G8 and NATO Summits

Debate between Lord Strathclyde and Lord Higgins

Wednesday 23rd May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, I thank the noble and gallant Lord for his question about France. It is true that the French President has called for the drawdown of French combat troops by the end of this year, and that is to happen. However, the Government and the rest of NATO are entirely confident that we can make up the shortfall and that there will be no detriment to the mission.

[Lord Higgins]

My Lords, if the Prime Minister is to protect Britain’s interests in the eurozone crisis, is it not essential that he should express a view on the situation, particularly with regard to the need for adequate contingency plans? Should the summit not have recognised that Greece has both a debt crisis and an exchange rate crisis? However much one delays and prays for time by bailing out to solve the debt crisis, it does not solve the exchange rate crisis. That is absolutely essential if we are to find a long-term solution, since it is clearly inconceivable that Greece will become competitive at the present exchange rate. Therefore, should we not be unashamed to express views on this issue, even though we may at times seem critical of what happened at the summit, to ensure that proper contingency plans are made?

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, whatever happens, the UK Government are going ahead with their contingency plans to deal with the full horizon of eventualities. However, what my noble friend said is in direct contrast to what the noble Lord, Lord Soley, just said. I lean rather more towards my noble friend Lord Higgins. Decisiveness and strong action by all Governments are required, whether that is strong action to deal with the deficit or dealing with the banks to calm the markets. Greece faces an extraordinary crisis, which is shared by the rest of the eurozone countries. It is important that there should be clarity so that, as my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has said, we do not allow the can to be kicked further down the road with an inconclusive outcome.

Arrangement of Business

Debate between Lord Strathclyde and Lord Higgins

Thursday 26th April 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, that would not be in the best traditions of the House.

[Lord Higgins]

Could my noble friend simply explain, since we have not had an explanation and I do not understand the point, why we cannot debate it on Tuesday as well?

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, I have tried to say, first, that it is entirely well precedented to have 60 speakers in one day. Secondly, it is likely that we will prorogue on Tuesday, subject to the progress of business, although we will not be able to make an announcement on that until we have completed the passage of the Sunday Trading (London Olympic Games and Paralympic Games) Bill.

Welfare Reform Bill

Debate between Lord Strathclyde and Lord Higgins

Tuesday 14th February 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Higgins]

My Lords, it is extremely helpful of the Leader of the House to set out the position so clearly, and it is what I have always understood it to be. May I make one practical point? The amendment comes back from the other place, privilege having been claimed. The convention is that one does not send back an amendment which is likely to invite the same response. The trouble is that the simple point which is made when they claim privilege is “We can’t afford it”, and one might send back an amendment which costs somewhat less. We do not know whether they “can’t afford it” to the extent that such an amendment would be acceptable. Therefore, it may be quite reasonable for this House, if it gets back an amendment that has been rejected on grounds of financial privilege, which effectively says that we cannot afford it, to send an amendment back that would cost less than the one that was originally proposed.

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, I am very pleased that I have taken the opportunity this afternoon to clarify something that I know a lot of Peers feel strongly about, particularly former Members of another place. Given that since the general election more than 100 Peers have joined this House, it is worth from time to time re-explaining some of the reasons behind the relationship that exists between the two Houses. I say respectfully to the noble Lord, Lord Morgan, with all his historical perspective, that he may well be right that it has not been a seamless web since the 17th century. But the settlement has been very much recognised and has worked respectfully between the two Chambers over the past 100 years, not least during the course of the Labour Government since 1997.

I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, as Leader of the Opposition. I understand that there has been widespread comment in legal, academic and constitutional circles, although it has not always been accurate. But I hope that part of what I have laid out today will help those outside commentators to understand the position as I see it and as I believe the House of Commons does. It is a long-standing convention, for reasons which are entirely obvious, that the two Houses do not debate each other’s internal procedures. I am not entirely sure what would be gained by having a further debate on this. After all, today we have a very full House and we have had a useful and interesting debate on this issue.

In everything that I have said and that we are doing this afternoon, there is no extension to the issue of legal privilege. As I said in my opening remarks, the situation is exactly as the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, when she was Leader of the House, laid out in 2009. Nothing has changed. That is why I join with my noble friend Lord Tyler in being somewhat bemused about the noble Baroness’s view on House of Commons privilege. I was rather hoping that she would leap to her Dispatch Box and agree with every word that I had said, at least on the basis that I had agreed with everything she had said. I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Laming, the Convenor of the Cross Benches, for his important intervention.

Let me clarify one aspect of this. As the Clerk of the Parliaments put it in his 2009 paper, until the Commons asserts its privilege, the Lords is fully entitled to debate and agree to amendments with privilege implications. It is right that we should have the ability to do so, not least because it allows the Minister to give the Government’s point of view. That will continue and rightly should continue.

It is always good to hear from former Speakers of the House of Commons and I am indebted to the noble Baroness, Lady Boothroyd, who harked back to an age when there was clearly more flexibility and more discussions in the usual channels in the 1990s. Of course, my noble friend Lord Naseby explained about the ways and means.

Perhaps I may confirm to the noble Baroness that there is no threat to this House in terms of its powers and role. To respond to my noble friend Lord Fowler at the same time, the only purpose in having the Bill on reform of the House of Lords and debating that reform is that this House should be reformed only if it can be more assertive, stronger and better able to hold the Government to account and if it can challenge the views of the House of Commons. Otherwise, why on earth would we bother with all of this?

EU Council

Debate between Lord Strathclyde and Lord Higgins

Tuesday 31st January 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Strathclyde]

Very much so, my Lords. We want to see the completion of a single market and the digital economy. It is not arrogant to say that the United Kingdom has been at the forefront of the growth agenda. It is Britain that has been pointing out the dangers of overcentralisation, overbureaucratising, and overexpensive institutions that militate against the interests of the free market that will in the long term provide the jobs we need, not just in this country but throughout Europe.

[Lord Higgins]

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the Prime Minister is absolutely right not to join the proposed new treaty and to distinguish it from the existing treaty? Is he not also right to say that it is essential for the eurozone to sort out its problems? The problem with doing that has been that it has confused the debt problem with the exchange rate problem. The reality as far as Greece, for example, is concerned is that it is inconceivable that it will become competitive at the present exchange rate, however much it is bailed out. There is therefore no way that these matters will be solved until certainly Greece, and perhaps others—one must hope not—leave the eurozone. It is crucial that if they do so, the period of transition should be as brief as possible. The difficulty is that we do not have available in terms of notes and coins a currency that will enable such countries to leave, quite apart from the dreadful problems there will be in the transition over the need to impose exchange controls, which one must doubt the Greek Government’s ability to do. Until that side of things is sorted out, no amount of bailout or fiscal co-ordination will solve the problems of the eurozone.

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, I welcome my noble friend’s words on the principle of the position we took yesterday at the informal Council. As to what he said about the desirability of the eurozone solving its problems, I completely agree and that is very much one of the reasons why what happened yesterday happened. However, some of my noble friend’s analysis is not really a matter for me or the British Government, although we wish the euro well. These matters will no doubt be taken up within the eurozone. There are real challenges for countries such as Greece and, within the eurozone, the balance of trade between different countries. They have chosen a route along which they wish to try to solve this matter, and we should wish them well in their attempt to do so.

Draft House of Lords Reform Bill

Debate between Lord Strathclyde and Lord Higgins

Tuesday 20th December 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Strathclyde]

That, notwithstanding the Resolution of this House of 6 July, it be an instruction to the Joint Committee on the Draft House of Lords Reform Bill that it should report on the draft Bill by 27 March 2012.

[Lord Higgins]

My Lords, I suggest to my noble friend that some explanation of this Motion might be of interest to the House.

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, of the many Motions that I have moved in the House, I would have thought that this one would be almost entirely self-explanatory. The House will remember that last July both Houses of Parliament agreed to the creation of a Joint Committee of both Houses to examine the Government’s draft Bill on the future reform of the House of Lords. In that Motion, the Joint Committee was due to report by March 2012. At that time, a number of questions were raised about whether the Joint Committee would be able to report in that time, and I indicated that if it wished to have an extension it would be able to ask for one. A few weeks ago, the noble Lord, Lord Richard, the chairman of the Joint Committee, wrote to me and indicated that it would need some more time and suggested the date of 27 March. All this Motion does is extend the time available to the Joint Committee by about a month to take us to 27 March 2012. I hope that that is a sufficient explanation of the Motion before us.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Strathclyde and Lord Higgins

Wednesday 16th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Higgins]

My Lords, is it not becoming rather ridiculous that we still have not had a debate on the crisis in the eurozone? Perhaps the expression “fiddling while Rome burns” would be appropriate in this context. The usual debate on the Chancellor’s normal Statement is not really a substitute for a debate on the crisis in the eurozone. We need to debate both.

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, I am very grateful to my noble friend the government Chief Whip, who tells me that there is a debate planned on the eurozone on 1 December.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Strathclyde and Lord Higgins

Thursday 3rd November 2011 Lords Chamber

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Strathclyde)]

My Lords, I beg to move the Motion standing in my name on the Order Paper.

[Lord Higgins]

My Lords, parliamentary-related business will prevent me being present for the second debate this afternoon, which in any case is very limited in both scope and time. Would my noble friend consider very carefully the need for us to have a major debate on the crisis in the eurozone?

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, I was present in the House when my noble friend raised this point yesterday. I am very sorry, as I suspect many noble Lords are, that they will not be able to hear my noble friend speak, with all his experience and knowledge on this subject. This is of course a matter for the usual channels and we shall give it the most urgent consideration.

Distribution of Dormant Account Money (Apportionment) Order 2011

Debate between Lord Strathclyde and Lord Higgins

Monday 11th July 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Higgins]

My Lords, might I raise a point that is perhaps of general interest? When a matter is debated in the Moses Room and the Minister is unable to give a full reply and promises to write and place a copy of the answer in the Library, should that not be done before the matter returns to the Floor of the House? Perhaps my noble friend the Leader of the House might consider that point, otherwise when the order comes back to the Floor, we will not know what view we ought to take on it.

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Strathclyde)]

My Lords, perhaps I may take the opportunity of answering. I would always regard that to be the normal course of practice, and if it did not happen, I would very much like it to be brought to my attention.

European Council

Debate between Lord Strathclyde and Lord Higgins

Monday 21st June 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Higgins]

My Lords, I welcome the forthright attitude taken by the Prime Minister regarding the eurozone, but clearly the situation there presents considerable risks to the United Kingdom, even though we are not a member of the euro. Are we to understand that there was no detailed discussion at the Council on the widespread discussions taking place outside on the possibility that some members of the eurozone might find themselves in a position whereby they have to withdraw? Indeed, it has recently been suggested that it might be disruptive in that context if Germany were to withdraw, rather than the countries in the weakest position. At all events, the scheme was designed to prevent people withdrawing and it is important that we should not hide our heads in the sand regarding that possibility and we should make contingency plans. In particular, there is a major practical problem. Is there not perhaps some case for setting up a contingency fund of what we might call euro-exit notes and coins, which would be used if a particular country had to withdraw? Surely it is better that we should plan for that possibility, whatever our position might be on whether it is likely to happen, rather than suddenly finding that we are in a situation where nothing can be done because of the practical point that I mentioned.

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, my noble friend raises an important and interesting issue. The eurozone is of course extremely important to the British economy. We want a strong and competitive eurozone area, but it is clear to anyone who has been following this subject in recent months that there are substantial problems with the euro and, most notably, with Greece. However, I am not in a position to speculate in any way on what may or may not happen in any other eurozone country or, indeed, on what contingency plans are envisaged over the next few months. The G20 has recognised that countries with serious fiscal challenges need to accelerate the pace of consolidation. In that regard, we welcome the recent announcements of further consolidation plans by the Governments of Spain and Portugal. It is important that to rebuild confidence all Governments implement in a rigorous manner the measures that they have announced. It is that confidence which will provide strength again to the eurozone. That in the long term will be to all our benefits.