Interest Rate Swap Derivatives

Andrew Bridgen Excerpts

Thursday 24th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Sir Gerald Howarth]

If my hon. Friend will forgive me, I will not, as other hon. Members wish to speak.

We have Mr Chris Sullivan, the chief executive of the corporate banking division—a very big wig in the Royal Bank of Scotland—saying that he is committed to the “fair and timely treatment” of the bank’s customers. I say, “Thank you very much,” to Mr Sullivan, because his letter was dated 3 August 2012 and yet my constituent has still seen no action. It is high time that the banks understood the gravity of the situation and the concern felt by the public. It is high time that they understood the risks they pose to businesses and the fact that they are damaging the United Kingdom by failing to address these concerns. They must do so forthwith, and the Government must give them every help so to do. I hope that eventually—indeed, soon—our constituents who have put their money on the line to try to generate wealth for our country and improve the economy will be given a better deal.

[George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this important debate, and I want to add my name to those of other colleagues in paying tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb) for his leadership and to the Bully-Banks campaign. I commend my hon. Friend the Member for Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier) for enlightening us all on how these mechanisms work, and I am grateful for the work of the all-party group, of which I am happy to be a member.

I want to speak about the context in which we need to view this issue, based on my own experience. I believe that this is the end of a banking boom-and-bust and bail-out, which speaks volumes about the role of banking in the economic crisis that we face. On the basis of my previous career in small businesses in East Anglia, it seems to me that the big bang, along with all the many good things, triggered a major cultural and financial neglect of the real bread and butter economy on the ground. Over the last 15 or 20 years, Norfolk has certainly seen a wave of bank closures, a “computer says no” culture, and a neglect and undermining of what was traditionally viewed as the backbone of our local economy, but what became in recent years, particularly under the last Government, rather unfashionable and, dare I say it, boring for the bankers of today.

Norfolk now sits on the cusp of a major economic renaissance—in life sciences, in engineering and in energy. I thank the Government for investing in the infrastructure but in that sector the banks have largely been irrelevant, in my experience, to such early-stage companies because they are too risky. Those companies usually rely on venture finance from angels, and corporate venturing from customers.

We thus need to ask ourselves some big questions about the banks’ role as our economy goes forward. Of course the banks play a crucial part. America has 20,000 banks and a new one is started nearly every week, and I believe that our banking sector and our financial services sector is one of our greatest and most innovative sectors. We sometimes talk about the City as if it comprised just four or five big banks; in fact, it is a fabulous crucible of financial innovation that should be celebrated and encouraged. The problem lies with the few big banks at the top that were bailed out by the last Government in such a way as to see them sitting on too many real businesses in the real economy that we need to grow and support.

I am going to speak about three of my constituents who have suffered as a result of the problem we are debating. Mr Andy Keats is a local entrepreneur who built up a number of companies—in this case, a successful 13-year-old company with 30 local employees, which is about to be sold for £3.5 million. When Mr Keats decided that he wanted to move his banking from RBS to Barclays, RBS stopped passing on the sales income from credit and debit card sales in the business. The business went insolvent within six weeks, and for the last four years, he has had to deal with RBS and NatWest and has had to face a series of major issues and challenges, to which I have been party. I have seen at first hand banks not responding and when they do, ignoring previous communications, and passing on debts to debt collection companies.

[Andrew Bridgen]

Does my hon. Friend agree that one explanation for the banks’ lack of enthusiasm to get on and pay out compensation is that if businesses that have gone bankrupt have no access to the redress scheme, there is no incentive for the banks to grasp this nettle, so the Government need to do something to force their hand?

[George Freeman]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point for which I am very grateful.

Mr Keats has also pointed out that the solicitors acting on behalf of the bank sometimes take court action without serving necessary notice.

I cannot name the second constituent because, like so many in these circumstances, he wishes to remain anonymous. He is a leading local business man and something of a pillar of the community. His business was pushed into accepting interest rate derivative products by unscrupulous bank salesmen. He has filed legal action against his bank so that the statute of limitations does not time out on his claim, which is a very real threat.

The third constituent is Paul Adcock, the managing director of Adcock’s of Watton, a great family business on the high street of a great Norfolk town. He was one of the first campaigners to make a complaint and a key leading light in the Bully-Banks campaign. I want to pass on my thanks, on behalf of my constituent, to my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy because the campaign has been a huge help to him. Adcock’s, a major local business and a pillar of the local establishment, racked up £175,000-worth of unscheduled charges. In September this year, Barclays finally settled. I want to put on record my constituent’s thanks for doing so.

This is not just a local issue. It is an enormous issue that runs across our economy. The numbers are eye-watering. The Bully-Banks campaign has estimated that this mis-selling scandal has cost small businesses more than 400,000 jobs in our economy, with £1.7 billion a year lost to the Treasury. It has led directly to the loss of 162,000 jobs, and to the inability of SMEs to create 251,000 jobs that they would have been able to create otherwise. More than 30,000 small businesses still face long delays, and fewer than 7% of claims being considered by Royal Bank of Scotland had reached the redress stage by the end of the month, while nearly five times as many—32%—had reached that stage at Barclays. Just 2% of those whose cases have been deemed eligible for review have accepted offers of redress. The banks have, I believe, set aside £3 billion for redress purposes, and less than £2 billion has been paid to just 32 businesses so far.

We need a speedy and fair process for redress and compensation. I urge the Minister to use all the mechanisms at his disposal to encourage the FCA to accelerate its handling of claims, to ensure that the banks are not allowed to kick them down the road, to separate direct and consequential losses, and to ensure that the settlements are fair. We must be careful not to define consequential losses in such a way as to undermine the potential for future SMEs to raise funds from the banks.

We are lucky enough to have a Minister with a glittering career in finance and small business behind him, and, I do not doubt, a glittering career in politics ahead of him. Our group could not have a more doughty and outspoken campaigner and supporter of our cause on the Front Bench. I urge him to bring to this issue the skill that he has brought to other issues with which he has dealt, and to ensure that it is viewed in the context of the wider banking crisis, whose resolution will enable our economy to recover properly.

[Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD)]

It is a great pleasure to speak for the first time with you in the Chair, Madam Deputy Speaker.

I, too, congratulate the hon. Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb), not only on securing the debate but on his fantastic leadership of the campaign and the comprehensive speech that he has made today. These debates show Parliament at its best, although it is a little worrying that the banking industry seems to move tortoise-like between them, and to take on the characteristics of the hare only during the few days before and after they take place. Perhaps we just need to have more of them.

As I spoke in our last debate on this subject, I shall not repeat everything that I said then, but I do want to say something about the question of advice. Small businesses typically have an accountant and a bank, and in the past have typically relied on both to be on their side. However, it is clear from the mis-selling scandal that they should have been given independent financial advice, because the banks were no longer on their side, and were now treating them as potential consumers of sophisticated products.

If the banks insist on not being on the side of small businesses and on treating them primarily as sales prospects, we should be thinking about the regulations. We should be thinking about what sort of advice the banks should be telling their clients to seek, about what disclosures of commission they should be making, and about other matters that would be the norm if the banks were selling to private individuals. After all, many of the businesses that we are discussing are not much bigger than the affairs of a private individual. I hope that the Minister will respond to that point.

Some of my constituents, like those of other Members, are following today’s debate closely. Theirs is a very familiar story. Stephen Lilley wanted a loan, and stated explicitly that he wanted to pay it down as quickly as possible. However, he found himself locked into a long-term fixed deal involving a fixed amount of money. Roy Myers turned up to sign the papers for a fairly large loan, only to find that clauses were being inserted at the point of signing. He had no time to consider what was happening.

A point that I do not think has emerged clearly today is that the businesses that are involved in such arrangements are effectively locked into their existing banks, and cannot get out. There has been some predatory behaviour on the part of banks in those circumstances. A business in my constituency which, partly because of the banking arrangements, was in heavy weather financially, found itself having to pay an extra £500 a month for a “special relationship manager” who did not actually do anything. That was merely a way of extracting yet more money from the business. In another case—we heard of a similar example earlier—a life insurance policy was forced on a constituent who did not need it. People have very little room for manoeuvre when they are locked into their existing banks.

I welcomed last year’s decision by the FCA, but progress has been painfully slow. I was present when Barclays turned up at the all-party parliamentary group, many months ago, and convinced us that it was organising a great big operation and that things would move very swiftly from that point onwards—which, of course, they did not. Meanwhile, the lives of more and more businesses and individuals are moving on, and things are happening to them. A couple of months ago, one of my constituents who is a member of a support group was speaking to a woman who was ill at the time, and who has subsequently died. That is another person to whom the banks are no longer having to talk.

A great many businesses have gone bankrupt. The hon. Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Andrew Jones) raised a point that had not occurred to me before. If it is true that the banks will not have to compensate those behind bankrupt businesses, they have a financial incentive to bankrupt businesses. I have been around long enough to know that whatever banks have a financial incentive to do, we can pretty much count on their doing.

[Andrew Bridgen]

Does my hon. Friend agree that not only is this situation awful for the SMEs that have been caught up in the mis-selling scandal, but it sends a strong negative message to anyone who is thinking of going into business in this country? Does it not send them the message that the banks cannot be trusted, and provide them with a big incentive not to go into business at all?

[Ian Swales]

Absolutely. Earlier, the hon. Member for South West Devon (Mr Streeter) referred to the reputation of the banks. I think that they will have an enormous job to do to recover their reputation, and to rebuild the trust that new business people should expect.

I hope that the Minister will say something about the question of what happens when businesses have gone bankrupt, or their proprietors are deceased. Do they simply drop off the banks’ lists? If that is the case, I think that we should be very concerned about what the banks are doing and what they are incentivised to do.

There has been good news this week about the separation of compensation from consequential loss. Both the constituents of mine who are following this debate particularly closely have received money in the last few weeks. Why, Members may ask, should they be at the front of the queue? The two of them have been prepared to go very public—they have even appeared on television—and, amazingly, the banks appear to have moved them to the front. Cynic I may be, but I would guess this was part of a process of dealing with the most vocal people first, and of course it should not be like that.

The question has been raised of whether criminal activity has taken place. I think that there is a whole spectrum ranging from relatively innocent bank employees, selling something that they have been told to sell, to clear misrepresentation, lies and so forth. I think that Bully-Banks is finding that the same names recur in some cases, and I think that when what is clearly criminal activity has taken place, those involved should be prosecuted.

We have all talked about the need for extra pace. I hope that the Minister will put maximum pressure on the banks and the FCA to speed up the process, and will show that the Government are on the side of small businesses and our constituents.