Water and Sewerage Charges (South West Water)

Debate between Adrian Sanders and Alison Seabeck

Wednesday 9th March 2011 Westminster Hall

[Mr Sanders]

I only half-share the right hon. Gentleman’s view, because Ofwat is the body that should protect the consumer and it has allowed South West Water to raise charges by the amounts that I described.

[Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab)]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman’s assessment that Ofwat’s role in this regard is key, although I also accept the points made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw). I have just received an e-mail from one of my constituents that makes exactly the same point as the hon. Gentleman. My constituent says that he lives in a three-bedroom house; there are two residents, and he has received a bill for more than £1,000 for the coming year. Ofwat has agreed these prices. My constituent’s question is, “Do they realise just how much individual customers are having to pay and the impact on those households?” I urge the Minister to look again—please—at the role of Ofwat in all this.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Sanders]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. In my constituency of Torbay, the unitary authority area now has a gross value added level lower than Cornwall’s was when it qualified for objective 1 assistance, and there are other such pockets in the south-west.

[Alison Seabeck]

I would like to reinforce the hon. Gentleman’s point. Does he not agree that, with the current increase in water rates, we will see more pensioners, particularly in the area around Torbay and in my constituency of Plymouth Moor View, falling back down below the poverty line? The Government would not want to see that happen, but undoubtedly they will.

[Mr Sanders]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right on that point.

If Ofwat is not supportive, we at least have political unity around the idea that something more than a social tariff and something specific to the south-west needs to be done, and I need only consult the Hansard report from a previous debate on this very issue, in January 2010, to see that. In that debate, we had the support of the then Labour Members for Plymouth and some warm words from the then Minister with responsibility for water, the hon. Member for Ogmore. The right hon. Member for West Dorset (Mr Letwin), who is now one of the Prime Minister’s chief aides, stated that

“there seems to be a strong case for some kind of spreading of cost”—[Official Report, 27 January 2010; Vol. 504, c. 323WH.]

The Liberal Democrats have, of course, championed the cause for many years. I see that I am joined today by Members from all parties, who are united in wanting to get something done for their long-suffering constituents, and I hope that many of them will be able to contribute later in the debate.

The overarching problem, which Walker ably demonstrates, stems from privatisation. On privatisation, South West Water had the smallest asset base—what was called the regulatory capital value—per customer, and it now has the highest, at 210%. South West Water customers will therefore pay far more for longer. If that situation were to occur in any other utility it would be outrageous, but for some reason successive Governments have tolerated it in the water industry. The previous Government sadly never understood the damage caused by the failed privatisation. I describe it as failed not because the water companies have not provided a good service—on the whole they have—but because it has simply not delivered a market, not even a heavily regulated one. No domestic consumer can choose between water companies, and instead of being reinvested fully in the service, the surplus created is converted into profit for shareholders. The water customers in the south-west do not like that, and I suspect that if it happened to other regions they would not like it either.

That brings me to some potential hope in this doom and gloom. We have a new Government. We are in the era of new politics, and appear to have a listening Government, and so I invite the Minister to join in this spirit of new politics and listen to the people of the south-west. If he spoke to them, they would tell him that they do not want just a social tariff or some adjustments around the edges, but a fair and transparent system, whereby they pay the same as everyone else in the UK for the water and sewerage services they use.

The Minister’s party was in power at the time, so he might not join me in wishing that privatisation had never happened in this industry, but I hope that he will acknowledge that it was carried out in a wrong-headed way. The company in the south-west needed a much bigger customer base, and needed to be compensated for the poor state of its infrastructure. If the Minister does join me in this, I hope that he can take the next logical step and support something that addresses these historical problems and lifts the unfairness. I particularly mention unfairness because it is important not to conflate it with affordability, and it would be very foolish if the Government pretended that addressing the problem of water poverty also solved that of unfairness. I shall give an example to illustrate the problem. A family earning £35,000 would never come under the scope of WaterSure or any improved social tariff. They would, however, feel incredibly aggrieved if they had to pay anything up to £400 more for exactly the same service and product than if they lived anywhere else in the country, and that insult is made worse by the fact that the service is a basic necessity.

I understand, however, the Minister’s difficulty in being able to give concrete answers to many of the questions that will be raised today. There will necessarily be input from the Treasury as well as from No. 10, and in a way it is a shame that we cannot have Ministers from both Departments—the Treasury and DEFRA—here today, as some might argue that the solution is to be found at the Treasury. The Treasury can make or break another Department’s plans, but I hope that the Minister is pushing the case both for a social tariff and, more importantly, a solution to the south-west injustice.

Overall, we know the problem. Water bills for all customers in the south-west are far too high, as a result of the way in which the industry was privatised. We need a structural solution, through Government intervention, to remedy that unfairness. I am not sure how much detail the Minister can give in response, but I want him to recognise the difference between addressing water poverty and addressing unfairness. I hope that he can restore, or shall we say maintain, my faith, and that of others, in this Government, by promising to address both those issues.

[Alison Seabeck]

On a point of order, Mr Amess. To avoid any possible misunderstanding, I should draw Members’ attention to an entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests by my right hon. Friend the Member for Greenwich and Woolwich (Mr Raynsford), in whom I have an indirect interest: he is my partner.

Fire Safety (Protection of Tenants) Bill

Debate between Adrian Sanders and Alison Seabeck

Friday 19th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Adrian Sanders (Torbay) (LD)]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

I wish to declare an interest as the part-owner of two properties, one of which is currently rented out. I want to thank many groups and individuals who have assisted in the creation of the Bill. Chief among them has been the sterling contribution of the Devon and Somerset fire and rescue service—both the officers and the chairman of the authority, Conservative Councillor Mark Healey. There have been contributions from fire officers around the country, landlord and tenant groups, the fire safety industry and many others. Also, I want to thank the hon. Members for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) and for Plymouth, Moor View (Alison Seabeck), both from Devon, who have given their support to the Bill.

Today, over 80% of homes have smoke alarms, compared with 9% in 1987, and between 1988 and 2008 fire deaths halved. There are, though, far too many deaths and injuries from fire. In the last year for which figures are available, 331 people died as a result of residential fires. Of these, 222—two thirds—occurred when there was no working smoke alarm. In 137 cases there was no detection system at all. Is it not possible to argue that a working smoke alarm could have saved one of those 222 lives or helped prevent one of the 9,066 non-fatal casualties from that year?

Although substantial progress has been made in recent years, we are in danger of retrenchment. The spending review has brought substantial cuts to the Government’s awareness campaigns, and fire authorities across the country are contemplating bringing an end to programmes such as providing free battery-operated smoke alarms, as budget cuts take hold. Many fire authorities have carried out sterling work, not only increasing public awareness of the need to have working alarms, but through a range of other fire safety measures. I pay tribute to the hard work of Devon and Somerset fire and rescue service on a range of prevention activities. Indeed, following a serious fire in my constituency, the authority installed more than 1,200 new smoke alarms in just two months.

Building regulations currently dictate that new build, extensions and alterations should be equipped with hard-wired smoke alarms. Furniture regulations also play their part in reducing avoidable domestic fires or lessening their impact. Figures show that as awareness of fire safety increases, deaths and injuries decrease. Yet casualties are preventable, and fires, sadly, continue. We have seen a number of tragic fire deaths in recent months, quite often involving rented properties. There are gaps in the regulations governing fire prevention. Outside of houses in multiple occupation it is only guidance or good practice that governs the provision of smoke and fire detection.

The majority of landlords in the private and social sectors ensure that smoke alarms are available. They not only provide safety and reassurance for tenants, but are in the interests of landlords. Many landlords to whom I have spoken have been under the false impression that fitting smoke alarms is already a statutory duty. However, a minority of rented homes do not have smoke alarms, and they may well hold some of the most vulnerable members of our society. There is a correlation between the propensity for fire and the lack of fire safety devices. In 2001, the Association of British Insurers highlighted the fact that 81% of homes in total had smoke alarms, but less than 60% of homes suffering fires had alarms.

Promoting voluntary good practice among landlords has been very positive. The number of landlords becoming accredited is increasing, which offers tenants reassurance not only that their property will be relatively safer, but that the landlord appreciates the duty of care they have towards tenants. However, in my constituency, only an estimated 5% of landlords have become accredited, and only an estimated 15% are members of the excellent and highly professional landlords association in south Devon, of which I am a member. Sadly, the majority of private sector landlords do not join landlords associations, where best practice can be shared and standards raised. The good landlords pay a heavy price in reputation for the actions of the bad.

Social housing providers also need to ensure that they are working to best practice. When a recent house fire in my constituency highlighted the issue of fire safety, it was found that about one quarter of the houses belonging to the largest social housing provider, Riviera Housing Trust, had no smoke alarm. Much to its credit, the trust has now pledged to ensure that all properties have working smoke alarms. However, if a housing association can provide a service to vulnerable people without needing to ensure safety from fire, Government guidelines are clearly lacking.

[Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab)]

I am listening intently to the hon. Gentleman’s comments. Will he tell the House exactly what conversations he has had with Ministers in the Department for Communities and Local Government, either on the housing or the fire side, about the nature of his Bill?

[Mr Sanders]

Since the Bill was published—four and a half months ago—I have made repeated attempts to arrange a meeting with the Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, the hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill), who has responsibility for fire, but I have met another junior Minister, who kindly allowed me to talk things through with civil servants. However, I was shocked this morning when the Under-Secretary said to me that if I withdrew my Bill, I could have a meeting with him. That was an insult to the people who have died in fires and their relatives.

The key word is “guidelines”. The housing health and safety rating system highlights 29 factors that may be taken into consideration by local authorities when assessing risk to all residential properties. If fire is seen as a category 1 hazard, enforcement action can be taken. Other guidance documents over recent years have stressed the importance of smoke alarms, but still local authorities are free to do as little about it as they wish. A number of cases have highlighted the need for better regulation. At an inquest into a fatal fire in Yarcombe near Honiton in Devon in May 2008, the coroner resolved to contact DCLG Ministers urging them to review whether smoke detection could be made mandatory in rented domestic dwellings. To date, DCLG has not responded positively.

Earlier this year, there were fire deaths in two incidents in Northumberland, at Ashington and Bedlington. Three people died in total and in neither fire were there any working alarms. In September, an elderly woman died in a fire in Porlock, Somerset. Again the fire authority found no smoke alarms. Indeed, fire officers have told me that they have never attended a fatal fire where working smoke alarms have been present, and the number of cases reported in the local press of smoke alarms saving families from death and/or injury is significant. There should be a straightforward solution to this problem.

In 2004, the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister Committee, of which I was a member, produced a report on the fire service with the following recommendation:

“We believe that functioning smoke alarms save lives and reduce injuries. The Committee congratulates those Fire Services which operate initiatives to fit free smoke alarms for the vulnerable. We welcome the requirement for alarms to be hard-wired in alterations, extensions and new buildings. We recommend this requirement be extended to include all existing tenanted properties, housing of multiple occupation and housing for vulnerable members of society. If the design of such buildings makes installation of hard-wired alarms impossible, we recommend use of alarms fitted with 10 year batteries.”

This Bill seeks to implement the Select Committee’s recommendations, which are still on the table, six years later. It will ensure that all landlords provide a working hard-wired fire detection system at the start of any tenancy agreement. That will be a legal requirement, in the same way that a landlord must have the gas system certified annually, an electrical safety check, and an energy performance certificate. From commencement of the tenancy, responsibility shifts to the tenant, who should refrain from causing damage to the system, and report any problems punctually, in the same way that the vast majority of tenants already do with all aspects of their home. As one of the Devon and Somerset fire officers said, when someone buys a car, it has to come with a seat belt. After that, it is the responsibility of the driver to use it properly. The same applies to smoke alarms. It seems eminently sensible that rented properties should be safe at the start of a tenancy, but it is equally sensible that the tenant should take responsibility for their safety after that.

Water Bills (South-West)

Debate between Adrian Sanders and Alison Seabeck

Monday 14th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to be the first to raise this issue in the new Parliament on behalf of water bill payers in Plymouth and the wider south-west. The problem we face is simple: water rates in the south-west are 25% higher than the UK average, placing an unfair burden on the budgets of my constituents and all residents across the south-west of England. This is an issue that dates back to the botched privatisation of water utility companies in the late 1980s, and it is to the shame of all parties that the problem remains unresolved after so many years, despite the constant efforts of right hon. and hon. Members from the south-west to keep the matter high on the agenda of the Minister’s Department.

I am pleased to welcome the new Minister, and I am pleased to see so many Members from other parties in their places tonight, including the hon. Member for St Ives (Andrew George), who is the new joint chair of the all-party water group, and the hon. Member for Newton Abbot (Anne Marie Morris), who is carrying on the active interest in water pricing shown by her predecessor. I hope that by the end of this debate we will have been able to put on record some of the options for consideration, including a levy proposal.

It would be remiss of me not to place on record the thanks due for the unstinting efforts and enthusiasm of my former colleague, Linda Gilroy, who not only chaired a very active all-party water group, but individually campaigned for many years on behalf of water bill payers.

[Mr Adrian Sanders (Torbay) (LD)]

I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing the debate. She is right to pay tribute to Linda Gilroy, but other former colleagues from Devon and Cornwall played their part, including the former Members for Truro, for Falmouth and Camborne and for Teignbridge. I may have forgotten others, but they all stood up for the south-west on this issue.

[Alison Seabeck]

The hon. Gentleman is right and the valuable contributions of those former Members will be missed.

Linda Gilroy was instrumental in organising the many meetings and briefings that we had with Ministers and others, and with the all-party group she produced a very thorough paper on the pressures felt by customers and water companies—and not just South West Water—which in turn fed into Anna Walker’s considerations in her review. In 1989, the privatised utilities were given responsibility not only for the provision of water and the disposal of waste but also for the maintenance of the coastline. The Minister will be well aware that in the south-west we are blessed with some of the most beautiful coastline in the country. Our beaches, bays and coves are famed, and rightly so, but they are an expensive luxury and one that is enjoyed not only by the people of the south-west, but by people from across the country and around the world. They are a common good and to the benefit of the whole public.

South West Water deserves credit for the work it has done to clean up the beaches. It has invested more than £1.5 billion through its clean sweep programme, which has modernised sewage treatment all around the peninsula, removing almost 250 crude outfalls and transforming the bathing waters of the region.

Those improvements are not paid for by the whole public. When the water utilities were privatised, the public in each area became responsible for paying for the maintenance of the coastline in their region. For the people of the west midlands, that was not a problem because they do not have a coastline, but in the south-west we have 30% of England’s coast, and the burden of cost is placed on just 3% of the population. The Prime Minister himself acknowledged the problem when he said, while holidaying in the region:

“I understand the unfairness that people feel in the South West that they are paying a lot of money so that there are clean beaches for people like me from Oxfordshire to come and play on.”

Indeed, the number of tourists to the region continues to grow, with the latest figures showing 21 million visits, the vast majority of which are by people coming from outside the south-west.

The water industry faces many challenges in the years ahead, and none of the solutions comes without a cost. It will have to deal with pollution concerns; better manage surface water and flooding; continue to try to provide an affordable supply of water; reduce greenhouse gas emissions; and adapt the service to make it more resilient to climate change.