EU Withdrawal Agreement

Debate between Nigel Evans and Geraint Davies

Tuesday 18th December 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley) (Con)]

It is a delight to be here in Parliament for another three hours of Brexit chat, and it is staggering to think, given when this all started, that José Mourinho is out of his club before we are out of ours. [Interruption.] It gets worse. I was listening carefully to the hon. Member for Swansea West (Geraint Davies), and I loved his honesty at least when he said that he does not want Brexit and that is why he is supporting the so-called people’s vote.

[Geraint Davies]

I am doing it because 25,000 jobs in Swansea depend on EU exports, and Swansea will be a lot worse off with Brexit.

[Mr Evans]

I admire that honesty, because a lot of people who bang on about this Orwellian concept of a people’s vote as if 2016 had not happened tend not to be as honest about their real motives. Their real motives are that they wish to stop Brexit; they wish to overturn the people’s vote of 2016.

Trade Bill

Debate between Nigel Evans and Geraint Davies

Tuesday 9th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Geraint Davies]

The Minister tells us that third parties are not behaving like that at the moment, so he implies that they will not behave like that in the future—what false logic; what naivety.. That is absolutely ridiculous. Any negotiator or country that sees Britain with its back to the wall, turning away from the biggest market in the world, will ask for more. If they did not say that they will give the money to Spain or wherever, they would not be doing their job. What is more, they will be dragging their heels, because they will know that the clock is ticking and that we need to get something sorted out. They have everything on their side. The Minister is so naive. All the negotiations over the past 40 years have been done by EU negotiators. We do not have the negotiating capacity. He is smiling glibly and pretending that it will be all right on the night, but it will not. People will remember what he has said today and how naive he was.

This Bill is simply not fit for purpose. It takes two to tango, and the Bill presumes, as the Minister does, that the EU will tango and not trip us up in the process.

The other facet of the Bill is secrecy and hiding what will happen. My hon. Friend the Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner) said that the US-UK deal will be hidden for four years, and there are all sorts of fears about our having to import substandard food products from the US, including chlorinated chicken, which the Secretary of State looks forward to eating—his name is Fox—and hormone-impregnated meat. In the US, medicines are introduced into meat and asbestos is for sale. All those standards may end up coming through the back door under the cloak of darkness in these secret deals.

I know that the Bill is not about the US-UK relationship at the moment, but the Minister and the Secretary of State have mentioned CETA, which already enables certain changes to occur. There is a real risk that we will take on some of these problems. Indeed, there is a real risk that we will lose out on opportunities that the EU is creating, particularly in the trade relationship with Japan. That trade relationship will involve 600 million people and comprise 30% of the world’s GDP. The Europeans have built in environmental conditions, particularly through the Paris agreement, and other rights and protections that we enjoy in the EU, and the real problem is that downstream, due to both changing the existing bilateral relationships and as part of future trade relationships, the protections and rights we enjoy through our trade relationships in the EU will be bargained away. Whether it is human rights, environmental rights or consumer rights, those things are now inadvertently on the table, and that table is under the cloak of darkness, as there will not be public scrutiny.

There should be a guarantee of scrutiny, and we should ensure that the rights and protections we enjoy in the EU are sustained in future trade relationships. In my view, we should stay in at least a customs union, and ideally the customs union and the single market.

[Mr Nigel Evans]

The British people voted to leave the European Union, and they were told before and during the referendum that leaving the European Union meant leaving the single market—[Interruption.] Yes, they were. The Prime Minister at the time, David Cameron, said exactly that.

The hon. Gentleman clearly wants to use smoke and mirrors to drag Wales back into some form of European union in which we have to pay money to access the single market and the customs union. Surely that is money that should be spent on the NHS in Wales.

[Geraint Davies]

As we know, 51% of people currently want to remain while 41% want to leave. On the day, it is the case that the people of Wales voted as the hon. Gentleman said, but he will also know that Wales is the beneficiary of billions of pounds of EU, convergence funding, that 70% of our exports go to the EU and that 25,000 jobs in Swansea bay rely on the EU. It is very much in the interests of Wales to be in the single market and in the EU, and that is increasingly the view of the people of Wales. The people of Swansea West certainly voted to stay in the EU.

As everything unfolds, people are essentially saying, “I voted for more money, market access and a greater say, but I find that I am not getting any of those things. I am not getting what I was promised, and I want a final say on the exit deal.” People should have that final say.

Specifically on the money, we know from the Financial Times that we are losing £350 million a week, that the divorce bill will cost £1,000 per family and that the increase in inflation is costing the average worker a week in wages. That was not what people voted for, and people are worried about these deals. I have been contacted by Liberty, for instance, about the loss of workers’ rights and environmental rights, and even about issues such as slavery.

We want open and transparent trade agreements. We want the protection of being in the single market and the customs union, and we want people to have the right to a final say—to think again—on the basis that the facts have changed. That is what democracy and a sensible future for Britain is about.