Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill

Debate between Lord Gove and Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town

Thursday 8th January 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gove (Con)]

My Lords, I support the intent behind the Motion of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer. I believe that it is right that the House be given the opportunity to scrutinise the Bill in exhaustive detail, given the significance of the legislation and, as the noble Lord, Lord Stevens of Birmingham, pointed out, the comparison that can be legitimately drawn with government legislation of equal significance but perhaps less moment that has had a greater degree of pre-legislative scrutiny and consultation.

I also think it right to take account of the point that was made fairly and succinctly by my noble and learned friend Lord Garnier: that we are being invited to commit to extra time without necessarily knowing how much and under what circumstances. We may receive enlightenment from the Government Front Bench; we may receive indications from Ministers as to what is envisaged; but it would be helpful to know, rather than to vote in favour of or to offer our support for a generalised sentiment rather than a precise plan of action. Indeed, some of the concern about the legislation being put forward has come from those who sympathise with the generalised sentiment of the legislation itself but worry profoundly about implementation.

In the evidence of the Committee that we have had so far, I believe that the debate has been characterised by high-quality interventions from all sides. I would briefly single out the intervention of the noble Baroness, Lady Berger. The debate she initiated on the age at which this momentous decision might be taken prompted the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, to acknowledge that many wise arguments were raised and that it was appropriate that some discussion should take place outside this place about how her concerns might be taken account of in the legislation. It was gracious of him to do so, but valuable as those conversations outside the Chamber are, they are no substitute, as the noble Baroness, Lady Berridge, pointed out, for an acknowledgement in the Chamber of a willingness on the part of the promoters of the Bill and others to come forward with their own amendments, or to accept amendments from other Peers which ensure that the lacunae identified in the legislation are to be properly addressed before we reach Report and Third Reading, or on Report.

My final point—

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

The mover of the original Bill, as well as the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, have written to all Members to say that their door is open, offering to discuss a way forward. The offer has been there, and the noble Lord should accept that.

[Lord Gove (Con)]

I did accept that, and if I did not make myself clear enough, let me make it absolutely clear: I consider it to be wise and gracious and I am grateful, but it is still no substitute for the legislative process itself and for legislators being satisfied that the acknowledgement of a fault or lacuna in the Bill is to be addressed through an amendment or to be rejected, so we can make a judgment about the Bill, unamended, on that basis. That is the purpose of legislative scrutiny. It is not about reassurances, however polite, well-meant and honourable; it is about legislation. This is a law-making Chamber.

I have two final points. The point was made by Joubert, the French philosopher, that it is better to comprehensively debate a principle without settling it than to settle it without comprehensive debate. That is the essence of the democratic principle—all the more so when we are legislating. I want to see the maximum amount of time, so that the amendments that have been put forward are properly scrutinised. It is not just a personal preference on my part, and here I take profound issue with the noble Baroness, Lady Jay, for whom I have enormous respect. She referred to what has been written about our debates outside. We may or may not wish to take account of that, but it is quite wrong to say that this House has been lowered in the estimation of outside observers because of the way in which we have handled the debate on this Bill.