Modern Slavery Bill
Lord Young of Norwood Green Excerpts(9 years, 5 months ago)
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Lord Young of Norwood Green (Lab)
My Lords, I will be brief as I am speaking in the gap and I am conscious of time. I declare an interest as the former vice-chair of the Ethical Trading Initiative, so I have a deep and abiding interest in this. I, too, congratulate the Government on making time and bringing forward a very important piece of legislation.
I congratulate my noble friend Lady Kennedy on introducing a debate on supply chains a short while ago, which anticipated this debate. I want to focus on that issue. They are a key part of the challenge we face, not just in the UK but, as we know, in global supply chains that truly stretch around the world. My mind was concentrated over the weekend by an article I read on cotton, of which probably everybody in this Chamber is wearing an item, and the appalling conditions in India, where young women are, in effect, in bonded slavery. They cannot escape from their employers and if they try to they are often captured and brought back. They are working in conditions that are nothing less than slavery, with the thought that they are eventually going to earn enough money to release themselves from this bondage, which of course they never do. How difficult is it for companies to find out about the cotton they are using in the garments they manufacture? It is quite difficult and we should not underestimate that challenge. It is not for me to stand up here and be an apologist for companies but I hope to address the topic in a realistic way.
If the Bill is going to have the impact that we all want it to have, we know the importance of companies taking this issue seriously from the very top and ensuring that it is dealt with in their annual report in a serious way. I was interested in what the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Derby said about whether we should be looking at the Companies Act. Certainly we have debated previously the importance of companies being involved and setting the threshold of the size of those companies.
My last point concerns the role of the Gangmasters Licensing Authority, which I am proud to say the Ethical Trading Initiative played a leading role in bringing into being. A number of people have already made the point that it is probably the most important organisation in trying to ensure that we do not have even more slavery in this country than currently exists. I hope that the Minister will look carefully at ensuring that the Gangmasters Licensing Authority is properly resourced, as well as the question of extending its remit.
The challenge for us as we try to get this legislation through will probably be selecting the amendments that are the ones that we really need to focus on, so that we do not swamp the Bill with amendments and defeat the main objective.
Slavery
Lord Young of Norwood Green Excerpts(9 years, 6 months ago)
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Lord Young of Norwood Green (Lab)
My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend Lady Kennedy of Cradley on creating a precursor debate before we come to deal with the Modern Slavery Bill. The debate has been interesting and my noble friend’s opening contribution was very powerful. It covered the waterfront and the land masses as well. As I listened to her, I thought, “You could have left us something to cover”, but I say that in tribute to how comprehensive her coverage was. It just went to show the extent of the problem.
I declare a prior and continuing interest as, until recently, vice-chair of the Ethical Trading Initiative, an organisation that I have been involved with for many years. If I have learnt anything, it is about the sheer complexity of supply chains. They are not easy beasts to deal with. At the end of supply chains there are first-tier contractors, second-tier contractors and third-tier contractors. Companies will supply you with a set of books to suit whatever requirement you have, so businesses may have one, two or three sets of books. They know when you are coming and if there is any child labour, it will disappear. We should not underestimate the challenge that companies face in trying to root out some of these evil practices from their supply chains.
I congratulate the Government on their commitment to this issue and on making space in the legislative programme for the Modern Slavery Bill. I pay tribute to the work of Frank Field in the other place and to the commitment and involvement of the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, and my noble friend Lady Kennedy.
I want to focus on the business of transparency and disclosure requirements in supply chains. I do not much like the acronym TiSC. It might trip off the tongue but it is not very graceful. The noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, talked about the sheer scale of slavery, as reflected in the ILO report. The number of people involved in it is absolutely staggering. About 21 million men, women and children are in forced labour. We know that we have not abolished slavery by any means. It is worldwide and unfortunately alive and flourishing in the UK as well. I do not want to reiterate what others have said, but global profits are estimated at $44 billion and $32 billion is generated by human trafficking. These are colossal figures. In 2014 humanity ought to be ashamed that these practices continue.
The forthcoming Bill is a welcome step in the right direction. As a number of noble Lords have said, we want a disclosure requirement for companies in the Bill. I do not apologise for repeating what my noble friend Lady Kennedy said in identifying this. There should be a clear commitment from the chief executive and chairman of a company. I know from experience that if you do not have that commitment at the top it is not going to work. What you tell buyers and suppliers is no good. They need to see that there is real commitment right at the top of companies.
Disclosure should include, as a minimum, how risks have been identified throughout the supply chain, who has been involved in the identification of such risks, what action has been taken once risks have been identified and the steps taken to address modern slavery, if it is identified. The minimum requirements should be specified in primary legislation.
My noble friend Lady Kennedy talked about a threshold of £60 million. The figure is taken from Californian legislation. Whether it is the right figure is probably open to debate. The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Derby made the interesting point that a lot of smaller companies could be involved. A lot of them would be involved in the supply chains of bigger companies so a debate on who is going to be covered by this threshold is merited.
The disclosure should be published in a company’s annual report, on its website and provided in writing on request. Foreign companies operating in the UK are not required to produce an annual report, but they should provide a stand-alone modern slavery disclosure to the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. Otherwise, we will find a whole group of people who are actively trading in the UK and who could be using forced or slave labour, but who are not included here. I do not think that would be right.
One question that I do not think has been raised is that of domestic worker visas. Changes to the Immigration Rules were introduced in April 2012 and under the system now in place new domestic workers in private households are able to stay in the UK only for a minimum of six months. They are no longer able to change their employer in the UK. The same thing applies to staff in diplomatic households. They are able to stay for up to five years but they can no longer settle permanently and, as before, they cannot change an employer in the UK. If you cannot change your employer in the UK, that is creating fertile grounds for you to be in a form of modern slavery. There have been enough cases in the press for us to know that this is not just people thinking about a worst case scenario. It actually happens and is an indictment on us. I would welcome the Minister’s response on that issue.
Baroness Hamwee
I just used the words “domestic servitude”, having all this in mind. That is not why I have risen. Does the noble Lord agree that there must be some sort of supply chain in the countries where some of these migrant domestic workers come from, where they are initially employed and then brought to this country by their employers? The term “supply chain” should cover that kind of relationship and arrangement as well.
Lord Young of Norwood Green
I thank the noble Baroness. She is absolutely right. There certainly are organisations that specialise in supplying people. Whether we can somehow embrace that in terms of the supply chain, I am not so sure.
The noble Baroness, Lady Cox, made a number of really interesting points. She gave us the example of the Noble Foods egg company—an absolute classic—and used the phrase “demonising a few”, which is what can happen in the current environment, where there are a number of companies that are upfront; in many cases they are members of the Ethical Trading Initiative. Of course, if their activities are found to be less than perfect, they are often pilloried, whereas a whole host of other companies are not required to do much at all.
I see the surveys and hear people talk about British consumers caring very much about the sources of goods but I am a little sceptical. When members of my own family come home and say that they have bought an item of clothing at a very low price and I ask them if they know where it came from, there is often a deafening silence. With the flourishing of various stores that are offering the opportunity to buy things for £1 or less, how many people are checking the source of what they are buying? Including these organisations would be good.
The last point I want to make is about the remit of the GLA. I was really interested to hear the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Derby refer to proactive activities in engaging with other companies. If noble Lords cast their minds back, they will remember that when the previous Government set up the Gangmasters Licensing Authority in the terrible context of the Morecambe Bay disaster, it had a fairly limited remit. I join others in saying that it is time we extended the remit of the GLA. There is a whole host of other industries—I think it was the noble Baroness, Lady Cox, who referred to them so I do not need to repeat that. I have reached the end of my time and I look forward to the Minister’s response.
Police: Public Trust
Lord Young of Norwood Green Excerpts(10 years, 5 months ago)
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Lord Young of Norwood Green (Lab)
My Lords, I enter this debate with some trepidation. It is not an area that I normally deal with, but I was fascinated by the first two contributions and I also congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, on giving the House the opportunity to debate this vital issue. I was interested in the contrast between the two contributions that we have just heard on the cause, the analysis and what the cure should be.
I suspect that there will not be any silver bullet. You cannot improve the complaints system without seeking to change the culture. Anybody who has done any examination of organisations will know that the hardest thing to change in any organisation is the culture. You can change structures and processes, but changing the culture is really difficult. However, we have to address the issue and I would be interested to hear the Minister’s response.
Along with all the other concerns that have been expressed about recent and not so recent cases, perhaps the most recent example was when the Public Administration Select Committee heard evidence from both a serving police officer and an ex-chief inspector. There were revelations concerning the reporting of crimes by the public and the disparity between those figures and the figures that were recorded by the police; for example, in rape cases there appeared to be a 70% discrepancy, and in one London borough there was a disparity of 400 in relation to burglaries from dwellings. I would be interested to hear the Government’s response to that.
Having looked through the Library note and the analysis of the role of the IPCC, I ask: do the Government feel that it is genuinely as independent as it should be? Does it really have the necessary powers to inspire confidence in the public that it is independent and that it can genuinely and thoroughly investigate complaints? As the report pointed out, it cannot call evidence from non-serving officers or those who have retired. That seems a yawning gap in its role. Some would suggest that, given its make-up, the commission is not truly independent.
Like the two previous speakers, I do not want to cast aspersions on the police generally. I work with them locally very well and very satisfactorily, and I think that the majority of them do a difficult and sometimes dangerous job very well indeed. But the question of public trust and confidence is of fundamental importance and cannot be ignored. A number of recent cases, which are not just about police constables but go much further up the hierarchy of command, give the public genuine cause for concern. I look forward to hearing what the Government intend to do in relation to recent revelations, and what changes they think are necessary.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Taylor of Holbeach) (Con)
My Lords, I join other noble Lords in thanking the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, for tabling this important debate. The mantra of Robert Peel that,
“the police are the people and the people are the police,
holds as true today as it did when he first founded the Metropolitan Police all those years ago. I note, too, that while we are not debating it today, there will be a debate next week on the report of the noble Lord, Lord Stevens of Kirkwhelpington, on the future of policing. There is a real dialogue on this important issue. I am delighted to see that the noble Lord, Lord Stevens, who is not in his place today, has identified many of the issues on which the Government are already taking action: a code of ethics, a published list of officers dismissed for misconduct, and a more robust and independent complaints regime. However, I feel that the report, in calling for the abolition of police and crime commissioners, has overlooked the contribution they have already made. Despite only being in post for a year, PCCs are already more visible than anonymous police authorities. Seven out of 10 members of the public are aware of PCCs. PCCs are also introducing many different innovations in their areas to address their communities’ problems.
While statistics on public confidence in the police remain resilient, we have reason not to be complacent. I agree with my noble friend Lord Paddick on this and I thought that the noble Lord, Lord Bew, was very perceptive in his analysis. If we reach the point where people may be satisfied that their local officers are honest and fair but the majority begin to assume that the police in general are not to be trusted, it will be too late. It will be far harder to recover from such a position. The noble Baroness, Lady O’Neill of Bengarve, in a remarkable speech, brought a profound wisdom to the relationship between aim and outcome in a critique that had a far wider application than just trust and the police. I value the opportunity of reading her speech on the record, as it was extremely profound.
To address this issue, the Home Secretary announced a number of measures back in February to strengthen police integrity. We have been working with the new College of Policing whose remit is to set and maintain standards for the police and to implement some of these measures. On 24 October the college launched for public consultation the first ever code of ethics for the police. The code will be the highest level of declaration of the principles and standards of behaviour expected of those working in police forces. The code of ethics will be a living document, embedded into forces’ policy and practice, and refreshed with all officers and staff at regular intervals. It illustrates what compliance with the standard of professional behaviour looks like and will provide clarity for all members of the police force in what is expected of them.
It is always interesting to listen to the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Ripon and Leeds. He said that it focused too much on the negative. The college is about good practice, too. Perhaps I may tease the right reverend Prelate and say that those Ten Commandments include a few negative injunctions as well as the positive imperatives. So there is a good precedent for it.
As the noble Lord, Lord Bew, said, the Nolan principles are enshrined within this code of practice. Indeed, Northern Ireland is the source of much of the thinking behind this document. I would like to talk to the noble Lord about the extent to which he feels that the document produced by the college is less clear and self-evident. We want a document that is clear not only to the police but also to the public, in whose name the document is being delivered.
The college cannot address the issues of police confidence and police integrity alone. It is essential that there is public confidence that the most serious and sensitive cases involving the police will be dealt with effectively. As part of her announcement in February the Home Secretary made clear her intention to transfer resources from forces to the Independent Police Complaints Commission so that it is equipped to deal with such cases. I stress that by resources I mean funding. There will not be a transfer of officers to the IPCC but it will receive substantial extra funding—I cannot give details of the funding—so that it will be able to recruit its own independent investigators. The public can then be reassured that we are finally putting an end to the police investigating the police in the most serious cases and that the IPCC is acting with genuine independence. I agree with my noble friend Lady Doocey that this independence is vital to ensuring public confidence in the police. The events of last year proved overwhelmingly the case for a strengthened IPCC, and that is what the Government are determined to deliver. The plans to increase the capacity of the IPCC are on track and it will begin to take on additional cases from next year.
Police and crime commissioners will also play a vital role in ensuring that public trust and confidence in the police are maintained. That is why I think the noble Lord, Lord Stevens, is wrong. PCCs are responsible for setting the police and crime plans for their force areas and, in doing so, they must consult victims of crime. This gives them a vital link to those who have come into direct contact with the police and who will therefore have a view on the integrity and behaviour of officers within their force. PCCs hold their chief officers to account for the totality of policing in their areas. If, as we have said, the public lose trust or confidence in their force, the PCC obviously has a role in holding the chief constable to account for this.
Earlier this week the Crown Prosecution Service announced that it had charged a Metropolitan Police Service officer, PC Keith Wallis, with misconduct in public office in connection with the incident on 19 September 2012 in Downing Street involving a former Cabinet Minister, Andrew Mitchell. The decision not to charge the other MPS officers connected to this incident does not preclude misconduct proceedings from being instigated. The MPS has announced that PC Wallis and seven other police officers will be subject to misconduct proceedings. The issues raised by the Andrew Mitchell case are very serious. It is right that cases such as this hit the headlines. We must remember that these are not the rule. Even so, it is an issue and we are targeting unprofessional behaviour through the range of measures that we are implementing alongside our partners. It is a privilege for us in the Home Office to work with the IPCC, HMIC, the College of Policing and PCCs to enhance police integrity, and we look forward confidently to seeing some excellent results from this work.
Perhaps I may address some of the issues that were raised in the excellent speeches made in this debate. My noble friend Lord Paddick referred to the difficulties of black and ethnic minority recruitment into the police. I think we would all agree that police forces that reflect the communities they serve are crucial to cutting crime in a modern diverse society. While the police force is much more representative than before, there is still much to be done. The Government’s reforms will stimulate progress. We support the aspiration of the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police to achieve a much better representation of BME officers in the force in the next wave of officer recruitment.
My noble friend also referred to stop and search, which is not a totally unrelated issue. Where stop and search is used properly, it allows the police to tackle serious crime effectively. Where it is used badly, it can cause personal humiliation for the individual, a disconnect between the police and the public and an undermining of public confidence. A number of reports have raised concerns about the use of this power, which is why we have undertaken a consultation on it and are currently analysing the responses to it.
My noble friend Lady Doocey was concerned about the independence of the IPCC. I can understand that concern. That is one of the reasons why it is having funding of its own to recruit its own staff. About 80% of the IPCC staff do not come from a police background. Investigators in the most serious cases overseen by the IPCC can never have worked for the police; they are not allowed to have worked for the police. All IPCC investigators undergo a period of training. As I said, giving the IPCC the resources to recruit its own independent investigators will be a great step forward.
The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, made an amusing, remarkable and moving maiden speech. She asked a number of questions and raised a number of points. In particular, she talked about the deep concerns that have been raised by allegations that undercover police officers were deployed in an attempt to smear the Lawrence family after Stephen Lawrence’s murder and that undercover officers used the identities of deceased children. As the noble Baroness will know, Operation Herne and the review by Mark Ellison will address these issues.
The noble Baroness also suggested that the police needed to be better at communicating. New recruits into police forces must pass both written and oral communications tests and continuing professional development is available for officers throughout their career. The code of ethics currently out for consultation acknowledges the importance of effective communication between police and the public, emphasising the need for the police to talk to people in local communities, break down barriers and ensure that their behaviour and language cannot be interpreted as being oppressive. There is no role for oppressive policing in this country.
My noble friend Lady Hamwee referred to the professionalism that needs to be at the heart of the police and the sensitivity and emotional intelligence needed among the individuals who make up the police force. Her speech reinforced my view that we are in a period of great—and very necessary—change, a view already expressed by my noble friend Lord Wasserman. I believe that that change is justified.
The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, referred to his membership of the Police Service Parliamentary Scheme. We were both, unfortunately, engaged on the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill when it had rather a nice dinner, and we had only a smell of the food. I can only recommend the scheme, which is run by Sir Neil Thorne. It has been a great success. Although I listened to what the noble Lord said, and understand that he is there and I am here, he has reinforced my view of why the Government are treating the reform of the police service as important. Although I can hardly expect him to agree with everything that we are doing, I value the opportunities that we have to debate these issues.
This has been a well argued and interesting debate on a very current issue. We have been fortunate to hear the first of what I expect to be many contributions from the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb. She will be a real asset to the House and I congratulate and welcome her. This is also the first time, I believe, that my noble friend Lord Paddick has led a debate. He brings considerable experience of holding senior rank in our country’s largest force. His presence is a valuable addition to the House and I am grateful to him for bringing this important topic for us to debate today.
Lord Young of Norwood Green
Before the noble Lord sits down, I raised the question of the revelations at the recent sitting of the Public Administration Committee about the discrepancy between the figures for incidents reported by the public and the police figures. I did not hear any response from the Minister and would welcome hearing him address that.
Lord Taylor of Holbeach
I am not in a position to comment directly on those figures but they have been raised in this House before. The noble Earl, Lord Lytton, has raised a number of questions with me and has been in correspondence with me on this. There are indeed differences with police statistics and I agree with the noble Lord that one of the most important things that the Government will need to do is ensure that police statistics on reported crime correspond to the real experience of individuals. Figures can be used to build trust in the police but can also be used in a negative sense. I would like to think that the figures that I quoted were authoritative.
Education Bill
Lord Young of Norwood Green Excerpts(12 years, 7 months ago)
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“Assessment on effect of tuition fees on over 19s seeking to reskill
Prior to the implementation of increased tuition fees for persons aged 19 or over the Secretary of State will assess the impact on adults seeking to reskill, with special regard to disability and gender.”
Lord Young of Norwood Green
My Lords, this is one of those amendments that speaks for itself so I do not intend to detain noble Lords long on this particular issue. Nevertheless, it is an important issue these days given the levels of redundancy and the need for people to retrain and reskill throughout their working lives. It is important that there is an assessment of the impact. It is difficult enough for people with disabilities to gain employment without any further impediments. Of course, there is the impact on women as well. I would welcome a response from the Minister.
Lord Peston
My Lords, I support my noble friend’s amendment. I do so with a certain degree of sadness. It is just under 50 years since I wrote the first paper ever written in the Treasury on loan schemes, and it would never have occurred to me then that we would end up discussing this sort of thing 50 years later. It would never have occurred to any of us who were among the first to think that loan schemes were the right way into student support that we would live in a world in which tuition fees were charged in higher education. That is why I say that there is a certain sadness here.
It may well be that the economy is so dire and so many people want to benefit from higher education that we have to have tuition fees, but it has always seemed quite awful to me. I assume that this amendment has been tabled so that the Minister can tell us exactly what preparations the Government looked at before deciding to go along the path that they have chosen.
I would like to hear what the research is that tells us that those who are disabled will not suffer from extreme disincentives because of these fee increases, and that there is no gender bias in them. I find it very hard to believe that there is no gender bias in what is happening here; quite the contrary. My noble friend has not told us this, but I assume this is why the amendment was tabled. This is all in preparation for the next stage, and for how we analyse these things. I look forward to a lecture from the Minister answering everything implicit in this amendment.
Baroness Verma
The noble Earl, Lord Listowel, raises a really important point and I hope that he will allow me to write to him in greater detail with that response.
Lord Young of Norwood Green
My Lords, I welcome the reassurances that we have received from the noble Baroness, Lady Verma. I trust that she will circulate to everybody details about the points that have been raised about access courses and the lone parent scenarios. I think that we will study the detail in Hansard in order to assure ourselves that there has been a full assessment of the impact. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.