing forward this legislation. I repeat that it will poison industrial relations within the railway industry for years to come, and I beseech the Minister even at this late hour to take some proper advice and not to make this into a lawyer’s dream.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, I support the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Liddle. I regard these regulations as even more inappropriate than the other sets of regulations that we have just discussed, and even more clearly designed just to provoke an adverse reaction from the workers concerned.

In the previous regulations, the Government relied on the argument that the workers concerned—border security staff and ambulance staff—provide an irreplaceable service. The same is not true of railways. If the trains are not running we can usually catch a bus instead, or maybe drive. Obviously rail strikes have an economic impact, but it is not of the same order as that caused by ambulance or border staff strikes. You take away the right to strike only in extreme circumstances, and these are not extreme circumstances.

The Transport Committee in the other House, which is chaired by a Conservative MP and has a Conservative majority, has criticised these regulations and the Government’s plans for the railways. It questioned whether those plans would do anything to improve relations with rail employees—I think we can more or less answer that question here. The committee questioned whether there might be unintended consequences, in that this could lead to other, more disruptive forms of industrial action, such as wildcat strikes. It also asked whether minimum service levels would lead to better service for customers than that already provided by train operating companies on strike days. It was deeply unimpressed by, and expressed its dissatisfaction with, the Government’s one-sentence answer to its suggestions.

Tomorrow, as the Minister will undoubtedly be aware, is strike day on Great Western Railway. As on previous strike days, we regular travellers are informed that a minimum one-hourly service will be provided between 7 am and 7 pm. In my experience, when the company says that a train will run at a particular time, it generally adheres to that timetable—which is not always what we get on our railways these days. So a minimum service is already being provided.

Another obvious concern is that, as the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, said, rail services are extremely complex, with major impacts of one part of the service on other parts of the service, and an obvious interaction with devolved services. Providing a safe minimum service level is therefore very complex. As the Transport Committee noted, the Government have not provided the necessary detail on how they will provide the safe level of service required. In particular, the operation of signal services is so specialised that the provisions will effectively mean that individual staff will have to be specified as being required to work, if a minimum service is to be provided. In other words, those staff will have the right to strike removed from them. In effect, they will lose their rights.

This is bad legislation, badly planned—and so far, as attempted by the Government, badly implemented. I am fairly certain that it will do absolutely nothing to improve either the services for rail passengers or the situation of our train operating companies, which are fighting to provide a reasonable service in difficult circumstances.

Bus Funding

Debate between Lord Snape and Baroness Randerson

Wednesday 17th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her Statement. She puts on a brave face, but it is a very sad picture on buses. Anyone who was out campaigning in the recent local elections will know that the poor state of bus services was at the top of people’s complaints about local things. When you explain to people that local authorities actually have little power over the buses in their area—of course, this should be put right—they are surprised by that lack of influence, but it does not stop them being worried about this.

I am pleased to see that the Government are looking beyond the end of the next month, at a longer-term funding plan. I am pleased to see that amounts of money are specified here, so we will be able to hold the Government accountable on how, where and how effectively this money is spent. But it is a lot less than we hoped— I remember the sentence in Bus Back Better about the aim that you would not need a bus timetable.

I have some specific questions about this, because it is important that it is used as well as possible. How much of the money specified in this announcement will be targeted at the rollout of zero-emission vehicles? The figures I looked at recently showed that, although there had been some progress in developing a zero-emission fleet, it was very variable from one part of the country to another and it was still a tiny fraction of the total fleet.

Also, I am pleased to see that the money in the new funding will be focused on communities that did not previously benefit from BSIP allocations. One of the criticisms we made was that those areas with the most vestigial—if I can put it that way—and smallest bus services were not in a position to apply for the funding, so the funding went to areas with better bus services. I would be grateful if the Minister could explain how the Government will ensure that the funding goes to those most disadvantaged communities. I use the word “disadvantaged” in relation to bus services.

I am very pleased to see that local authorities will be consulted as well as bus operators. The previous criticism I mentioned was that the new funding was going to be impossible to access for areas with very little in the way of bus services. If the Government are to spread it out more fairly, what will they do to enable those areas that no longer have the expertise in their local authorities to make the applications?

The Statement goes on to the issue of the £2 bus fare cap, which is good news. However, one of the problems with it is that, although one welcomes the take-up, it was very uneven from one area to another—some bus companies did not bother to take it up as an offer. What are the Government doing to learn from their experience so far? The Government are obviously keen to develop and use this further—that is laudable—but what are they doing to ensure that there is wider adoption, with more bus companies using it and more local authorities adopting it?

What analysis have the Government made about the people using the buses in the areas where the £2 bus fare was applied? There is anecdotal evidence about the numbers of people using it who were already using the buses anyway and are now getting cheaper fares. That is great for them, but one of the Government’s aims was to attract more people on to the buses. It would be useful to learn whether the Government have done any analysis to see what type of passenger this approach is attracting.

Finally, the beginning of the Statement says that the Government will come back to the issue of concessionary fares. There is no deep analysis in the Statement of how they will get more older people back on to the buses. They clearly left during the pandemic and have not returned in sufficient numbers. Personally, I find it very worrying that they are still not getting out and about.

[Lord Snape (Lab)]

My Lords—

High Speed Rail (West Midlands-Crewe) Bill

Debate between Lord Snape and Baroness Randerson

Committee stage & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords & Committee: 2nd sitting : House of Lords & Committee: 2nd sitting
Thursday 12th November 2020 Grand Committee

[Lord Snape (Lab)]

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Berkeley persuaded me to add my name to this amendment. Having listened to the debate so far, I do not owe him any favours. I suppose that we should congratulate the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, on his comprehensive knowledge of these matters. He mentioned the Crossrail Bill, which I served on. Fortunately, we did not get involved in the realms of the Party Wall etc. Act at the time, which is perhaps surprising. It also enabled my noble friend Lord Berkeley to return to another of the many other bees in his bonnet, which is the early part of HS1 between Old Oak Common and Euston. I do not think that that has taken the Committee any further forward as far as the debate is concerned.

I have two questions for the Minister. First, why was this particular schedule added to the Bill, bearing in mind the rural nature of the line that we are supposedly discussing, phase 2a of HS2? I repeat that no mention was made of any party wall difficulties during the passage of the Bill through the Select Committee. Perhaps the noble Earl can tell us how many properties he thinks will be affected by Schedule 23 if it is included in the Bill. However, it seems to me that we could be discussing the vagaries of the property world for some considerable time without taking forward the Bill that we should be discussing, which covers phase 2a of HS2.

[Baroness Randerson (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I will not take long, but I want to say simply that when a noble Lord raises an issue of this complexity and technical detail, it deserves to be taken very seriously. While I fully realise that the issue is not really appropriate for debate in Grand Committee because it is much too technical and detailed to encompass within the form of our debates, that does not mean that it is not important. Therefore, I ask the Minister to make sure that when she has had her meeting with the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, about the issues concerned she will set out in some form the outcome of those discussions in a letter to all noble Lords who are participating in this part of the debate today.