Health Bill

Debate between Lord Young of Cookham and Lord Kamall

Committee stage
Tuesday 3rd November 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the very many noble Lords who queued up to speak in this debate—I obviously raised a very important point. I am also grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, for reminding me how innovative I was when I was the Technology and Innovation Minister. In fact, I set up the very service that I am now asking for many years later. It does beg a question, because even I, as the person who set it up, still did not know that this service existed. When I speak to people in NHS England and elsewhere and say, “You know what you need? You need a front door for innovators”, they say, “You’re absolutely right; we haven’t got one”. So even people in NHS England do not know that this exists.

I was up front that I knew this was not meant to be in the Bill. I just wanted to get discussion. It probably helped to prompt my memory as well—my thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Scriven—but it is really important that more people know about the NHS Innovation Service. Perhaps the Minister could write to me and the many other noble Lords who are interested in this topic to let us know what the Government intend to do to promote the NHS Innovation Service, so that more people are aware and so I do not ask for the same thing next time we have a health Bill.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Young of Cookham) (Con)]

Does the noble Lord wish to withdraw his amendment?

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

I thought the logical conclusion would be that I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Tobacco and Vapes Bill

Debate between Lord Young of Cookham and Lord Kamall

Report stage
Tuesday 24th February 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, I have added my name to two amendments in this group. Before coming to those, I will say a word about Amendment 77 from the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, which I was initially attracted to. Like many other noble Lords, I went to a presentation by ASH, where we listened to health experts explain that filters do not prevent anything noxious reaching the lungs. On the contrary, they have ingredients in them that might be damaging. Far worse, because of the filter, smokers inhale more than they would have done had there not been one, as they think it is safe. It may be that the 25 government amendments achieve in a rather roundabout way what the noble Baroness seeks to do in Amendment 77. We will listen with interest to the Minister when she speaks to her amendments.

Amendment 133 was ably spoken to by the noble Lord, Lord Rennard. As I have said before, when I was a Health Minister in 1979, I tried to get the tobacco industry to adopt putting a warning on cigarettes and it declined on the grounds that ink was carcinogenic. This was not an argument I found very persuasive. Here we are, nearly 50 years later, still discussing something that at the time was world-beating, although I understand that I have now been overtaken by Canada.

Amendment 204, spoken to by the noble Earl, Lord Russell, sits rather uneasily in this group, which is otherwise about filters, in that it is about the tobacco levy. I want to make a number of points. First, previously the Government ruled this out on the grounds that they consulted on a levy model in 2014. Indeed they did, but this is a very different model from that which they consulted on. Crucially, in the one they consulted on, the levy would have been passed on to the consumer, with all the impact on RPI or CPI. This model has been constructed to avoid that; it would control the price that tobacco can be sold for, leading to very different outcomes from the model consulted on by the Treasury, and would not allow tobacco companies to pass the costs on to consumers as they do at the moment. It would raise revenue. One estimate has been £5 billion. Even if it is a fraction of that, it is money well worth having.

The scheme would not be complex to administer. As the noble Earl said, there are only four manufacturers. The department already operates the PPRS, controlling medicine prices, with far more manufacturers than are involved in tobacco. Crucially, the Khan review, already referred to, which was initiated by Sajid Javid when he was Health Secretary, pointed out that the Government were not going to hit their then target of a smoke-free England by 2030. It recommended the levy—this was an independent review commissioned by the last Conservative Government—and reinvesting the money in media campaigns targeted at those elements of the population who were still smoking.

Finally, I know that the Minister will not mind me reminding her of what she said when a similar amendment was debated in 2022 and passed in your Lordships’ House by 213 to 154. She knows what I am going to say; she supported and voted for that amendment, saying that it would

“provide a well-funded and much-needed boost, and a consultation would allow this proposal to be tested, refined and shaped”.—[Official Report, 16/3/22; col. 297.]

Well, that is what we are asking for today. She did not persuade me in Committee when she gave the reasons why she had changed her mind. Perhaps she can have another go this evening and explain why she will now urge the House to reject what she thought was a good idea four years ago.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

My Lords, since this is the first time I have spoken on Report, I declare my interest as a professor of politics and international relations at St Mary’s University, Twickenham, where I teach an MBA module on healthcare policy and strategy. I also work with the Vinson Centre for the Public Understanding of Economics and Entrepreneurship at the University of Buckingham, and we sometimes run seminars on evidence behind public health policy.