Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]

Debate between Rory Stewart and John Bercow

Monday 9th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Rory Stewart (Penrith and The Border) (Con)]

I beg to move amendment 24, page 1, line 9, leave out “is”

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 25, page 1, leave out line 10 and insert—

“(a) has been a member of the regular or reserve forces in the last five years ending with the day on which the appointment is to take effect, or”

Amendment 26, page 1, line 11, after “(b)”, insert “is”

Amendment 27, page 1, line 13, at end add—

“(4A) (a) The period for which a person is appointed shall be not less than five years and not more than seven years.

(b) A person who has been appointed as Ombudsman may not be re-appointed to the office.”

Amendment 28, in clause 2, page 3, line 15, at end insert—

“(5A) Before making regulations under this section the Defence Council must consult the Service Complaints Ombudsman.”

Amendment 23, page 5, line 15, at end insert—

“(2A) Regulations made under section 340E(1)(b) must specify that in relation to any service complaint which includes allegations of discrimination, harassment, or of being victimised as a result of making such allegations—

(a) where a person is appointed by the Defence Council for the purposes of section 340C(1)(a) or 340D(2)(d) that person must have a proven understanding of discrimination and harassment;

(b) where a panel is appointed by the Defence Council for the purposes of section 340C(1)(a) or 340D(2)(d) at least one member of the panel must have a proven understanding of discrimination and harassment.”

This amendment would require that any regulations made by the Secretary of State must specify that the person, or at least one of the panel members, involved in dealing with Service complaints involving allegations of discrimination or harassment should have a proven understanding of discrimination and harassment.

Amendment 29, page 7, line 32, leave out subsection (2).

Amendment 30, page 7, line 34, leave out from “subject to subsection (2),”

Amendment 31, page 7, line 39, leave out subsection (5).

Amendment 32, page 9, line 25, leave out paragraph (c) and insert—

“(c) provision for the imposition on those to whom reports are sent of obligations of confidentiality in the interests of—

(i) national security; or

(ii) the safety of any person.”

Amendment 33, page 9, line 30, at end insert—

“(aa) accept the findings and recommendations of the Service Complaints Ombudsman.”

Amendment 34, page 9, line 32, leave out “(if any)”

Amendment 35, page 9, leave out lines 35 to 37.

Amendment 36, page 12, line 14, at end add—

“( ) The Ombudsman may report to the Secretary of State on any matter relating to service complaints and the procedure for the handling of service complaints as the Ombudsman considers appropriate.”

[Rory Stewart]

These very important amendments were tabled by the Defence Committee. We shall not press them to a vote, but we want to explain crisply and clearly why we believe them to be very important. They focus above all on four things: the independence, freedom, power and scope of the ombudsman. I shall briefly go through each of the amendments in turn.

The principle on which the Defence Committee has acted is the need to get the balance right with regard to the very particular needs of military law and military discipline, which we accept are completely different from those in the civilian sphere. The kinds of things that soldiers are required to do are quite different from those required by a conventional employer. It is not necessary to lay those differences out in detail, but military discipline and military law have been quite different from civilian law in a series of important respects for 400 years.

It is important that, along with preserving the independence of the military and of military discipline and military law, we ensure that the ombudsman is genuinely trusted and respected. The first ingredient of that is, of course, the ombudsman’s independence and making sure there are no conflicts of interest, which is what the first set of amendments in this group—amendments 24 to 27—seek to ensure. They would make sure that the individual had not been in the military—either in the regular or the reserves—in the previous five years. That conflict of interest is obvious, so it is not worth trying the House’s patience. Put simply, if someone had been a senior general a month before they became the ombudsman, there would be a potential conflict of interest in the relationships they might have developed, so we think that a five year gap is sensible.

The second ingredient, which is in amendment 27, is to push for the term to be non-renewable. That is also about having no conflicts of interest: as the ombudsman do their job, they should not be perpetually thinking about how to get the job again. Our focus is on ensuring that they do the job clearly and crisply, without worrying about whether they will be reappointed—that is independence.

The second set of amendments, Nos. 28 to 32, deals with the freedom of the ombudsman. The Committee is pushing to ensure that the Ministry of Defence and the Defence Council do not put regulations or procedures in the way of the defence ombudsman or the Service Complaints Commissioner for the Armed Forces that prevent them from doing their job. We are trying to ensure that although the Ministry of Defence can set the parameters within which the ombudsman operates, it is not in a position to micromanage individual procedures. We believe that the Ministry of Defence should consult the ombudsman on regulations. Finally, on the question of power, we do not believe that the Ministry of Defence should be able to use confidentiality as a reason for denying access to the ombudsman, except in two particular cases: the personal safety of the individual and national security. Except in those cases, the ombudsman should have the scope to pursue an investigation.

The third conceptual issue for the Committee is about the power of the ombudsman. In amendments 33 to 35, we argue that the ombudsman’s recommendations should be binding on the Defence Council. The final conceptual issue is about scope, and amendment 36 touches on thematic reviews. In other words, should the ombudsman find a systemic issue—say, repeated examples of bullying—it may think it necessary to conduct a thematic review of the broader issues.

The Committee will not press the amendments to a vote because the Government have so far addressed them in a constructive fashion. We very much welcome the fact that they have accepted our major amendment to allow the ombudsman to look not simply at maladministration but at the substance of cases. We note that the Government, in appointing Nicola Williams, have already taken into account in practice many of the recommendations that the Committee wanted. We note that in the contract negotiations with her the Government have already ensured that the ombudsman appointed has not been in the armed forces during the previous five years—in fact, Nicola Williams has never been in the armed forces—which deals with our amendments 24 to 26. We note that the Government have said that the appointment will be non-renewable, which is our amendment 27. In practice, the appointment deals with the conflict of interests problem, and we understand that the Government will set out measures in regulations to deal with our anxieties about freedom, power and scope.

However, the Committee will of course watch the Government’s performance on such issues very carefully. Given that the Government do not want to agree to the amendments, that they assure us we can trust them and say that we should look at the precedent set by the appointment of Nicola Williams, and that they will introduce individual regulations to achieve all the measures that the Committee want, we will watch them very carefully. The Committee reserves the right to reintroduce the amendments, particularly in the Armed Forces Bill to be introduced in the next Parliament, if we believe the Government have reneged on what at the moment appears to be a commitment made in good faith, to ensure that the ombudsman’s principles are upheld.

--- Later in debate ---

[Rory Stewart]

I reiterate what the Defence Committee said, which is that the amendments are extremely important conceptual points relating to the independence of the ombudsman and conflict of interest; the power of the ombudsman; the freedom of the ombudsman to operate; and the scope of the ombudsman. We will not press the amendment to a vote at this time. That is a good will gesture to the Government, who have made a concession on an important amendment.

I also wish to take this opportunity to pay tribute to the hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon), who has been the guiding spirit and soul of this process from the beginning to the end. She has kept the Defence Committee focused and she has kept it honest. I hope that she feels a real sense of achievement at having got through this extremely important amendment.

[Mr Speaker]

For the avoidance of doubt, if the hon. Gentleman could just say the words that he seeks leave to withdraw the amendment.

[Rory Stewart]

I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 2

Reform of System for Redress of individual Grievances

Electoral Registration

Debate between Rory Stewart and John Bercow

Wednesday 4th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. He inquired whether there was a mechanism within the rules of order. As he well knows, there is, and he has just used it. It was 31 years three months ago that I first met the hon. Gentleman. All I will say about him tonight is that once a propagandist who seizes his moment, always a propagandist who seizes his moment.

[Rory Stewart (Penrith and The Border) (Con)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. There is a serious point underlying this matter, which is that the 2% figure is indeed what the UK Government have encouraged every other NATO country to contribute of GDP to defence. This 2% figure is essential both to UK national security and to our international reputation.

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman has reaffirmed the 2% point.

Speaker’s Statement

Debate between Rory Stewart and John Bercow

Wednesday 14th May 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I will now announce the result of the ballot held today for the election of a new Chair of the Select Committee on Defence: 479 votes were cast, with one spoilt ballot paper. The counting went to seven stages and 438 valid votes were cast in that round, excluding those ballot papers whose preferences had been exhausted. The quota to be reached was therefore 220 votes. Mr Rory Stewart was elected Chair, with 226 votes. The other candidate in that round was Dr Julian Lewis, who received 212 votes. Rory Stewart will take up his post immediately.

May I be the first, on behalf of all colleagues in the House, warmly to congratulate the hon. Gentleman? I am sure I speak for all colleagues when I thank all the other candidates who took part in the election. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear.”] The results of the count under the alternative vote system will be made available as soon as possible in the Vote Office and published on both the intranet and the internet for public viewing.

[Rory Stewart (Penrith and The Border) (Con)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I want to say a huge thank you. It has been an enormous privilege to stand alongside colleagues who have approached this in such a collegiate and kind fashion. I have so much to learn from them. I am a very young and inexperienced new Member and this is a very great honour. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Rory Stewart and John Bercow

Wednesday 18th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Last but not least, I call Mr Rory Stewart.

[Rory Stewart (Penrith and The Border) (Con)]

Christmas in Syria will be defined by unstopping grief and horror in sub-zero temperatures. I encourage the Prime Minister to keep a relentless focus on humanitarian relief in Syria, to encourage the rest of the international community to meet the UN’s demands for £4 billion of assistance, and to ensure that that assistance is much more imaginative and generous.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Rory Stewart and John Bercow

Tuesday 9th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Rory Stewart (Penrith and The Border) (Con)]

Will the Secretary of State please clarify the way in which foreign policy can really drive defence policy institutionally, and in particular, could you define the relationship between the National Security Council and the Joint Intelligence Committee?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I cannot, but I feel sure that the Foreign Secretary can.

Strategic Defence and Security Review

Debate between Rory Stewart and John Bercow

Tuesday 19th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. These are hugely important matters, and I should like to accommodate some more colleagues, but greater brevity is now vital.

[Rory Stewart (Penrith and The Border) (Con)]

One of the fundamental problems of the last eight to 10 years has been the split between foreign policy and defence. Will the Prime Minister please tell us what steps are being taken to ensure that not just the National Security Council, but the Joint Intelligence Committee and the Foreign Office, really drive us to have the right resources and the right priorities?