Adam Jogee
Main Page: Adam Jogee (Labour - Newcastle-under-Lyme)(1 week, 3 days ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate
Dame Meg Hillier
I was talking about Hackney Church Brew Co., and many of the other independent breweries underneath the arches.
Adam Jogee
I am conscious that I have spoken a lot, but before my hon. Friend was interrupted by the statement she said that she would like to arrange for Members of the House to visit one of her breweries. My hon. Friend the Member for Kensington and Bayswater (Joe Powell) has said that he will happily get the first round, so may I encourage my hon. Friend to get arranging sooner rather than later?
Dame Meg Hillier
Everybody is always welcome to Hackney South and Shoreditch—it is the centre of the universe, although others may disagree with me. It is only half an hour by bike or public transport from this place, so I highly recommend it—a good night out will be had by all!
The new breweries and pubs are bucking the trend in hospitality, and the archway areas are becoming hubs for other businesses. High streets can be challenging, but in Hackney our high streets still do reasonably well, partly because although Hackney is often described as being very hip, cool and expensive—and that is true—it is still achingly poor. One in two children live in poverty, although thanks to the Government’s changes on child poverty hopefully that will reduce, and nearly 60% of people live in social housing, many in overcrowded conditions. The arches are part of what might be called “new Hackney”, but they build on the old traditions.
Saint Monday is an innovative brewery that combines brewing with heavy metal, so any heavy metal fans here can get a bit of real ale and heavy metal in the same place. Great Beyond taproom and brewery, another archway-based business, was set up by Ollie, Nick and John, three beer-loving friends. They do some amazing work and people can buy great Shoreditch and Hackney-made beer there. I forget which bar serves which beer—perhaps we need to do a crawl of all the ones named after Hoxton and Shoreditch? That alone would keep us busy.
The Howling Hops brewery brews on site as well, and I really like the 40ft Brewery in Dalston, which I go to every now and again. The name 40ft refers to that fact that it is based in two 20-foot shipping containers, so not arches this time. That would not reach the heritage standards set out by the hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire, but there is interesting new heritage coming through in our breweries. Many breweries offer tours, including Signature Brew and Five Points, so if people are thinking about gifts as we approach the festive season, I highly recommend a visit to Hackney and a tour of one of the breweries. This shows the modern culture that is coming through. Some of the breweries are in heritage buildings, and the arches have their own heritage, but the challenge would be whether they qualify under the provisions set out in the hon. Gentleman’s Bill.
I want to talk a little about assets of community value. When I read the Bill for the first time, I was trying to find what was specifically different about the provisions relating to assets of community value. The hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire outlined some of that in his speech, so I am now a little wiser to his thinking. Assets of community value were introduced in the Localism Act 2011. It provides communities with a route to nominate and retain any building or land, such as heritage pubs, that they feel
“furthers the social wellbeing or social interests of the local community”.
Local authorities are responsible for ensuring that those schemes are run in accordance with the legislation, as set out in part 5, chapter 3 of the Localism Act 2011 and the Assets of Community Value (England) Regulations 2012. That includes making decisions on whether a nominated asset meets the definition of an asset of community value, as set out in the Act.
Although I have no scepticism about the hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire’s intent, which a lot of us share, I remain sceptical about the Bill. The Government are already strengthening the assets of community value scheme, which I am sure the Minister will go into in her remarks, through provisions in the English Devolution and Community Empowerment Act 2026. That will introduce a new community right to buy that covers some of the provisions in the Bill, including, from memory, clause 9 about how people can put in a bid to own a property. Communities will have the first opportunity to purchase an asset if it is put up for sale by its owner. They will have 12 months to raise funding and there will be an independent valuation process to ensure a fair price, so that negotiation is successful. That is close to a lot of the provisions in today’s Bill, so he is welcome to intervene and tell me why he thinks his Bill is different.
Lincoln Jopp (Spelthorne) (Con)
On my way home last night, I popped in at the Three Horseshoes in Shepperton—because it is on the way. This morning, when I was driving into work with my wife, she said, “What are you doing in Parliament today?” I said, “I am supporting the British pub industry.” She said, deadpan, “Trust me, you’re doing your bit already.”
The debate today has been quite long, and I would like to draw attention to the comments by the hon. Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Adam Jogee). I would be very happy to take an intervention from him, because the official figures are in and, having checked Hansard, it seems that he mentioned Spelthorne in his speech more frequently than he mentioned his own constituency. If he wants to stand up and intervene on me so he can say the name of his constituency a few more times to even up the scores, I will of course take that intervention.
Adam Jogee
It is a case of a first time for everything: I do not think I can be accused of not making the case for Newcastle-under-Lyme as often as I can, Madam Deputy Speaker.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)
Order. Just to remind Mr Jopp: there are many more colleagues in the Chamber than Mr Adam Jogee.
Markus Campbell-Savours
As I have already commented, the community in Ireby did a community share offer and have been through that process. Having gone through that process, it made it all the more disappointing that they were unable to access any additional money. But they keep fighting on—and will keep fighting on until they have secured what they need.
For isolated rural communities, those pubs are not luxuries; they are infrastructure. At a time when bus services are disappearing in rural areas, village amenities continue to decline and opportunities for social interaction are becoming increasingly limited, the local pub can be among the last remaining public spaces that bind the community together.
The people of Ireby have done everything that could reasonably be expected of them: they organised, volunteered, raised the money, built a plan and secured community support. My question to the Minister at the end of my boring speech, if it has not been clear, is, “What comes next?” If we are serious about helping communities save heritage pubs—or any pub—we cannot simply give them more time. We should also ensure that they have a realistic opportunity and funding to succeed.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)
Is it to do with this debate?
Adam Jogee
It is. On a point of order, the hon. Member for Spelthorne (Lincoln Jopp)—in the pink shirt with a constituency in Surrey—intervened on my speech earlier, which led me to mention his constituency in my remarks. The hon. Member must correct the record. He said that I mentioned his constituency more than my own, which is of course nonsense and untrue. I have just checked Hansard and my notes: I made 20 references to Newcastle-under-Lyme, 14 specific references to areas in Staffordshire, six references to individual areas in Newcastle-under-Lyme, and six references to the hon. Member’s constituency. How can the hon. Member correct the record and ensure that an apology is given to me and my constituents?
Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)
Mr Jogee, I am not sure that that is a good use of a point of order, but you have indeed corrected the record yourself. We will not continue this in the overall debate, so there is no need for a point of order from Mr Jopp.
Sarah Hall
It is an incredibly valued and unusual pub, which is very much loved in the community. I would welcome anyone coming along to see it.
If we want to understand why pubs and brewing matters to Warrington, we have to look beyond buildings and planning applications to the events that bring people together. One example of that is Warrington Oktoberfest. Last week, I sponsored a barrel at this year’s event.
Sarah Hall
Yes, and it was excellent. Many people know Oktoberfest as a chance to enjoy great beer, live music and time with friends, but Warrington Oktoberfest is much more than that. At its heart, it is a community-led charity event that has brought people together for nearly three decades while raising money for good causes locally and internationally.
The festival, held at the local Parr Hall, began with a relatively small gathering of real ale enthusiasts 30 years ago. The idea came from Cliff Houghton, a member of Warrington rotary club who was also a master brewer at a local brewery. Through the commitment of volunteers, that modest initiative grew into a major fixture in Warrington’s calendar, offering a wide range of beers, ciders and entertainment, and opportunities for people to come together. Since the festival’s inception, it has raised more than £350,000 for charity.
Adam Jogee
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way; she is giving me a run for my money in terms of the length of her contribution. Does she agree that the description she has just shared with the House, on the importance of breweries, pubs and so on to her community, extends right across the United Kingdom? On Wednesday, I was in Derry/Londonderry with the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee. We went to a brewery there and met the family running it. We saw the blood, sweat and tears that they put into it. As much as we are enjoying Warrington, I wanted her to give thought to breweries and pubs right across the United Kingdom.
Sarah Hall
I suppose I can do that, but Warrington is superior—we know that. [Laughter.]
Our heritage deserves to be protected, understood and passed on to each generation. For Warrington South, the stakes are not theoretical. They concern the preservation of our industrial history, the future of our independent brewing and the places where our communities continue to meet. The ultimate measure of success will not be how many pubs we place on a register, but how effectively we protect the heritage that matters, how many communities are given a genuine opportunity to save the places they value, and whether those places can continue to play a living part in our towns and villages.
Kevin Bonavia
My hon. Friend, also from Hertfordshire, makes a really important point. There are lessons to be learnt from new towns, including how we place pubs at the heart of our community. Stevenage is salutary in that respect. When the pioneers of Stevenage put our town together, they thought very carefully about the place. Many people deride the concept of 15-minute towns as some kind of conspiracy to try to keep us trapped in our homes—far from it. The pioneers of Stevenage thought that community centres had to be no more than 15 minutes from where people live, and at the heart of that community neighbourhood would be the pub. In every neighbourhood you go to in Stevenage, you will find a pub—or a former pub, and that is the point.
Adam Jogee
I am enjoying listening to my hon. Friend talk about his new town. My town is an old town; it received its charter from King Henry II in 1173. Does he agree that it is not just in new towns where we see examples of the contribution that pubs can make, but in ancient towns like Newcastle-under-Lyme?
Kevin Bonavia
I am very happy to agree with my hon. Friend. As I was just about to say, I represent the UK’s first post-war new town, but it is built around an old town, in which I live, that still has 10 pubs along its high street. That high street is part of the Great North Road from London to Edinburgh. It was the first overnight stop for coaches, and we still have examples of coaching inns, the Red Lion being the most famous. In the old town we also have the Mulberry Tree, which was once the White Lion. My hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh East and Musselburgh (Chris Murray) talked about the Tolbooth Tavern on the Royal Mile having been a prison, among other things. The White Lion was also a prison, for Napoleonic prisoners of war 200 years ago. It became a vestry and a fire station, and it is now perhaps the liveliest pub down the high street on a Friday night.
Where I live, the pubs on our high street are thriving—as I said, we have 10—but across the new town, where the nearest pub should be 15 minutes’ walk away, some of those pubs have gone, such as the Twin Foxes. The oldest pub in the new town, in Bedwell, is now a block of flats, which is a salutary warning from many years ago that ensuring that pubs survive is really difficult.
Kevin Bonavia
My hon. Friend makes a really important point. The hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire says that the Bill is for pubs that are beyond the age of 150, but the fact is that the implications of wording matter in legislation. I would have framed the Bill in a different way. More importantly, we do not always have to introduce new laws in this place; we should think about how we can better implement the laws that already exist. I will turn to that in the final part of my contribution.
On heritage, and new places that will become future heritage pubs, the Six Hills Taproom in Stevenage’s old town has a nod to its heritage. Its most famous brand of microbrew beer is the Six Hills brand.
Adam Jogee
I am very interested to hear about that brewery. What would my hon. Friend order if he were there now?
Kevin Bonavia
I was there last week. It does samples of all its beers and I tried a few tiny samples, although I made sure not to have too much. I currently like its stout, which I would recommend as my personal favourite. It is all named after the six hills, which anyone who comes into Stevenage will see. They are Roman burial mounds, so it is a nod to Stevenage’s ancient heritage—we are far more than just a new town.
Across our new town, what we do with our pubs is important. We are not supposed to talk about politics in pubs, but I wholly disagree with that. Before I became an MP, and since I have been one, I have been promoting pints with politics in local pubs—“Have a bev with Kev”—and, importantly, local residents have come in. Some people older than me who have never voted have come to say, “Why should I vote? What is this politics thing all about?” In a place like this we might almost belittle that, but we absolutely should not. We must get into our communities, and there is no better way than getting into our pubs. That is why it is so important that we in this place protect and enhance our pubs.
Kevin Bonavia
I am sure that all Members of the House do our best to get out to wherever our constituents are, and there is no better place than the local pub. Beyond Stevenage, I also represent four villages: Knebworth, Codicote, Datchworth and Aston. In Knebworth we have the Station, which is a pub that was not going to survive. It was built around the station over 100 years ago, and it became an asset of community value when councillors, residents and the parish council came together and were able to buy it. Members are welcome to pop into the Station if they are lucky enough to have a ticket to Oasis, who are playing six concerts at Knebworth Park next summer.
Kevin Bonavia
My hon. Friend asks whether I will be attending, and I really hope that I can, but whether or not people are there for Oasis, they should please come and see Knebworth. Before Oasis made their name in Knebworth in 1996 they started out in a pub, the Man in the Moon, in Stevenage.
Adam Jogee
While my hon. Friend thinks about the contribution he is about to make, the hon. Member for Melksham and Devizes (Brian Mathew) and I had the pleasure of visiting my hon. Friend’s constituency not that long ago. The sad thing is, we did not manage to visit a pub. If we had, which one should we have gone to?
Dr Prinsley
I am grateful for that question; I shall answer it.
In April 1911, The Bury and Norwich Post listed 79 hostelries in Bury. By 2019, there were only 21. Here is a little ditty about them:
“The ‘Three Kings’ joined in the sport and chased him round a ‘Wheatsheaf’ to the ‘Suffolk Hunt’ onto ‘Cupola House’ where the ‘Red Lion’ stopped their sport. Looking for more fun a ‘Swan’ was seen near the ‘Elephant and Castle’ looking for the ‘Market Tavern’ when the ‘Old Angel’ came along and led it astray to the ‘Rutland Arms’ and sent for the ‘Shepherd and Dog’ to convey it to the ‘Railway Tavern’ to be packed up with the ‘Saracen’s Head’ and sent as a present to the ‘Cricketers’ (who were having dinner at the ‘Dog and Partridge’).
On their way, the ‘Ram’ saw the ‘Half Moon’ in the ‘Nutshell’ and did a ‘Star’ performance amongst the old curiosities, knocking down ‘Three Horse Shoes’, exploding an old ‘Cannon’ and blowing off the ‘Kings Arms’ which were sent to the ‘Joiners Arms’ to be repaired; after which he went to the ‘New Inn’ for refreshments which made him a bit lively and getting all the ‘Taps’ to join him they went to the ‘Suffolk Shades’ to empty the ‘Gallon Can’ which they did to their sorrow for the police had to send them to ‘Ipswich (Arms)’ to get sober. They were last seen near the ‘Tollgate’ singing, we are all ‘Jolly Good Fellows’ and that’s that!”
I apologise for reading that out.
Adam Jogee
I really enjoyed that, but the one thing my hon. Friend did not do was answer the question I put to him before he performed, which was: where should the hon. Member for Melksham and Devizes and I have gone when we were in his constituency?
Dr Prinsley
My hon. Friend must have a moment more patience, for I am coming to that.
Pubs have been at the heart of life in Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket for centuries. They are part of our history, our local economy and our communities, and my constituency has no shortage of remarkable stories to tell.
Greene King has brewed in Bury St Edmunds since 1799. Its Level Head beer has made it into the Strangers Bar. I feel that the Chancellor should be offered a pint before the Budget, for if ever there was a speech that required a level head, that is surely it.
But Greene King is not living on its history. Last year, I joined the company as work began on its new £40 million brewery at the Suffolk business park, which will be completed next spring. It will keep brewing in Bury St Edmunds, sustain local employment and make production more sustainable. Now, that is heritage and growth working together.
At the all-party parliamentary beer group dinner to which I referred, Mr Nick Mackenzie, the chief executive of Greene King, was sitting at my table and was given the Community Hero award for the actions that Greene King has taken in the community in Bury St Edmunds. It is a fantastic local business. I mentioned that to our former Prime Minister, who said that he would be content to come and open the brewery when it opens next spring. I said to him, “All we need to do now is organise a parliamentary piss-up in a brewery,” and he said, “What could possibly go wrong?”