Alex Sobel
Main Page: Alex Sobel (Labour (Co-op) - Leeds Central and Headingley)Department Debates - View all Alex Sobel's debates with the Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office
(1 day, 19 hours ago)
Commons ChamberI would like to start by thanking the Leader of the House for giving us this debate. He could have chosen any topic to fill the space this afternoon, but he chose this debate on Ukraine. It is a privilege to serve as chair of the all-party parliamentary group on Ukraine. I can see many members of the APPG here. The group is not full, so other Members can still join. We would like to have every Back-Bench Member of the House as a member of the APPG.
I want to start with a first-person narrative about what is happening in Ukraine now, as we approach the midway point of the Ukrainian winter, in the middle of January, and the reality of the lived experience of what midwinter in Kyiv really means and feels like. Russia continues to have the ability to strike on a daily basis and to take out Ukraine’s energy infrastructure. Its energy security is constantly under fire.
I spoke with Lesia Vasylenko—I know many people here know Lesia—who chairs the British group in the Rada, and who is in Kyiv. She told me:
“I have had no heating in my flat for four days and it’s minus 10”
—this was yesterday; it is now minus 13°—
“This is the situation in half of Kyiv. No electricity too, apart from a couple of hours in the night. Some buildings have no water. I’m writing this to you in total darkness and wearing four layers. Schools are not working. The sound of generators is less and less heard as they are breaking down en masse, given that they are not designed to work non-stop”
and in such low temperatures. She continues:
“Hospitals are also working at limited capacity. And every night Russia is deliberately hitting more and more power generating facilities and gas infrastructure. The task is to freeze Kyiv out. At one point mayor Klitschko even appealed to the people of Kyiv to leave the city. Putin’s invasion nearly four years ago has resulted in millions fleeing their homes, hundreds of thousands of casualties, and relentless attacks on hospitals, homes and schools. This includes Russian state sponsored abductions of Ukrainian children,”
which my hon. Friend the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire South (Johanna Baxter) spoke brilliantly about,
“and the arrest of my colleagues at the OSCE, Dmytro Shabanov, Maksym Petrov, and Vadym Golda,”
who I know my hon. Friend the Member for Washington and Gateshead South (Mrs Hodgson) is raising as an Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe rep on Ukraine. Lesia is the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly chair of the parliamentary support team for Ukraine. I am happy that we can support her and continue to support the work going on now. On our support for Ukraine’s energy infrastructure, Octopus signed a significant deal with DTEK, a large private energy company in Ukraine, for £100 million. We need to see much more like that.
I was pleased my hon. Friend the Minister spoke about that bunker under the school on the south bank of Kyiv that we went to together when we were in opposition. We need to think about those children now—not in that school, which has a generator, but in their homes freezing, and all those other millions of people in Kyiv now being frozen out. We need to do more not just to provide emergency energy generation, but that long-term, secure renewable energy. For us, renewable energy is a matter of the energy transition—we just had the statement right before this—but for them, it is national security. It is the difference between being able to heat their homes, keep the lights on and use their mobile phones, and not being able to do so. It is much easier for the Russians to take out a gas-fired power station or a nuclear power station than it is to take out a wind or solar farm. We need to ensure that we do everything we can on Ukraine’s energy infrastructure.
As chair of the APPG, I write many letters every week to enable Members of the Ukrainian Rada to visit us here. That is not just about Members of the Rada but right across the piece, because so many Ukrainians have family members here and other ties to the UK. It is still so difficult for Ukranians to get visas. I ask the Minister how we can further reduce bureaucracy for Ukrainians to come here and how we can liberalise those short-term travel visas, which are still difficult to get.
Sanctions are one of the few non-military tools capable of influencing Russian policy. They act as leverage that should not be given away without meaningful concessions. Without conditions, such as a withdrawal to the 1991 borders and binding agreements on reparations, a ceasefire could freeze the conflict in a way that perpetuates instability. Europe and the UK cannot repeat the mistake of 2014, when sanctions over Crimea and the Donbas were limited and political will dissipated. That leniency enabled Moscow to believe that further escalation would be tolerated and led to the full-scale invasion in 2022. Whatever happens—whatever negotiation or agreement —we need to keep Russian sanctions in place and continue to restrict its ability to operate, because my concern is that otherwise we will allow future conflicts to happen, because Russia’s territorial ambitions are not constrained just to Ukraine or to any agreement to freeze the conflict.
Phil Brickell
My hon. Friend is a tireless champion for the UK-Ukraine relationship, including through the 100-year partnership. Does he agree that it is worth commending the Government for the action that has been taken in the past month on issuing a licence through the Office of Financial Sanctions Implementation to move the £2.5 billion of Chelsea football club proceeds that have remained frozen for four years now? That money could be used to support the victims of conflict, including in Ukraine. Will he join me in calling on the Government to move faster on unlocking the more than £700,000 of assets that belong to Petr Aven, one of Putin’s closest oligarch friends? They have been frozen for quite some time now by the National Crime Agency and could also be used to support the Ukrainian people.
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. It has taken too long to see that Chelsea money. My hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead (David Taylor) talked about the aid convoys. Imagine what they could do to support Ukraine, the generators we could buy and the energy infrastructure we could build with the billions from the Chelsea sale.
David Taylor
I hope that if that money is unlocked, we look at ways to compensate for the money that is going into Ukraine by freeing up money that might be able to go to other conflicts around the world, where we have sadly made some reductions due to the cut to the aid budget.
My hon. Friend is inviting me to comment on our official development assistance cuts, on which we probably share the same opinion. There is a principle here about reparations, whether they are from the Russian state, from individuals who have benefited from this war or from the gangster kleptocracy that runs Russia. We need to do both those things. There is a wider discussion to be had about how we can support Ukraine and retrench some of the money for other areas, particularly Syria and, hopefully, Iran, that need ODA money from the UK now and in the near future.
As my time is nearly up, I will ask a couple of questions that the Minister can answer at the end of the debate. On the much-vexed question of our deployment of troops to Ukraine, it is very early. I want to counsel some Members that when they are talking about this, their language and approach is very reminiscent of the run-up to the second world war and Lord Halifax’s approach. There was an agreement in Munich, Chamberlain said that it would be a peace in our time, and then the war started—it came to us. Russia’s territorial ambitions are not limited; they are unlimited. We need to be cognisant of that. We need to be on the front foot, not on the back foot. I understand all the concerns about our ability to deploy troops. What planning are we doing at this stage? What is the process? What can we do to reassure MPs and the public that we are making the right planning steps towards that?
On what we can do now, the plans announced to develop new tactical ballistic missiles with Ukraine to strengthen its ability to defend itself against Russia are welcome. I am sure the Defence Minister will be able to answer this question: can the Government talk more about how and when we will do that and what the timelines are? Our own air defences are insufficient. We need to think about the future. If this war is protracted—if Putin does not settle and we do not get to a ceasefire—we ourselves could be threatened by drones, missiles and all the things we hear about every day in Ukraine. We need to be ready for our own defence, as well as the defence of Ukraine.
Order. There are still 12 Members who wish to speak. I was not going to propose a formal time limit. Perhaps, before I do, Members could restrict themselves to about five minutes and learn from each other’s examples?