Pandemic Preparedness

Debate between Lord Turnberg and Lord Markham

Monday 15th April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Turnberg (Lab)]

My Lords, some years ago, when I was chairman of the Public Health Laboratory Service, we had 31 public health laboratories dotted around the country. Their role was to track and trace the sources of infections. We lost those in a review of the Public Health Laboratory Service, and I resigned as a result of that. What a loss that has been. What efforts are being made now to replace those laboratories which can do the track and trace that we desperately need?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

As the noble Lord mentions, one of the key pillars is having diagnostic capability. The noble Lord will be aware that, for the sequencing of all the different Covid strands, it was the UK that they were sent to because our diagnostic and sequencing ability is second to none. I am assured that that capability still exists and, with that, our ability to scale up diagnostic testing very quickly.

Cancer: Staffing

Debate between Lord Turnberg and Lord Markham

Thursday 14th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

As I mentioned, that was very much the big feature of the discussion that I had with the president of the Royal College of Radiologists just the other day. We have been growing the number of radiographers by about 3% every year, which is a good rate, and we look to increase that even further. The CDCs are about that. However, the actual demand is increasing by about 5% every year. Clearly, as well as recruitment, we need to make sure that we have effective diagnosis, and this is where the field of AI is very exciting. The radiographers are 100% behind it, because they really see the revolutionary effect it is bringing.

[Lord Turnberg (Lab)]

My Lords, we are certainly shortly of staff, and the problem is not increasing recruitment but enhancing retention. Staff are leaving because they are disillusioned and disaffected, and we do not treat them well enough. Any large business knows that, if you have a happy workforce, it will be productive. We certainly do not have that in the NHS. We certainly need to stop this dismissive attitude and enhance the conditions of their service, and it is not simply about pay. Does he agree?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I totally agree that it is a range of things. I completely agree with the noble Lord that a good employer should be looking to make sure that employees have good working conditions and feel valued, and that there is an understanding culture in the workplace as well as decent pay. I say all this in the context that the workforce in the cancer space has actually increased by 56% since 2010, so it is not as if there have not been massive increases here. The actual number of treatments and diagnoses has gone up by more than 20% from pre-pandemic levels. So we are doing a lot in this space, but I agree with the noble Lord’s basic premise that we need to ensure that staff feel valued so they will want to carry on working.

Care Home Staffing

Debate between Lord Turnberg and Lord Markham

Thursday 18th January 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

My noble friend is correct that the recruitment of personal carers is harder. I know that this is close to his heart. I can probably serve him best by giving him a written reply setting out the details of what we are doing.

[Lord Turnberg (Lab)]

My Lords, to make this an attractive job for a care worker, we have to not only give them a pay rise above the national living wage, which is their basic pay, but make this into a profession. If they are professionals, they will then have a career structure that is recognised nationally. Will the Minister encourage that development?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Yes, I totally agree. That is why we announced this career pathway last week, to try to do exactly what the noble Lord is talking about. It has been welcomed; I quoted from ADASS, but a number of other bodies have welcomed what we are trying to do. We aim to do what the noble Lord said: to make it a profession that people really want to join. There are qualifications for it, advancement and apprenticeships, which are all part of setting up a career structure.

NHS App: Medical Records

Debate between Lord Turnberg and Lord Markham

Tuesday 19th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

My noble friend is correct. As the noble Lord, Lord Allan, said, there are many good uses for the app and data. As we all probably know, AI is only as good as the data that underlies it. The good situation we have—it is lovely to have a story for Christmas cheer—is that our 50 million primary care and hospital records are probably second to none around the world. We are already using that to positive effect, such as for image reading and using AI for cancer scans and strokes. We can also use that data for intelligent screening and, in future, for cause and effect to find cures, hopefully one day even for dementia.

[Lord Turnberg (Lab)]

While it is obviously important to control confidentiality of patient data, it is vital to be able to use data for medical research. Much research, such as epidemiological research, the relationship between smoking and ill health—obesity, diabetes and all sorts of diseases—would not be known much about unless we were able to handle patient data. In the rush to control, let us make sure we can still do research with patient data.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Absolutely; it is about getting that balance correct. I welcomed the support of all sides of the House when we were introducing the FDP. A lot of work was done with noble Lords on that. The fact that the federated data platform was as well received as it was in the circumstances is because of support from all Members of the House on all sides, knowing the vital role of data in improving health outcomes.

Cancer Research UK Report

Debate between Lord Turnberg and Lord Markham

Tuesday 5th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I do not think that the Government have come to a view but I understand the point. I will take that back to the department and the Treasury.

[Lord Turnberg (Lab)]

My Lords, we are doing reasonably well with certain cancers—leukaemias and breast cancer—but very badly with pancreatic cancer and colon cancer. Most of these are asymptomatic for a long while, until it is too late. We desperately need a test that will indicate that there is a disease coming. What research is being done in this area and what money is being spent on it?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

The noble Lord is absolutely correct that, while we have made good progress in many areas, pancreatic cancer is the hardest one and one where we need to do more. That is true all around the world, because the symptoms are so hard to detect. I will happily write with the details to give him an answer on that.

Sexually Transmitted Infections

Debate between Lord Turnberg and Lord Markham

Tuesday 5th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

We are leading the world in all these areas. In a recent survey across the European nations, we came out top in sexual and reproductive health services, which I want on the record. Just last week, everything that we are doing in the HIV space was recognised as part of all this. This is another area in which we are looking to widen access as much as possible. I mentioned the examples of an online service in Brighton and, to the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, Pharmacy First. We are looking to make sure that access and testing are as widely available as possible.

[Lord Turnberg (Lab)]

My Lords, chlamydia is a cause of infertility. A vaccine has been developed and is in use. How far have we got with the programme of vaccination against chlamydia in both boys and girls?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

The noble Lord is correct: about 50% of all cases are of chlamydia, and it is undetectable in a lot of people. That is why we have started screening programmes of chlamydia in women, so that it can be picked up when it has been undetected, which we know can be done. As the noble Lord mentioned, we have a programme of chlamydia vaccinations for both females and males. From memory, I think the rate of boys vaccinated is about 30%, but I will come back in writing with the exact numbers.

General Practitioners: Recruitment and Retention

Debate between Lord Turnberg and Lord Markham

Monday 12th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

My noble friend makes a good point: if we are investing eight years in training, in the case of a GP, to ensure that they are at the top of their profession, so to speak, it is reasonable to expect them to work for a number of years in the UK so as to make good on that investment.

[Lord Turnberg (Lab)]

My Lords, one way of encouraging retention would be to relieve GPs of the burden of having to manage their service by making them salaried employees. How far have we got with that proposal?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I actually think the partner model works very well for a lot of people and has been the bedrock of our GP service, as we know, since the beginning of the NHS. However, what is critically important is reducing the admin so that GPs can get more face-to-face time. Again, at Greystone House surgery in Redhill on Friday, I saw excellent examples of where those admin duties are being taken away so that doctors can do what they want—and are best trained—to do, which is face-to-face treatment of patients.

Osteoporosis: Early Detection

Debate between Lord Turnberg and Lord Markham

Thursday 19th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

As a player of rugby, which probably has far too many impacts, I agree with the sentiment that exercise is always a good thing, whatever stage of life one is at. Also, we all know that vitamin D is a vital part of helping against bone weaknesses. Things as simple as spending more time in the sun in summer or taking vitamin D supplements in the winter are vital prevention methods. I agree about exercise, but all these measures should be rewarded and promoted.

[Lord Turnberg (Lab)]

I am sorry to correct the Minister but vitamin D does not affect osteoporosis. It is helpful for osteomalacia, the softening of the bones due to vitamin D deficiency, but not very useful for osteoporosis. Exercise is valuable, and at any age it is the only thing that prevents osteoporosis. There are treatments available for osteoporosis but they are not very nice—they involve injections—and are quite expensive. Exercise is the thing.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord. As I say, part of the beauty of this job is being educated. I will take that back to my officials and query them on my briefing.

Respiratory Syncytial Virus

Debate between Lord Turnberg and Lord Markham

Thursday 19th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Yes. I should probably declare an interest, having set up a PCR business—in the private sector, I might add. I know at first hand from that how versatile these PCR machines are. They can be used to diagnose all these sorts of treatments, so we absolutely have to make sure we keep that strategic capacity alive.

[Lord Turnberg (Lab)]

My Lords, we were obviously ill prepared for the Covid outbreak. How prepared does the Minister think we are now for track and trace and delivery of PCR tests? What resources do we have in place to cover that?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

We have the PCR capacity in place. Clearly, as responsible Ministers spending-wise, we are ramping some of that down because we do not need the sort of capacity we had before. From personal knowledge, I can promise that there are a lot of these PCR machines knocking around, so that capacity really is there. There was a Question a few days ago about how prepared we are for the next epidemic. Clearly, we will get the findings of the Covid inquiry, but the whole purpose of setting up the UKHSA was to make sure we have the proper preparations around for next time.

NHS Winter Pressures

Debate between Lord Turnberg and Lord Markham

Tuesday 10th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I wholeheartedly agree with my noble friend that the pharmacies are the front line. We realise that they have been underutilised in the past. Actually, the plan of using them more for patients will put more funding their way, which I hope will support them, just as allocating Covid vaccinations to many pharmacies provided support. I hope my noble friend will see that this plan should add to the viability of a number of pharmacies by putting more business their way. They are a crucial part of the front line.

[Lord Turnberg (Lab)]

My Lords, this focus on the number of hospital beds may be at the wrong end. It is much more fruitful to think about why staff are so dissatisfied and unhappy that they wish to leave and do so in droves. We have to do more to improve the morale of the nursing and medical professions and, in particular, those who work in the community—the care workers. We are losing them in great numbers; they are not coping. The reason is partly their pay, and we must pay them a reasonable rate, but it is also that they are completely disillusioned as people do not take them seriously. They do not have a professional qualification or a proper training programme. They do not have the possibility of career progression. We must do more to encourage them and ensure that they have a satisfactory career. If we do, we could possibly get more patients out of those beds that were building up, and perhaps help reduce the queues of ambulances.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I agree that we need a whole-system approach. Workforce is a key part of that, including the adult social care workforce. Again, as all noble Lords did, I welcome the advent of the agreement to do a workforce plan, which needs to take all these factors into account. We need to make sure that it is an attractive place to work, and that people see it as a career progression—and that it is modular so that you can start in social care and, if you want to, progress into other parts of the health service.

Hospital Beds: Social Care

Debate between Lord Turnberg and Lord Markham

Monday 19th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

We are absolutely aware that we need long-term plans and forecasts. That is also one of the things that the healthcare workforce plan will take into account: it will look at exactly where the capacity needs to be on a regional basis going forward so that we have the right number of hospital beds and social care places for an elderly and growing demographic in terms of age groups.

[Lord Turnberg (Lab)]

My Lords, is it not the case that patients are stuck in hospital because social care staff are leaving in droves? They are leaving because they are not respected, not given a career and not paid sufficiently. Should we not be doing something about retaining these vital social care staff?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

The number of care workers is key to all this and I delighted to say that the latest data shows that we are back to the levels of April 2021. Too many people have left, but we have managed to fill the gaps with the international recruitment fund and other measures. We all agree that we need to progress that further, but we are now making the increases that are needed in this space.

Streptococcus A: Antibiotics

Debate between Lord Turnberg and Lord Markham

Thursday 15th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

My understanding is that there are measures in place to ensure that the people supplying in those circumstances are not losing out because of profiteering. The most essential message today is that that supply is available to anyone who needs it, so I will take that back.

[Lord Turnberg (Lab)]

My Lords, is it the manufacturers in the pharmaceutical industry or the wholesalers—the middlemen—who are making the profits? What mechanisms are available to clamp down on them?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

The key mechanisms always involve broadening the supply chain. I have given exactly that instruction to the department, which is very much taking it on board. It is looking at supply across a number of sources, not just from the UK but worldwide, as well as the substitution of antibiotics. Penicillin is currently the advised one, but a number of others are being advised right now which will also work well, so that there is as much choice as possible.

Adult Social Care

Debate between Lord Turnberg and Lord Markham

Thursday 24th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I have not read the report, which was published a few years ago—I will always stand up and say when I have read something and when I have not, and will not pretend to have read something that I have not. But I am aware of the issue. I was a local councillor many moons ago and am aware of the issue of the narrow tax base on which we are sometimes asking to draw, so it is a much wider question. That is why I am glad that a lot of this funding has come from central government as a down payment towards that. As I have mentioned many times, I accept that we need to find some long-term solutions in this space.

[Lord Turnberg (Lab)]

My Lords, the question of pay is very important of course, but the other element is the respect and self-respect that a professional is due. That can come only if they have a nationally recognised training programme, qualification and registration, none of which they have. Will the noble Lord think about how we might achieve that? At least that will bring more people into the profession.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord that we need to make this an appealing profession and, as the noble Lord says, that involves more than just pay. We know that retention is vital, so I agree that having it properly recognised professionally is the direction of travel. At the same time, I am very glad to say that, for a lot of the money we are talking about—the £2.8 billion next year, for instance—some 70% will trickle down into wages, so I am pleased that it will actually be felt in the pockets of the carers, which again will help with recruitment and retention.

Health: Pancreatic Cancer

Debate between Lord Turnberg and Lord Markham

Monday 21st November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

My noble friend is correct: pancreatic is probably one of the cruellest of cancers. We have a 10-year cancer plan; to answer his question, we are going through 5,000 responses, and we are analysing them and will report back shortly. On research, we are performing over 70 different pancreatic cancer studies. Key to all of this is not just early diagnosis; more important than ever, in this awareness month, is making sure that people are aware and go to their doctors early if they have any concerns at all.

[Lord Turnberg (Lab)]

My Lords, one of the problems of this nasty cancer is that, by the time any symptoms occur, it is often too late. We desperately need some sort of screening test. Recent research has suggested that we may be able to pick it up in the bloodstream using a so-called liquid biopsy. What research is being done on this now?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I understand that the leader in this field is GRAIL. This blood screening is happening in America right now, and NICE is undertaking studies in this field to see whether it should be brought to the UK. We will have its findings. I agree that pancreatic cancer is an area where early detection is key. It is not just about the screening but about people going to their doctor if they have any concerns at all, as I say. We have non-specific symptoms pathways to help doctors to detect what is wrong.

NHS: Nurses

Debate between Lord Turnberg and Lord Markham

Tuesday 1st November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I totally agree that retention and attracting people into the profession are key. I like to think that we are looking at all these things in the round, taking into account the £5,000 grant, the service they are giving, and their conditions and pay going forward. As ever, this is a moving feast, for want of a better term, so we will keep looking at it to make sure we continue to both attract and retain the domestic and international staff numbers.

[Lord Turnberg (Lab)]

My Lords, have the Government made any assessment of the reasons why so many nurses are wanting to leave, and, if so, what remedies are being suggested by them?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

The Nuffield study was very interesting: of the reasons for people leaving, 43% said retirement, 22% said it was for personal reasons, and 18% said it was due to too much pressure. Again, in quoting those figures I accept that there is work we need to do on this. Clearly, 18% leaving due to too much pressure is something we rightly need to be concerned about. I know that is why we set up the 40 mental health and well-being hubs with a £45 million investment, to look at whether we can address some of those pressures. Most of all, though, I completely agree that we need to recruit as many nurses as we can so that we have as big a supply as possible to ensure that we continue to relieve any pressures that exist.

Nursing: Recruitment

Debate between Lord Turnberg and Lord Markham

Wednesday 26th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

The noble Baroness is correct that this is a long-term pipeline. We have 72,000 nurses in training at the moment. To be clear, there is no cap at all on student places. We are seeking to increase them as much as possible, and we put a £5,000-a-year grant in so that trainee nurses could enjoy superior levels of financial support than other students. The fact that we have a pipeline of 72,000 shows that this is working, but that pipeline is not capped, so if we can get more people in, we definitely want to do that.

[Lord Turnberg (Lab)]

No matter how many nurses we try to recruit, we never seem to catch up with the rate of loss. What are the Government doing to help retention of nurses? We must try to encourage them and support them to stay. What plans are there to do that, and what plans have the Government got to bring back nurses who have left or retired?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

First, we are actually exceeding the number of leavers. There were 36,000 people who left last year and 45,000 who joined—a net increase of 9,000. That is not to say that we do not want to retain people. I absolutely accept the premise that we do, which is why we have a retention programme in place to ensure that we are able to do so. We also have a restart programme to help people who have left to get back into nursing in a quick and easy way. Overall, the main point here is that the number of joiners is exceeding the number of leavers. We are more than catching the number up; we are exceeding it.