Brexit: United Kingdom-European Union Parliamentary Assembly

Debate between Lord Tebbit and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Wednesday 12th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the noble Baroness makes an extremely valid point: that better exchange of information leads to better understanding in negotiations. That is why, as Ministers, we have not only engaged thoroughly with our counterparts around the European Union but encouraged Select Committee visits. I know that those visits have been thorough, and if they have been to the European Parliament, they have been supported by the secretariat and the European Parliament. The worst thing is for newspaper articles to appear giving misleading information, not necessarily intentionally but just because we have not had the opportunity to discuss with colleagues the real issues.

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree, on the proposal of the noble Lord, Lord Soley, that most of us can recognise what the Americans call a boondoggle when we see one? Secondly, would she be so kind as to instruct the Liberal Benches that this Parliament in this country can dismiss the Executive? Can the European Parliament dismiss the Executive?

[Lord Tebbit]

I do not think there is any record of it yet. It can sack the Commission? Oh, no.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I find it very interesting that when I have travelled around the world as a Minister I have met Ministers who have never appeared in Parliament and never had to answer questions in Parliament. For me, it is a vital part of parliamentary accountability. But there are also occasions, I know as a Member of Parliament, when as a Minister you could get your finger caught in the nut and the screw.

Brexit: EU Institution Relocations

Debate between Lord Tebbit and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Thursday 6th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I would not know anything about fetishes. I certainly know quite a lot more about the need to ensure that this House is well informed. That is what I shall seek to do about the way the Government engage in negotiations. The noble Baroness raised an important point: we must ensure that we have security and safety in the healthcare system. That is exactly what my right honourable friends Greg Clark and Jeremy Hunt were doing this week when they set out the principles on which we will work with the regulatory system across Europe and the role that we can play there. The precise description of that is yet to come but they were not saying that it would be the European Court of Justice that made the ultimate decision. Clearly, regulations are important for safety.

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend not find it as disappointing as I do, as an indication of the failure of our education system, that so many people, even in this House, are utterly ignorant of the fact that the United Kingdom ran its own affairs very successfully for a very long time when most of Europe was in a constant turmoil of revolutions, coups and the like? Of course we can manage on our own. We do not need their court of justice to educate us in justice.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, as a history teacher, I certainly learned that this country has a proud history and one that we should recall. It is one that our young people today can carry forward because they have great ability, and we have the duty to ensure that their great ability can be put to best use for this country.

Syria: President al-Assad

Debate between Lord Tebbit and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Wednesday 1st February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I repeat that our position and policy have not changed. What the Foreign Secretary was trying to say, in his inimitable manner, to the Select Committee is that in the real world it is for the Syrians to decide. It is their decision; it is not for us to impose a solution on them. That has been our position throughout. With regard to the shape of any constitution, we would not wish to dictate that. It is for the Syrian people to be given an opportunity to discuss how that may be achieved.

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that I agree with her very much that it is not for us to decide who should be the President of Syria? But surely, once we take the step of saying who should not be the President, we are in effect transgressing against that very good principle that she just set out.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I said that President Assad has shown that he cannot be trusted. He has led to the deaths of something like 400,000 of his own people, has put tens of thousands in detention— I have met some of those who have experienced torture at the hands of people there—and has failed to provide a secure future for his country without the air power of countries such as Iran and Russia. That is somebody whom we do not see as being capable of providing a political solution and providing peace. However, what we are doing, and continue to do, through the UN Geneva process is to provide the opportunity for the Syrians to decide this matter. Whatever our view is, it is for the Syrians to decide.

Commonwealth Countries and Overseas Territories: European Union

Debate between Lord Tebbit and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Tuesday 14th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, that is indeed the point which has been made by the leaders of all the Commonwealth countries.

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

My Lords, when my noble friend answers questions from the House, does she do so in the name of the whole of the Government, or only that faction which wishes to remain in the EU?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, as is constitutionally correct, and has been agreed by the Prime Minister at a Cabinet meeting—which I attended—when I speak from the Dispatch Box I speak for the whole Government.

Turkey

Debate between Lord Tebbit and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 13th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, we certainly make representations to Turkey on the importance of maintaining human rights, and point out that any attack on human rights sets back its progress towards any hope of access to the European Union, as the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, set out a moment ago.

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend acknowledge the plight of many Turkish citizens who will find that the requirements of our conventions of human rights conflict in many ways with their ideal of how their society should be constructed and operated?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, it is important that any state that wishes to be a member of the European Union abides by generally accepted norms of human rights. That is something I fight for not only as a Minister but as a human being.

European Union: United Kingdom Membership

Debate between Lord Tebbit and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 23rd May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, indeed, the EU complements and strengthens NATO, rather than weakens it. The current holder of the position of NATO Secretary-General, Jens Stoltenberg, said only last month:

“We also see the importance of the United Kingdom being so supportive both inside NATO and inside the European Union, promoting increased cooperation between NATO and the European Union”.

He made the point that,

“a more fragmented Europe is bad for our security and it’s bad for NATO”.

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

My Lords, would my noble friend not agree that the definition of a dictatorship is a country where people cannot sack the Government, make their own laws, or decide their own levels of taxation? Which is the democratic organisation in Brussels? Is it the one headed by Herr Juncker? We have had trouble with Junkers in this country before—I remember in my schooldays being bombed by them. Is it not true that this country is a democracy but the European Union is not, because we cannot sack people like Juncker?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the European Union is united in the sense that it is 28 democratic countries. This Government are determined that the golden thread of good governance should run throughout not just the United Kingdom but the rest of the European Union.

Burma

Debate between Lord Tebbit and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Tuesday 15th September 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Tebbit]

My Lords, does my noble friend recollect that a couple of years ago, in this House, our noble friend Lord Lawson observed that a prerequisite of a democracy to work was that there should have been the rule of law for 100 years? Does she think that that is so, and, if so, has it been established yet in Burma?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I have just arrived here from launching the Magna Carta partnerships, which is a new FCO fund to promote the rule of law. I thank my noble friend for raising that point. I am impatient: 100 years would be too long to wait for the rule of law in Burma or elsewhere. We all, as parliamentarians, have a role to play. Our voices can ring out around the world. Let us make sure they do.

Syria

Debate between Lord Tebbit and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Wednesday 18th March 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, would that Assad would join in slaying the wolf on his doorstep—indeed, within his house. As the Prime Minister has made clear, he is a recruiting agent for ISIL. He is the one who is barrel-bombing the moderates, while ISIL is allowed to flourish within Syria in Raqqa. That is no way for him to proceed.

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend recollect that the Blair Government gave their great strength to the demolition of the regime in Iraq and the overthrow there. Now, this Government seem to be intent on overthrowing Assad, following the success of overthrowing the regime in Libya. Who has benefited in Libya or in Iraq from the overthrow of those rather unpleasant Governments and their replacement by something infinitely worse?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, it is important for all Governments, of whatever party they may be, to try to work for peace across the most troubled areas. Where there is good intent, there is not always an immediate good outcome. There is good intent now, we have agreement across the parties that we should proceed to seek peace, and that is what we shall do.

Nigeria

Debate between Lord Tebbit and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 12th January 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

I entirely agree with the noble and right reverend Lord’s assessment of the situation. The economy of Nigeria is the largest in Africa currently, and if it were not so beset by corruption and by difficulties in administration—if I can put it that way—Nigeria would have a thriving economy. It clearly does not. It spends 20% of its budget on security, yet the security forces have great difficulty in facing and containing Boko Haram. We have ensured that there is technical assistance and advice; indeed, we have ongoing projects with the army to ensure that it can build up resilience over the coming years to try to defeat Boko Haram and that, having done that, Nigeria has an army capable of preventing a recurrence.

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

Would my noble friend not agree that what we are seeing is largely a continuation of the civil wars of the early 1980s in Nigeria, when the Hausas, who are mainly Muslim, were in conflict with the mainly Christian and pagan Igbos and Rivers people? This is now exacerbated both by the corruption of the Nigerian Government and the new spirit of the vicious Islamic group Boko Haram. Is there any help which we can sensibly offer to Nigeria, other than military help, to help its incompetent army defeat Boko Haram? Are we in any position to offer military help?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, we have made it clear that we are not going to become militarily involved in Nigeria with our own troops, but we have done everything reasonable to provide advice and assistance to the army there. We have ongoing projects to provide it with expertise and training. My noble friend referred in particular to the history of the area. However, Boko Haram is something new, not just in the utter viciousness with which it behaves but in the way that it is Muslim against Muslim—not Sunni against Shia but members of the same group against each other. These people have no thought about what one’s religion is. If you are in their way and they want your land, they will kill you.

Arrangement of Business

Debate between Lord Tebbit and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Thursday 16th June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Tebbit]

My Lords, while my noble friend must have taken a great deal of effort to avoid using the words pot, kettle and black, during the noble Lord’s remarks, she should take it on board that it is a great pity that this Administration appear to be following the example of the previous Government by introducing too much legislation that has not been adequately thought through. It is a bad habit that was formed over the previous 10 years or so and we should be resisting it, not continuing it.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, it might be appropriate for me to be permitted to answer the questions as they are put. That might be helpful. I know that the noble Baroness, Lady Farrington, will of course have the opportunity to ask a question.

My noble friend has long experience in government. He will know that all Governments have to listen and learn and I will certainly do that.