Draft Unified Patent Court (Immunities and Privileges) Order 2017
Debate between Lord Johnson of Marylebone and Angela Eagle(6 years, 4 months ago)
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Joseph Johnson
Through the passage of the order and completing all the necessary legislative steps in Parliament, we want to ensure that we are in a position to ratify the UPC and our membership of it, thus enabling it to come into existence. As the hon. Gentleman and Members know, under the terms of the international treaty, UK ratification is required for the UPC to come into existence, and we want the court to come into existence. We have been supporters of it from the outset, and we think it will play an important role in enabling businesses to enforce their intellectual property rights at the lowest possible cost, or certainly at a much lower cost than many companies find to be the case at the moment. We are supportive of it, and we want to continue to play a facilitating role in setting it up.
After we leave the European Union in March 2019, we understand that we will have to negotiate a new relationship with the UPC. We want to do that as seamlessly as possible so that businesses can continue to take advantage of the provisions that the UPC makes possible. Our expectation is that the long-term relationship we will have to establish after March 2019 will be subject to some negotiation. I and the Government as a whole do not want to go into the detail of exactly what that relationship will be at this point.
Ms Angela Eagle
We all agree that the court should be set up. Because of the delay in Germany it is unlikely to be up and running much before the middle of next year, if things go well with the constitutional court there. That leaves us less than a year to get the institution up and running before we have to have a major renegotiation of our relationship with it.
In response to one of my initial questions, the Minister said that he is not in a position to give us any particular view on that because he, his Department and the whole Government will be much too busy concentrating on the bigger Brexit things. Is he of the view that the court and, much more importantly, our participation in it can continue without the legal changes we will clearly have to negotiate to remain a member once we are outside the European Union?
The Chair
Order. I remind Members that the order is essentially about the privileges of the key figures of the court. While I have allowed the debate to range to other issues around it, it would be helpful if we could focus on the order and if the Minister could relate his reply to the specific issues relevant to the order and the hon. Lady’s comments.
Joseph Johnson
Thank you, Mr Bailey, I will try to do that. Returning to the hon. Lady’s question, the order is made under the International Organisations Act 1968. It does not relate to EU legislation, nor does it rely on the European Communities Act 1972. The order will therefore not need to be preserved by the EU (Withdrawal) Bill at exit to remain UK law, so it will continue. As the hon. Lady knows, the UPC agreement is an international treaty, not an EU treaty. It will not need to be converted into UK law by the EU (Withdrawal) Bill for it to continue to apply.
To summarise all the points on Brexit, whatever the UK’s future relationship with the UPC, we will need to negotiate with our European partners to reflect the change to the UK’s status when we leave the EU. We want the court to come into existence. That is why we are facilitating it by putting ourselves in a position where we can ratify it. We understand that there are issues in other countries whose ratification is necessary; we hope that they can be overcome so that this court can come into existence and do the job we all want it to do.
Ms Angela Eagle
The privileges issue is clearly important. We cannot have the court without this order, which is why we all support it, but I hope the Minister will reassure me that we can continue to use this court with all its privileges if we are out of the European Union. The House of Commons Library note on this issue includes some worrying or at least alarming views from European law experts who say that we will not be able to remain in the court appropriately after Brexit before we have changed the law—we will not be able to just carry on having the court run. That might mean that people in our country cannot have access to its benefits until the Government ensure that they have entered into new legal agreements with the other signatories. Would he confirm that that is the case and say something about whether the order ensures that we will continue to have access to the court’s benefits, which we all want, without Parliament having to come back—
Unified Patent Court (Immunities and Privileges) Order 2017
Debate between Lord Johnson of Marylebone and Angela Eagle(6 years, 4 months ago)
General CommitteesRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Joseph Johnson
Through the passage of the order and completing all the necessary legislative steps in Parliament, we want to ensure that we are in a position to ratify the UPC and our membership of it, thus enabling it to come into existence. As the hon. Gentleman and Members know, under the terms of the international treaty, UK ratification is required for the UPC to come into existence, and we want the court to come into existence. We have been supporters of it from the outset, and we think it will play an important role in enabling businesses to enforce their intellectual property rights at the lowest possible cost, or certainly at a much lower cost than many companies find to be the case at the moment. We are supportive of it, and we want to continue to play a facilitating role in setting it up.
After we leave the European Union in March 2019, we understand that we will have to negotiate a new relationship with the UPC. We want to do that as seamlessly as possible so that businesses can continue to take advantage of the provisions that the UPC makes possible. Our expectation is that the long-term relationship we will have to establish after March 2019 will be subject to some negotiation. I and the Government as a whole do not want to go into the detail of exactly what that relationship will be at this point.
Ms Angela Eagle
We all agree that the court should be set up. Because of the delay in Germany it is unlikely to be up and running much before the middle of next year, if things go well with the constitutional court there. That leaves us less than a year to get the institution up and running before we have to have a major renegotiation of our relationship with it.
In response to one of my initial questions, the Minister said that he is not in a position to give us any particular view on that because he, his Department and the whole Government will be much too busy concentrating on the bigger Brexit things. Is he of the view that the court and, much more importantly, our participation in it can continue without the legal changes we will clearly have to negotiate to remain a member once we are outside the European Union?
The Chair
Order. I remind Members that the order is essentially about the privileges of the key figures of the court. While I have allowed the debate to range to other issues around it, it would be helpful if we could focus on the order and if the Minister could relate his reply to the specific issues relevant to the order and the hon. Lady’s comments.
Joseph Johnson
Thank you, Mr Bailey, I will try to do that. Returning to the hon. Lady’s question, the order is made under the International Organisations Act 1968. It does not relate to EU legislation, nor does it rely on the European Communities Act 1972. The order will therefore not need to be preserved by the EU (Withdrawal) Bill at exit to remain UK law, so it will continue. As the hon. Lady knows, the UPC agreement is an international treaty, not an EU treaty. It will not need to be converted into UK law by the EU (Withdrawal) Bill for it to continue to apply.
To summarise all the points on Brexit, whatever the UK’s future relationship with the UPC, we will need to negotiate with our European partners to reflect the change to the UK’s status when we leave the EU. We want the court to come into existence. That is why we are facilitating it by putting ourselves in a position where we can ratify it. We understand that there are issues in other countries whose ratification is necessary; we hope that they can be overcome so that this court can come into existence and do the job we all want it to do.
Ms Angela Eagle
The privileges issue is clearly important. We cannot have the court without this order, which is why we all support it, but I hope the Minister will reassure me that we can continue to use this court with all its privileges if we are out of the European Union. The House of Commons Library note on this issue includes some worrying or at least alarming views from European law experts who say that we will not be able to remain in the court appropriately after Brexit before we have changed the law—we will not be able to just carry on having the court run. That might mean that people in our country cannot have access to its benefits until the Government ensure that they have entered into new legal agreements with the other signatories. Would he confirm that that is the case and say something about whether the order ensures that we will continue to have access to the court’s benefits, which we all want, without Parliament having to come back—
Education, Skills and Training
Debate between Lord Johnson of Marylebone and Angela Eagle(7 years, 11 months ago)
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Joseph Johnson
We certainly agree with all that. Universities are at the heart of many of the most successful LEPs, and we want their good work to stimulate economic growth and relevant provision of higher education by universities in their local areas. That is why at the heart of the Bill are powers to make it easier for high-quality new universities and challenger institutions to enter the sector and award degrees, to drive up quality and to give applicants more choice about where and how to study.
Some say, “Close the door to new universities. Put the cap back on student numbers. Restrict the benefits of higher education to a narrow elite.” The same arguments have been made at every period of university expansion. In the 1820s, University College London and King’s were dismissed as “cockney” universities. Today, they are globally renowned. Those arguments were heard when the civic colleges in Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool, Leeds, Sheffield and Bristol became red-brick universities before the first world war, and when the Conservative Government of John Major took through Parliament the 1992 legislation that created a wave of new universities from the polytechnics.
Joseph Johnson
In a minute. We need more universities again today. Universities are great engines of social mobility and formidable drivers of regional economic growth. That is why I was so pleased to welcome the announcement of the new University of Suffolk, and it is why I am so supportive of the Hereford plans. Those are just two good examples of the challenger institutions that we have in mind to open up the sector to new, high-quality entrants.
We welcome support for our proposals from sensible figures, such as Lord Mandelson—now chancellor of Manchester Metropolitan, which is one of those institutions that gained university status, thanks to a Conservative Government, in 1992—who have recognised the essential contribution that a wide range of institutions can make to our economic success and to social mobility.
Ms Eagle
Thank goodness for that. Just to make it clear to the hon. Gentleman, Labour Members do not object to expanding the university sector. We do have questions, and rightly, about the speed with which that will be done, how probationary status will work and what kind of gamble that will represent. We will go on asking those questions, but the hon. Gentleman should not set up a straw man or woman and accuse us of being against expansion. We are not, but it has to be of high quality.
Joseph Johnson
I am delighted that the shadow Secretary of State is supportive of new entrants and new challenger institutions. They are exactly what the sector needs, and I am glad that we have established the important point of principle that the Labour party is supportive of new entrants into the sector and believes in competition. That is a good thing, and I am delighted to hear it.