Artificial Intelligence: Public Services

Debate between Lord Vallance of Balham and Baroness Chakrabarti

Tuesday 6th May 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Vallance of Balham (Lab)]

The deployment of AI has started, as the noble Lord recognised, and I have given the three headline exemplars—and others are being put in through the incubator for AI that sits within DSIT. He raises a crucial point, and that is why the responsible AI advisory panel is being set up, which will include civil society, industry and academia to make sure that this is looked at properly. An ethics unit is already looking at this, and there are many diverse groups across government. What the Government Digital Service is trying to do is to pull it together into something more coherent, of which I think the responsible AI advisory panel is an important part.

[Baroness Chakrabarti (Lab)]

My Lords, a slogan from the early days of computing is, “Rubbish in, rubbish out”. Biased historic training data can bake discrimination and historic bias into the system, whether on stop and search, which we have discussed, or whether on insurability or employability, and so on. To flip my noble friend’s very positive and commendable Question, what are the Government going to do to ensure that there are safeguards to ensure that historic bias is not baked into the system?

[Lord Vallance of Balham (Lab)]

Once again, that is a very important question. The noble Baroness is absolutely right. It is as true for AI as it is for other systems: rubbish in, rubbish out. Well-curated, properly understood datasets are crucial. It is one of the reasons that where there are well-documented, well-curated datasets that can be used to train models for government purposes, we will be pursuing those. We will use the AI assurance mechanism that I discussed previously to try to make sure that we identify where there are systems that carry risks such as the one the noble Baroness raises.

AstraZeneca

Debate between Lord Vallance of Balham and Baroness Chakrabarti

Thursday 6th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Vallance of Balham (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord—that is the first time I have been called complacent about vaccines. There is a lot going on: the Moderna investment in a new facility at Harwell; the BioNTech investment; the recent announcement of £60 million by GSK with Oxford; and there is a review of all the vaccine facilities across the country. It is absolutely essential to get this right, as the noble Lord has said, for future pandemic preparedness, as it is a key area. AstraZeneca remains, of course, with its major R&D base in this country, and I will be speaking to it again shortly.

[Baroness Chakrabarti (Lab)]

My Lords, I would call my noble friend the Minister a very dedicated public servant and not a bit complacent. Does he agree that a number of pharmaceutical companies, not least AstraZeneca, have benefited a great deal over the years from UK investment, including in universities and including through the purchasing power of the NHS, which is not inconsiderable? What do the Government plan to do to introduce an element of contingency into those relationships? Have the Government considered perhaps even their own state manufacturing capacity?

[Lord Vallance of Balham (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend for her question. The UK is fortunate to have two very large pharmaceutical companies in this land, and we have many biotechs starting up as a result, because many of the people in those biotechs were trained in the big companies. As my noble friend quite rightly points out, the relationship with the NHS is important. All of these things create an ecosystem for life sciences investment which we are very keen to continue. The history of state-run manufacturing facilities is not one that generally leads to advanced manufacturing and efficiency.

Artificial Intelligence: Regulation

Debate between Lord Vallance of Balham and Baroness Chakrabarti

Thursday 17th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Vallance of Balham (Lab)]

Thank you. It is an important area, and one where we have huge opportunities for growth. There is definitely the need for regulators to become upskilled in the ability to look at AI and understand how it impacts their areas. That is the reason we created the Regulatory Innovation Office, announced last week, to make sure that there are the capabilities and expertise in sector-dependent regulators. We also believe that there is a need for regulation for the most advanced models, which are general purpose, and of course cross many different areas as well.

[Baroness Chakrabarti (Lab)]

My Lords, notwithstanding the need for sector-specific approaches and expertise, does my noble friend agree that public confidence and constitutional legitimacy require primary legislation, and sooner rather than later?

[Lord Vallance of Balham (Lab)]

The reason we are establishing the prospect of an AI Act is to look at those models that are the ones that are at the biggest forefront in general use and carry with them specific opportunities and risks that require that specific legislation. It is not the case that that is true for every aspect of the application of AI in every single area, much of which can be covered by existing regulation and can be dealt with by regulators, provided that they are appropriately reinforced with the skills, capabilities and knowledge required.

Framework Convention on Artificial Intelligence

Debate between Lord Vallance of Balham and Baroness Chakrabarti

Tuesday 15th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chakrabarti]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the value of, and the progress towards achieving the aims of the Council of Europe Framework Convention on artificial intelligence and human rights, democracy, and the rule of law, adopted on 17 May.

[The Minister of State, Department for Science, Innovation and Technology (Lord Vallance of Balham) (Lab)]

Artificial intelligence has the potential to significantly boost economic growth, but to enable this it is essential to build public trust. That is why the UK has, together with international partners, signed the first ever legally binding treaty on AI, which, alongside our existing legal framework, will enhance the protection of human rights, democracy and the rule of law, supporting democratic institutions and ensuring that AI can develop and be used in line with our values.

[Baroness Chakrabarti (Lab)]

I am grateful to my noble friend, whom I belatedly welcome to the Dispatch Box. It is easily done on all sides of politics, but one minute we berate so-called red tape and the next minute we weep for tragedies like Grenfell. So does my noble friend agree with me that concepts like human rights, democracy and the rule of law are far from red tape? Does he agree that the Council of Europe, which at least one pretender to the Conservative crown wants us to pull out of, will be essential to navigating this very difficult territory in the years to come?