Ultra Low-Carbon Emission Vehicles

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Tuesday 10th May 2011 Westminster Hall

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to see you in the chair, Mrs Riordan. I congratulate the hon. Member for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous) on securing this debate, and concur with much of what he said. Clearly, he speaks with a lot of knowledge of the issue. It is a pleasure to speak on the subject; it makes a change from buses, trains and trams, which is the policy area on which I lead for the Opposition. My hon. Friend the Member for Barrow and Furness (John Woodcock), who leads on the issue, is serving on the armed forces parliamentary scheme today, so I suppose that I have drawn the short straw in speaking for the Opposition in this debate.

The hon. Member for South West Bedfordshire referred to the scheme in Israel, which, as a matter of interest, I had the opportunity to see. The ambition is impressive, but like him, I am not sure that it could be exactly transposed to the United Kingdom. However, it is certainly worth looking at, and the operation of the scheme is interesting. Knowing what works well and what does not may be of some benefit to the Department.

This debate is incredibly timely, coming as it does after two reports on the Government’s commitment to making change on the scale needed to tackle the threat of climate change and the role that a shift from dependence on oil to low-carbon alternatives in motor vehicles could play in meeting that challenge. Climate change is a threat that almost everyone now recognises we must treat seriously.

It was a surprise to read in the media that three Departments, including the Department for Transport, have raised objections to the new carbon budget proposed by the Committee on Climate Change. A leaked letter from the Business Secretary stated that accepting the carbon budget would endanger the competitiveness of British industry—that hardly says much for the Transport Secretary’s green credentials. As has been mentioned, rising fuel prices have led to a growing recognition of the need for change, not only among environmental campaigners or the political elite, but across the country. We know how the volatility of oil supplies impacts on the price at the petrol pump, causing misery for drivers and contributing to the costs facing families who are already feeling a squeeze on their incomes. The decision to increase VAT on petrol has added to the burden facing motorists, and the hon. Member for South West Bedfordshire mentioned those increasing costs in his contribution.

The goal of cheaper, greener motoring should unite everyone, as I believe it does. The public need the possibility of cheap, reliable transport, and the Government need efficient and clean transport networks that rely on secure energy supplies. Businesses must look to remain profitable and competitive at a time when the economy is under strain and environmental concerns are ever more pressing. Transport—primarily road transport—is a major contributor to greenhouse gas emissions, and the hon. Gentleman spoke about the need to use clean energy because as much as one fifth of all emissions come from road transport.

We can take two major steps to tackle the problem. First, we can make the alternatives to travelling by car more attractive. The significant investment in our rail network over the past decade led to a rise of over 43% in rail use during that period. The possibility of faster journey times on new high-speed lines, and the improvement of existing routes through electrification and more advanced trains, will continue to help achieve that shift from road to rail. The risk, however, is that such progress could be set back by the Government’s decision to hike up rail fares by 3% above the retail prices index of inflation for the next three years, meaning that fares will rise by over 30% on many vital commuter routes. In opposition, the then shadow Transport Secretary, the right hon. Member for Chipping Barnet (Mrs Villiers), warned that fare rises that were lower than those now proposed would

“price people off the railways”—[Official Report, 17 July 2007; Vol. 463, c. 149.]

I fear that her prediction will now become a reality, thanks to the decisions that she has taken since the election. Similarly, the decision to cut local government transport funds so much, so quickly, is having a devastating impact on bus services, inevitably reversing the progress that has been made in getting people out of their cars and on to public transport.

Secondly, we can do more to promote alternatives to travelling, and I welcome the Minister’s championing of initiatives ranging from the use of new technologies such as video conferencing to the promotion of working from home or remotely. Such initiatives, however, will amount to little unless there is proper financial support from the Government to back up the Minister’s enthusiasm. In reality, the car is for many the only realistic way to travel, particularly in rural areas. My constituency is in an urban area of Greater Manchester and is far from rural. Most of my constituents, however, do not travel by public transport; they travel by car, which for them is the only realistic mode of travel.

When in government, we recognised that a step change was needed if we were to move away from our dependence on oil and embrace and incentivise ultra low-carbon alternatives such as electric vehicles. Of the 20% of emissions that originate from our roads, 16% comes from cars. If it were more affordable to use electric vehicles, that would have a significant impact on emissions. Such initiatives must, of course, go hand in hand with a credible strategy to increase the amount of energy generated from renewable sources—a point made by the hon. Member for South West Bedfordshire—so that when there is increased use of electricity as a result of the roll-out of electric cars, that electricity is from green sources.

I am sure the Minister shares my concern about the report published in the past few days by Jonathon Porritt, the former chairman of the Sustainable Development Commission. His damning report marks the anniversary of the Prime Minister’s commitment to lead the UK’s “greenest Government ever”, and states that

“the likelihood of the Coalition Government living up to its “Greenest Government Ever” pledge is vanishingly remote.”

The report finds that more than three quarters of the Government’s commitments have shown little or no progress, and judges 29 of those commitments to be “moribund”, with a further 29 seeing “limited progress.” The decision to prevent the green investment bank from borrowing funds until at least 2015, and the watering down of feed-in tariff rates, are two examples of the Government’s backtracking on low-carbon initiatives. In his report, Mr Porritt states:

“The fact that David Cameron has no personal vision for the Green Economy provides all the permission that is required for piecemeal decisions across the rest of Whitehall working against any notion of becoming the Greenest Government Ever.”

The report concludes that it is

“depressing to see just how rapidly things have gone backwards since May 2010.”

Significant hurdles must be overcome to achieve the mass roll-out of electric vehicles that is needed to make a difference. We need the development of a recharging infrastructure that offers the assurance wanted by potential buyers—namely that they will be able to recharge their cars wherever they are in the country. That point was made eloquently by the hon. Member for South West Bedfordshire. We must also bring down the retail costs of electric cars. Although we can argue that they are cheaper to run and offer the potential for huge savings across the lifetime of the car, that is little use for someone who simply cannot afford the up-front cost. At the danger of breaking the consensus that has developed during the debate, the zeal with which the hon. Gentleman made his contribution put him in danger of sounding a bit like an over-enthusiastic car salesman—he certainly had me sold on a number of vehicles that he described. I am not sure whether that is a better job than being a Member of Parliament in the general hierarchy of things, but his knowledge has certainly benefited the debate.

We must work in partnership with industry to support the up-front research and development costs of new technologies—the hon. Gentleman and other hon. Members made a compelling case for investment in skills. It is a high-tech sector and important to the future of the manufacturing industry in this country, and it will undoubtedly play a major part in rebalancing the British economy. I represent a constituency that is still heavily dependent—perhaps disproportionately so—on manufacturing industry, and the desire to see investment in those new technologies transcends political divides.

I am proud of the steps that we took when in government to address some of the barriers to the mass take-up of electric vehicles. The £2.3 billion of assistance provided by the Labour Government to the automobile industry during the recession was tailored to help British industry become a world leader in the manufacture of low-carbon vehicles, and aimed to promote research and development of that technology. It also helped companies such as Jaguar Land Rover to access the European Investment Bank’s clean transport facility.

Labour made a commitment to make electric vehicles more easily available for consumers, and the then Transport Secretary, Lord Adonis, worked on trial electric vehicles. An investment of £250 million was made to make electric hybrid vehicles more affordable for consumers, and funding was provided for the largest trial of electric vehicles in the world. That scheme was launched in July 2009, and 340 vehicles took part. It is hugely disappointing that the Government do not recognise the importance of supporting British manufacturing at a time when investment is necessary to protect British jobs and ensure that we set the pace in the development of green technologies.

[Mr Marcus Jones]

The shadow Minister is making a case for the support given by the Labour Government to the automotive industry. I am quite shocked by his comments, because many of my constituents who work for Jaguar Land Rover were very concerned in 2009 at the lack of support that the Labour Government gave Jaguar Land Rover in its time of need. A long, long delay nearly saw many departments of Jaguar Land Rover close facilities in the UK. I am glad to say, and I hope that the hon. Gentleman will acknowledge this, that the regional growth fund has supported substantial investment in Jaguar Land Rover, which will create more than 6,000 jobs in the west midlands.

[Andrew Gwynne]

That is not quite how it happened. What the hon. Gentleman says about the regional growth fund is certainly welcome, if it is the case, for Jaguar Land Rover. However, I have to say that it is a pittance compared with the funding that was available through the regional development agencies. If that company is benefiting from the regional growth fund, that is good news for it, but I know of many companies that were to receive funding through the regional development agencies that are not so fortunate.

[Mr Jones]

The shadow Minister mentions the regional development agencies. In the west midlands, private sector employment fell while the regional development agency, Advantage West Midlands, was in operation, despite it having spent far more money than the regional growth fund, so I suggest to him that perhaps he should look for outputs rather than inputs, and at what we can achieve for our money.

[Andrew Gwynne]

I am glad that the hon. Gentleman acknowledges that the budgets of the regional development agencies were substantially greater than that of the regional growth fund, notwithstanding the points that he makes about employment growth. With regard to the funding that was made available previously, it is hugely disappointing that the present Government do not recognise the importance of supporting manufacturing. It is crucial to ensure that we are setting the pace in the development of green technologies.

I appreciate that the Minister has at least sought to take forward the work that Labour started when it was in office in developing an infrastructure for recharging. The Department for Transport claims that 9,000 electric vehicle charging points will have been built by 2013, yet research by the BBC published last week found that only 704 are currently available. It is estimated that 8,600 electric vehicles will have been sold by the end of this year, which will require 4,700 charging points to be completed before 2012.

It is a real worry that greater progress is not being made, and there are real doubts that the Government are treating the issue with the urgency needed to ensure that even their own claims will be achieved. There are also concerns about the progress being made in supporting the sale of new electric cars. The Minister has said in a parliamentary answer that just 534 cars were registered to receive the plug-in car grant in the first third of this year. The real concern, however, is that the funding for that initiative is being ended by the Government next March. As the Minister will know, Labour committed £230 million to the scheme, yet that has been reduced to just £43 million, turning the grants into a one-off scheme when what is needed is long-term, sustained support for this emerging industry.

I will therefore ask the Minister for some assurances. Can he reassure the industry and those for whom the cost of an electric car is simply out of reach that funding will be made available to continue the subsidy beyond the current financial year? Given that the comprehensive spending review was supposed to be a three-year settlement, why has he set this budget only for the current year? Are we providing enough support to the automobile industry to research and develop new low-carbon and ultra low-carbon vehicles? What more can be done to ensure that the UK is in a good position to become a market leader in this field?

Is the automobile industry putting sufficient investment into improving the efficiency of conventional petrol and diesel vehicles? Does the Minister believe that biofuels should play as prominent a role as they have been given in the past in making conventional vehicles greener? What progress are we making towards setting a new EU-wide target of 100 grams of carbon emissions per kilometre from new cars?

Finally, I would like to ask the Minister about the Government’s carbon plan. Can he update the House on the commitment to

“Consolidate existing support mechanisms for low and ultra-low emission vehicle research and development”,

which had a deadline of April 2011? Can he confirm that the commitment to developing a

“nationwide strategy to promote the installation of electric vehicle infrastructure, including a decision on whether to use an energy Regulated Asset Base and/or changes to planning/building regulations”

will be delivered on time—by the end of June 2011? What progress has been made on the commitment to review the

“strategy to support transition from early ultra-low emission vehicle market to mass market”,

which the Government have said is under way?

More environmentally friendly forms of transport, including electric cars, could play a larger role in the coming years in this country. I certainly look forward to what the Government will say about meeting that challenge.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to respond to the debate. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous) on the topic that he has chosen, on his enthusiasm for it and on the large number of entirely pertinent questions that he asked during his contribution. I will try to answer as many of those as possible, which means that my response might be slightly more bitty than would otherwise be the case.

It is worth pointing out to start with that the two objectives of the Department for Transport are to help to create growth and to cut carbon. Of course, developing and promoting electric vehicles fits in exactly with those two objectives, showing that helping the environment need not be—in fact, should not be—contrary to economic development and the generation of growth for this country. If we can move that agenda forward, it will certainly be in all our interests to do so. That is why we have taken action to position Britain as a global leader in the design, production and use of electric and ultra low-carbon emission cars. Cutting spending does not have to be incompatible with a low-carbon agenda. Some low-carbon choices already offer outstanding value for money, so our future goal is a market for green vehicles that makes economic as well as environmental sense.

We have heard about alternatives to car transport. Let me deal with that issue briefly. Of course, a rounded transport strategy has to take into account alternative forms of transport. That is why we have prioritised the local sustainable transport fund to develop alternatives for shorter journeys; two thirds of car journeys are of 5 miles or less. To answer the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne), that shows the commitment of the present Government to dealing with the environment, because not only is it a big way of dealing with carbon emissions in the short term, but £560 million for those areas is more over this four-year period than the last Government provided over the last four-year period, notwithstanding the difficult economic circumstances in which we find ourselves. That is a real commitment from the Treasury to this agenda.

[Mr Edward Leigh in the Chair]

The shadow Minister also mentioned rail. I was having some difficulty in following his logic, because he said on one hand that people were being priced off the railways, but on the other hand that a record number of people were using the railways. Those two statements do not seem to be entirely compatible. Also of course, the last Government changed the RPI arrangement so that every year, rail fares went up above inflation. To that extent, we are simply talking about a continuation of the policy inherited from the last Government.

[Andrew Gwynne]

When the Minister looks at the record of the debate, he will see that the quote about pricing people off the railways came from his right hon. Friend the Minister of State, Department for Transport, who is responsible for the railways.

[Norman Baker]

The point that I am trying to make is that, if increasing rail fares above inflation prices people off the railways, which I think was the argument developed by the hon. Gentleman, the policy has been singularly ineffective so far. The policy pursued by the last Government of pricing fares above inflation has led, according to his own figures, to record numbers of people on the railways.

[Andrew Gwynne]

I realise that the debate is not about railways, but perhaps the Minister will look at some of his right hon. Friend’s written parliamentary answers, which show that the Government’s own projections make it clear that price increases of 3% above RPI over the next three years will see the growth in rail passenger usage fall.

[Norman Baker]

As the hon. Gentleman says, the debate is not about railways, so we should not spend too much time on this, but the Department for Transport’s projections show increasing numbers of passengers on the railways. Only this week, record numbers of rail passengers were announced, not least because of the price of fuel, which my hon. Friend the Member for South West Bedfordshire mentioned.

I am glad that the Opposition spokesman mentioned high-speed lines in a positive sense, and I look forward to the Opposition confirming that they have retained the last Administration’s position of supporting high-speed rail. It is important that there is cross-party agreement on the issue, and I am disappointed that the hon. Gentleman’s boss has so far been unable to say definitively that high-speed rail would continue if there were a Labour Government.

Let me turn in more detail, however, to the subject before us: electric and low-carbon vehicles. Notwithstanding the comments about railways and low-carbon transport locally, the fact remains that most journeys are undertaken by car, and that will remain the case for the foreseeable future. The reason is that cars are a convenient means of getting from A to B and are the only practical alternative for a great many journeys. Yes, people can take a different means of transport if they are in a city centre, and they can use the railways if they are going from one city centre to another, but the car is the only alternative for most journeys. We must therefore ensure that it is in a good place to contribute sensibly to our environmental and economic objectives. As I said in opposition, and I am happy to say again in government, the enemy is the carbon, not the car, and that is what we should focus on in our attempts to move forward on transport policy.

In the short term, the majority of CO₂ savings from road transport will come from improvements to conventional technologies, and that is broadly acknowledged across the House and across industry. I have been impressed by car manufacturers’ ability to tweak—that is perhaps an understatement—or adjust their technology in a productive way to deliver reduced carbon emissions from conventional engines, and one of the models mentioned competes favourably with a hybrid engine. EU regulations on fuel efficiency have helped to drive that process. Similarly, the manufacturing industry’s competitive will has helped to respond to the general environmental challenge that we all face. We will continue to work with manufacturers and our EU partners to squeeze more fuel efficiency out of petrol and diesel cars and vans because that will provide the biggest short-term gain. However, we are also preparing for the more revolutionary change that is the subject of the debate.

Of course, the take-up of ultra low-carbon cars may be slow at first, and nobody should be surprised by that. Whenever a new technology is introduced, there is always a slow take-up and then a rising line on the graph as people get used to the technology and gain confidence in it. The price then starts declining because the market is developed, and part of the Government’s strategy is to help to ensure that the market is kick-started and developed. There should be no concern about the number of electric vehicles that have been sold to date, because the trajectory is the one we would anticipate and is entirely consistent with our significant ambition for four years ahead, to which I will return shortly.

We are putting in place the incentives we need to establish a market for these pioneering technologies, which will be supported by measures such as enhanced capital allowances, low benefit-in-kind taxation and variable vehicle excise duty. I am happy to say that we are joined in our effort by a number of private and public sector organisations. To respond to one of the points that has been made, the Royal Mail is undertaking trials with electric vans. Sky is seeing what the plug-in Toyota Prius is like to live with. In my Department, the Government Car and Despatch Agency is testing five plug-in Toyotas and a Smith electric van, so we are doing what we can.

To support the development of the market for low-carbon vehicles further, we need to ensure that the right infrastructure, specialist supplier base and customer incentives are in place, and that is exactly what we are doing. We have confirmed our support for a range of research and development programmes across the green vehicle sector. Through the Technology Strategy Board’s low-carbon vehicles innovation platform, we are working with key partners to deliver a strategic vision for automotive R and D. Last year, we announced that a further £24 million was being awarded to six winning consortia from the latest competition, which makes a total of £52 million with contributions from business.

All of that will make a significant contribution to greener vehicle development in this country, to pick up the point rightly made by my hon. Friend the Member for Nuneaton (Mr Jones). That development includes hybrid technologies, composite materials and engines that recover waste heat energy. The vehicles that will benefit include plug-in hybrids from Nissan, Lotus and Jaguar Land Rover, extended-range electric cars and a lightweight hybrid refuse collection vehicle. Through the plug-in car grant, we are helping to lower the up-front costs of such vehicles. There are nine eligible cars, which are, and will be, on our roads, with more than 500 orders already placed under the scheme, as has been mentioned.

Our objective has always been real grants for real cars: cars that are safe and reliable, that meet the needs of real motorists and that provide a motoring experience that is as good as, if not better than, that provided by the conventionally powered vehicles people currently drive. It is important that the new generation of cars have that consumer confidence and that their performance is similar to, or better than, that of existing vehicles. If we are to have uptake, we absolutely must have that. Fifteen or 20 years ago, I did some work on green washing powders, which, quite frankly, were not as effective as normal washing powders, so the uptake was limited. If green technology is to take off, we must get its performance up to the level of that of existing technology.

The scheme was launched in January, with buyers receiving a grant of 25% of the price of a green car, up to £5,000. That, of course, also applies to business buyers. The scheme has been well received by the public and by business. We have shown our strong commitment to supporting the market by confirming support for the grant for the lifetime of this Parliament. To pick up the point raised by the shadow Minister, it is right that the sum involved is £43 million until March 2012. The spending review has confirmed the provision of about £300 million to support consumer incentives for the life of this Parliament. The hon. Gentleman can have confidence that this is not a stop-start arrangement, but something we will see through to make sure that there is confidence in the market.

Through these initiatives, we want to encourage motorists to embrace cleaner and greener vehicles. By encouraging demand, we will stimulate investment in mass production which will, in turn, bring down costs and further boost demand. That is what we have seen with all new technologies, whatever the field, and things will be no different with electric vehicles.

Let me turn now to some of the points raised by my hon. Friend the Member for South West Bedfordshire. He mentioned the carbon reduction from an electric car powered by the existing grid, and he is right to draw attention to the need to change the grid mixture. Indeed, when we came into the Chamber at the end of the previous debate, my next-door neighbour, the Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change, my hon. Friend the Member for Wealden (Charles Hendry), was responding to a debate on that very matter. The Government are well seized of the need to develop a cleaner, greener grid, which will undoubtedly increase further the advantages of electric cars. Even if the existing grid is used with a new electric car, however, there can be up to 40% carbon savings. There are also further benefits in terms of reducing air pollution from tailpipes and so on. We should change the grid, but even if we do not, there are still many good reasons to pursue electric vehicles, which is what we are doing.

My hon. Friend the Member for Nuneaton referred to the regional growth fund, and I can assure him that the Department for Transport is drawing the attention of other Departments, including the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, to the advantages of transport investment, including in this field. He will know of the Transport Secretary’s enthusiasm for these issues, and he can rest assured that my right hon. Friend will not lose an opportunity to advance them in discussions with fellow Cabinet Ministers.

My hon. Friend the Member for South West Bedfordshire asked about the 2020 target, as it were, for electric vehicles. There is no doubt that we want a big uptake of these vehicles. The figure achieved will be determined by external factors to some extent, for example the price of oil. If the price rises dramatically, it will, I suggest, hasten the development and uptake of electric vehicles, but if the price declines, it will make it less attractive to move forward on that trajectory. Therefore, some outside factors mean that it might not be sensible to set a target. We should say, as we have said, that we must decarbonise road transport if we are to make serious inroads in our carbon emissions in the transport sector.

We should and we have done stuff on rail and encouraged cycling and walking in urban centres, but ultimately the big gain will come from decarbonising road transport. We must put in place high-level objectives for carbon reduction and economic growth and the mechanisms to deliver the outcome we want, which, in this case, is a big uptake in electric vehicles. We must then monitor the uptake without necessarily setting arbitrary targets for how many vehicles there should be by 2020. Having said that, “The fourth carbon budget” report has made some recommendations and we appreciate the efforts made in that regard. We have not formally responded to them, but we will publish our views in October, and we might be able to give more detail on the number of electric vehicles we could achieve when we publish that.

My hon. Friend the Member for South West Bedfordshire referred to the incentives for purchasing electric vehicles, and I am grateful that he welcomes the £5,000 grant. The economics are not quite as negative as he might feel. On current petrol prices, an electric car such as a Nissan Leaf could save the average motorist up to £1,000 a year in running costs, so, taking account of the plug-in car grant and the vehicle excise duty benefits, even now someone could get a payback in seven years. I accept that that could be better and we want to make it better, but there is a sensible payback period for people to consider when they invest in such vehicles.

Railway Expansion

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Wednesday 27th April 2011 Westminster Hall

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to speak under your chairmanship, Mr Robertson. I, too, congratulate the hon. Member for Southport (John Pugh) on securing the debate, which has been excellent. Clearly, it raises important matters about smaller rail schemes and how, in many instances, they could benefit local areas by increasing economic prosperity and improving access to the rail network for local communities. I agree with the hon. Gentleman that smaller rail schemes clearly should be considered as we consider how best to deal with expansion on our railway network.

We need to consider all ways of making our railways work in the most economically efficient way. Given that, as my hon. Friend the Member for Blackley and Broughton (Graham Stringer) rightly said, there will be serious capacity issues all over the rail network in the years to come, we need to think about the best ways of expanding the railways for the best value for money, which clearly involves looking at the types of scheme that have been discussed today.

With more and more people wanting to travel by rail, continued investment in increasing rail capacity and expanding the network are vital. With passenger growth expected to increase by up to 50% by 2020, and rail freight expected to grow by 30% during the next decade, substantial changes to the rail network will be needed.

Clearly there has been a great deal of debate in the House and media coverage about larger rail expansion projects such as Crossrail and Thameslink, the electrification schemes in Wales and the north-west, and the ongoing discussions about high-speed rail. Those projects will clearly attract the lion’s share of transport funding in the future. However, growing demand on the rail network can sometimes be satisfied, as we have heard today, by smaller enhancements, such as lengthening platforms to allow for longer trains or doubling single tracks. The former approach has been taken on some London commuter routes, and the latter is appropriate in rural areas that have become bottlenecks.

Of course, local rail expansion has been made more difficult—particularly given the expectation that these schemes and their business cases will be primarily led by local authorities, integrated transport authorities where they exist, local enterprise partnerships where they exist, and so on—following the comprehensive spending review, which left a 28% cut in local government transport spending. That has implications for the immediate future. Sometimes smaller rail projects will not be the best solution all over the rail network. As we see on an increasing number of routes, peak trains are already at maximum length and no further trains can realistically be added.

I welcome the campaigning work of the hon. Member for Southport and particularly the work that he has done to make the case for the Burscough curve, which will help to revive the disused electric track between Ormskirk and Burscough, thus bringing links to Southport. He must have found it a bit disheartening that the present Government in effect slapped a four-year ban on funding such projects, as he discussed in his speech. However, he is to be congratulated on showing the determination to find alternative sources of funding for the scheme, which will certainly benefit his constituents. I wish him well with that.

As many of us in the room are north-west MPs—the exceptions are the hon. Member for Chippenham (Duncan Hames), the Minister and her parliamentary private secretary, the hon. Member for Elmet and Rothwell (Alec Shelbrooke)—I agree with the hon. Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood (Eric Ollerenshaw) that people could mistakenly think that this is a north-west conspiracy. However, he knows that there is a great deal of rail congestion in the whole of our region, and many commentators have said that smaller schemes, many of which make up elements of what is called the northern hub, are key components in improving rail services across the north of England.

One ambition of the northern hub project is to increase train services in the north by 40% during the next 20 years, including for cities such as Newcastle, Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds and Sheffield. That would mean 700 more trains a day, which would make it possible for 3.5 million more passengers to travel by train each year. The estimated wider economic impact of the project is significant as it involves the creation of 23,000 jobs and a return of £4 for every £1 that is spent.

Although I welcome the recent announcement on the Ordsall curve, it has been frustrating for those of us who believe in the northern hub project that the Government have not yet made a firm commitment about when work on that worthwhile and economically beneficial project will begin. That would be a good starting point. I hope that any approval will not be piecemeal, however, because we need to take the northern hub project as a whole. I welcome the fact that the Ordsall curve will link Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Victoria stations by the end of 2016, but that is only one aspect of the northern hub scheme. There is no Government commitment to the entire programme, so I ask the Minister to give a firm commitment that the project will be included in the next Network Rail control period.

Labour clearly remains committed to dealing with overcrowding and capacity problems on the network, and to considering how best to use further rail expansion to do so in the most cost-effective way. However, rail expansion and investment decisions can have a real impact on regional growth, and may help to perpetuate a cycle of increasing disparity of wealth between regions. Such decisions will be all the more important in the light of the abolition of the regional development agencies.

Smaller rail schemes obviously have beneficial effects in all areas of the country. In a previous debate, I played a parliamentary version of rail Top Trumps with the hon. Member for Chippenham over who had the worst rail service in the country—I think that I won with my example of one train a week in one direction only. However, the hon. Gentleman made a powerful case for extra investment in his constituency. I was disappointed that the Government sneaked out their decision to end all funding for local rail schemes developed by local authorities and integrated transport authorities on the same day that they announced the public consultation on High Speed 2.

[Mrs Villiers]

Does the hon. Gentleman know of any local authorities or local promoters that complained about that announcement? The fact is that none of those schemes is ready to kick off before April 2012, so they will still be subject to the same three-year consideration for national funding as under the system that we inherited from the Labour Government.

[Andrew Gwynne]

If that was the case, putting a block on the schemes was a pointless exercise.

The Government’s decision means that no central funding will be available for new schemes until April 2015, which will obviously affect schemes such as that in the constituency of the hon. Member for Southport. Why was that decision not included in the announcement about the comprehensive spending review? Such an important decision should have been announced on its own, rather than being overshadowed by an announcement on the same day about the public consultation on high-speed rail. That is a blow to further passenger choice and to economic regeneration.

The Eddington review outlined the significant returns that can result from smaller projects that unblock pinch points, saying that variable infrastructure schemes to support public transport in urban areas are likely to offer the highest returns. A recent report by the Transport Committee clearly identified the way in which the south, and particularly London, has benefited from rail investment, which was a point made eloquently by my hon. Friend the Member for Blackley and Broughton and others. The report also noted that transport investment per head in London and the south-east was three times as much as in other regions of the country. I do not wish to be misrepresented, so I point out that Labour certainly supports investment in London and the south-east, but similar interest should be shown in the needs of the rest of the country, and my hon. Friend made a valid and powerful point in that respect. Some smaller rail projects might be a way to redress the balance, but we will have to wait to see what is included in the next Network Rail control period.

I wonder whether there is a greater role for tram-train, which was mentioned by the hon. Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood. Such services could vastly improve local passenger services—and the passenger experience—by utilising existing infrastructure. It will be interesting to see the success or otherwise of the south Yorkshire trial and to note whether that can be adopted elsewhere.

Hon. Members will know that Labour is undertaking a fundamental review of all its policies, exactly as the Conservatives did when the Prime Minister became leader of his party. We are looking at all areas of policy, and I must tell my hon. Friend the Member for Blackley and Broughton that that includes the question of High Speed 2. I urge him to take part in that because his serious points about capacity on the west coast main line and regional economic disparities should be fed into the process. Whatever the outcome of the policy review, the party will remain committed to assisting the Government to secure the legal powers for High Speed 2 in the hybrid Bill. Like my hon. Friend, I urge the Government to do so for the whole of the Y-shape network, not only the route from London to Birmingham.

Local rail schemes can make an important contribution to solving transport challenges. Many of the points raised today will help to inform the debate. However, as we heard from a number of hon. Members, many local rail projects may be suspended until funding is identified. What the hon. Member for Southport said about building a viable business case was extremely valid, and it is difficult to pursue the process through a vast array of bureaucracy. How will the Government cut through that maze of bureaucracy to bring forward schemes promoted by local partnerships, as described by the hon. Gentleman?

Will the McNulty review make suggestions, and if so what is the Government’s view? What further advice does the Minister have for local authorities to get funding for their projects? Will she make a statement about smaller rail schemes such as the Todmorden curve? What work has the Department done to examine the benefits of reopening other disused rail lines? What will happen to the schemes that were in line for funding before the Government’s announcement earlier this year? The Southport scheme and others represent a small proportion of the schemes on our rail network, and we hope that those and many others will be given due consideration by the Government for the next control period.

High-Speed Rail

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Thursday 31st March 2011 Westminster Hall

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

I am pleased to contribute to this very important debate about the High Speed 2 programme. I suspect that I may be interrupted by a Division in the House. I congratulate Conservative Members and my hon. Friend the Member for Coventry North West (Mr Robinson) on applying to the Backbench Business Committee to allocate time for the debate. We have been provided with the opportunity to listen to the views, opinions and concerns of right hon. and hon. Members from across the House.

As mentioned, Labour in government set out a vision for a high-speed rail line running from London to Birmingham and on to Leeds, Manchester and eventually Scotland. I welcome the public consultation on High Speed 2 launched by the Government in February. They boasted that it would be one of the biggest and most wide-ranging consultations every undertaken by a Government. We need to have a full discussion about high-speed rail, especially for the communities that will be directly affected by the construction of the line.

--- Later in debate ---

On resuming—

[Andrew Gwynne]

Before I was interrupted, I was about to say that it is clear that a project of this size and scale will not be without controversy, which I shall come on to later. However, I certainly recognise the importance of increasing capacity and connectivity in rail, particularly in respect of the west coast main line and the Chiltern line. The previous Labour Government rightly assessed that improved transport capacity would be needed from the 2020s between our major cities, starting with the route from London to the west midlands, two of Britain’s largest conurbations. The projections show that by then, the west coast main line will be at capacity. It is projected that, by 2033, the average long-distance west coast main line train will be 80% full, with routine severe overcrowding for much of the time.

Perhaps there will be benefits from some of the suggestions put forward by my hon. Friend the Member for Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins), the hon. Member for South Northamptonshire (Andrea Leadsom) and my hon. Friend the Member for Coventry North West and others, but I also understand the argument that the development of the 335-mile Y-shaped network would bring our major cities closer together and, as such, create the potential to boost investment and economic growth in the north. I would like to ask the Government how much extra capacity they anticipate high-speed rail will bring, and what estimates they have made of the modal shift from air travel that would result from the extension.

Labour remains committed to investing in a world-class rail system, and high-speed rail could have an important role to play in delivering it. That is why we began this process in government. As Members will know, Labour has just embarked on a fundamental review of all its policies, which is exactly what the Conservatives did after the Prime Minister became leader of that party. We will look at all areas of policy, and fundamental questions will be asked about how we can make transport more affordable and help to reduce inequality and increase social mobility.

[Mr Leech]

In the past, the hon. Gentleman has been supportive of the concept of high-speed rail to Manchester and beyond. Does he agree with the assessment of the new chief executive of Network Rail about capacity on the west coast main line?

[Andrew Gwynne]

Absolutely. As I have said, capacity on the west coast main line is of fundamental importance, and the issue must be resolved. We have to look at future capacity on rail lines and how we will deal with such issues. Clearly, everything will be on the table as part of our policy review, and we encourage as many members of the public as possible to get involved in our ongoing discussions, including those on both High Speed 2 and Rail Package 2; we need to study alternatives for viability as well. It would be unwise for any future support for high-speed rail not to be at the heart of that policy review when it involves a £30-billion commitment for future Parliaments. Perhaps the hon. Member for Weaver Vale (Graham Evans) will be interested in that. In the meantime, the Government will have our support as they move forward with the next stage of planning the route.

Clearly, there is concern about the hybrid Bill that the Government propose. The Opposition have real doubts about their commitment to taking the planned high-speed rail line beyond Birmingham, as Labour had planned. They have decided not to use the forthcoming legislation to do that. As I have said in previous debates, we will support the Government if they want to put powers in the Bill to extend the line to Leeds and Manchester.

I wish to turn briefly to interoperability. If we are to proceed with high-speed rail, we need to look now at ways to integrate it with the traditional rail network. We also need to look at how we can maximise the benefits for rail all over the country, including London-based projects such as Crossrail and Thameslink. How will we plan for the wider impacts of high-speed rail, to ensure that the benefits are shared in other parts of the network? For instance, can the Minister tell us how many more fast trains to London there will be from places such as Coventry, Liverpool and Sheffield as a result of released capacity from the HS2 line? In short, what will be the benefit to areas not directly connected by high-speed rail?

[Kelvin Hopkins]

The fundamental problem we have on many of our rail routes is old-fashioned signalling; it is 50 years out of date, or even longer. If we can get modern signalling with some of the money that could be saved, we could get many more train paths and much faster frequencies. That is the way to increase capacity on existing routes.

[Andrew Gwynne]

I share my hon. Friend’s assessment of that issue. I know he made that case at a recent reception with ASLEF in the House of Commons.

I recognise that a lot of right hon. and hon. Members in all parties have concerns about high-speed rail. Those living near the proposed route have understandable concerns. I understand those hon. Members whose constituencies will be directly affected by the construction. Like my right hon. Friend the Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson), I do not know how sensible it is for the Secretary of State for Transport to refer to anyone who is against the scheme as a nimby, as he recently did in a newspaper article.

I also note that in The Daily Telegraph yesterday there was a letter signed by no fewer than eight northern Conservative MPs, saying:

“We urge the Government not to be blown off course by the protests of a minority in the home counties.”

It seems unfair to intrude on the private grief of the Conservatives, not least because there are differences in our party, too. However, the previous Labour Government were always mindful that, in proposals for a route, there has to be an attempt to minimise local impacts while achieving the wider objectives. We need to ensure that people are fully consulted about changes that will affect their area. I welcome the fact that the consultation is now under way, and will conclude in July this year. It gives those who will be directly affected by the construction route a chance to put forward their concerns and have them looked at, and I hope that their views will be taken seriously by the Government.

However, there are a number of questions that I would like to ask. What impact will the changes to the route, the additional compensation and hardship payments, and other commitments have for the £750 million allocated in this spending period? Can the Minister offer an assurance that there will not be a knock-on effect on other rail schemes already facing cuts and delays? In opposition, the Minister said:

“failing to take HSR through Heathrow would be a big mistake”.

It is reassuring that she has, I think, now confirmed a direct link in the second phase. Perhaps she can give a bit more information about that.

My hon. Friend the Member for Dunfermline and West Fife (Thomas Docherty) touched on an important point. Will the Minister confirm whether the cost of the trains to run on the high-speed line has been included in the figures used for the costs of the scheme? Or, as with other schemes such as Crossrail, are they separate expenditure, yet to be identified?

One topic almost missing from the debate, although it was rightly touched on by my hon. Friend the Member for Hammersmith (Mr Slaughter), has been the likely cost of using the service. Surely if all taxpayers are to contribute so significantly to the cost of constructing the route, it cannot be a service with ticket prices outside the grasp of most people. What work has the Department done to look at anticipated ticket-pricing plans for high-speed rail? How much of the revenue raised by high-speed rail will be used on the high-speed rail line, and how much will be will be spent on conventional rail improvements?

To conclude, as I have said before, our policy review will be completely open-minded about all the transport priorities the country faces, and high-speed rail will clearly form an important part of our future discussion. In the meantime, we urge the Government to reconsider expanding the scope of the hybrid Bill to include powers to continue to Leeds and Manchester, so that preparations are in place to bring the potential benefits of high-speed rail to the whole country.

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Thursday 10th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Norman Baker]

My officials discovered last year that some bus services receiving bus service operators grant were not eligible under the regulations because they were free services. As a result, the grant had to stop being paid. My officials wrote to operators in November to tell them that, and I have subsequently received representations on the matter. I believe that there is a case for continuing to pay BSOG for at least some of those services, so I will explore whether we can change the powers in respect of free bus services. We will continue to allow the submission of bus subsidy claims for free services, pending a resolution of this matter. My officials have told Stagecoach and Cambridgeshire county council about this decision. I therefore hope that between them, they can reach an agreement to continue to run that important shuttle bus.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

Does the Minister not understand that although the cuts to bus fuel subsidy may not come in until next year, cuts to bus services are happening now, thanks to the massive front-loaded 28% cut in local transport funding? In the election campaign, the Prime Minister was very clear that he would not axe the national concessionary travel scheme—but does the Minister understand that for pensioners up and down the country, there is no point in having a free bus pass if there is no bus?

Rail Investment

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Thursday 17th February 2011 Westminster Hall

[Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD)]

I want to express to the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman) my appreciation for the work of her Committee in producing its report, and providing us with the opportunity to debate an issue that is vital not only for our railways but our economy and environment. The report identifies nine priorities for rail investment in control period 5, from 2014 to 2019. I want to address three in particular: rolling stock, to deal with capacity constraints, electrification and operational strategy, such as new signalling technology. I do not expect the Minister to make my constituents a national priority, but I make no apology for pursuing their interests, which enables me to show the wider merit of the proposals in question for the rest of the country.

Any debate about major infrastructural investment decisions needs to take a long-term strategic view, and should include all parts of the supply chain for the industry. It is a matter of concern that no such long-term strategy exists in the rail industry. We do not want to risk directing public funds to the wrong projects, or to poorly timed projects, in an unco-ordinated way, as it is costly and inefficient to stop and start again. Nor is it a good idea to subject major transport investment schemes to the vagaries of political, or even economic, cycles. A new planning framework, extending beyond the current five-year planning process of the Government and the Office of Rail Regulation, setting out a clear vision for investment, covering a period of as much as 25 years, would go a long way to combating that short-termism. Longer franchises are also a necessary component of longer-term planning. Suppliers would be able to invest with more confidence, particularly in the arena of technological innovation. The lack of a long-term strategy currently makes it difficult to research and develop the technologies that ultimately save travellers’ time and taxpayers’ money.

The Committee identified the Manchester hub as a top priority for control period 5. I would not want to detract from its observations, but a similar logic applies to Bristol and its travel-to-work area. Bristol is the biggest city outside London in the south of England and the eighth largest in the United Kingdom. From a commuter perspective, on Brunel’s railway, Bristol looks like an attractive proposition, which it is as long as people do not mind how full or late their train to work might be. Network Rail’s Great Western route utilisation strategy, which was published a month after the Transport Committee’s report, identifies Bristol’s rail capacity at peak times—and, indeed, the performance there—as key gaps that will be in need of attention and investment in control period 5. Bristol Temple Meads, in particular, is a pinch point on the network, and passenger numbers are projected to grow by 37% by 2019. That will result in passenger delays, which are already among the worst on the network, increasing by more than a third.

The route utilisation strategy isolates several key regional services that are suffering severe overcrowding and on which investment in extra carriages will reap significant benefits for capacity and connectivity. For example, five extra vehicles on the Cardiff to Portsmouth line, which passes through Bradford-on-Avon in my constituency, would make it possible to provide two extra services in every morning peak, and three each evening. Just one or two carriages from the humble 153 class, allocated to the trans-Wilts line, would also reduce the number of passengers in congested Bath, who only want to get across Wiltshire.

Further electrification of the national rail network is to be welcomed. Electric trains are cheaper, faster, greener and more reliable than their diesel counterparts. They transport a greater number of passengers, and since they are lighter and cause less infrastructural wear and tear their operating cost is roughly half that of their diesel equivalents. The Great Western main line, which clearly is not anticipating the benefits of High Speed 2, has one of the strongest cases for electrification. I welcome the Transport Secretary’s announcement before Christmas that the line from Paddington would be electrified as far as Didcot, Oxford and Newbury. I understand the need to make decisions about powering future inter-city services, which have delayed decisions about the rest of the line. However, I ask the Government to bring forward their proposals for further electrification of the line, to give the rail industry, businesses and passengers alike the certainty that they need to plan for the future.

I have two more points to make on the matter. First, I ask the Minister that electrification should not just be on the line to Bristol Parkway, but also the line through Chippenham and Bath to Bristol Temple Meads. Secondly, I suggest that it would be of benefit to extend the planned electrification of the line to Newbury as far as Westbury. Westbury is not only a more logical network staging post on the line from Reading but a useful interchange for many journeys, and it was identified by Network Rail as needing investment during the next funding period.

On operational strategy, one investment priority that provides opportunities but has not received as much attention as others is new signalling technologies. That is unfortunate, as smart signalling technologies could secure serious improvements in efficiency, environmental performance and capacity within any given infrastructure. Invensys Rail, headquartered in Chippenham in my constituency, is an internationally renowned company at the forefront of developing control and communications technology. On the potential environmental wins of smart signalling, the European rail traffic management system, which Invensys is helping to implement, could enable a 46% reduction in carbon emissions from rail transport by 2030. The system creates wireless connections between trains and control centres, which would be a step change from current infrastructure on our railways. The links can be used to measure energy use and send instructions to trains to reduce their consumption whenever possible. However, the technology would have to be embedded in both rolling stock and track-side infrastructure, which would require joined-up organisation and long-term investment.

To take advantage of such technology, we must develop a more strategic view of the rail supply chain. It is a good time to begin that process. The McNulty value-for-money study is nearly complete, and the Transport Secretary is establishing a high-level group to examine the railways’ future further.

Firms such as Invensys have an important role to play in advising policy makers on the potential of new technology. They are not just a shop window from which we pluck impressive bits of kit. Their technology has been developed in response to the needs of rail systems around the world. As a result, they have accumulated expertise that can make a valuable contribution to discussion of the future of the UK network. I was pleased that the Minister accepted my recent invitation to visit Chippenham in order to see for herself the innovations spearheaded by Invensys. I look forward to welcoming her to Wiltshire in due course.

Among the investment priorities identified by the Transport Committee’s report are several examples of low-hanging fruit—good value, small-scale projects that would not involve the major infrastructure developments of high-speed rail or the complexity of fixing regional bottlenecks. In that respect, the report echoed Eddington’s finding that smaller-scale transport interventions are often the most cost-effective solutions and acknowledged that many small but growing communities around the country could reap substantial benefits from better access to the rail network. I wholeheartedly agree, as my constituency has two good examples, the towns of Melksham and Corsham.

I have made several appeals in Parliament on behalf of the campaign for an improved service on the trans-Wilts line, which runs from Swindon to Salisbury via Chippenham, Melksham and Trowbridge. Members can find out more about it on the website transwilts.org.uk, organised by the community rail partnership. Melksham is the fourth largest town in Wiltshire by population, yet its rail service is derisory, consisting of just two trains a day at times that are, frankly, useless for residents hoping to commute by train.

The trans-Wilts line was well used until the current Great Western franchise began in 2006, when the previous Government dropped the requirement to provide a decent service on the route. As I pointed out to the Secretary of State in November when he announced 650 carriages for the network, just one extra carriage allocated to the line could provide more services at economically meaningful times of the day, connecting the county’s population centres and alleviating pressure on commuter lines in the Bristol area. Demand for the service is strong, and it is supported by the local business community, Wiltshire council and other local Members of Parliament, co-ordinated by an excellent campaign group, the Trans-Wilts Community Rail Partnership. In recent weeks, 1,500 people and 150 businesses have completed a survey on the website about how they would use a better service on the line.

In my correspondence with the Minister, I have received some encouraging signs from the Department about the trans-Wilts campaign. Once more, I ask her to examine closely what benefits could accrue from such locally driven initiatives. Colleagues will forgive me, I am sure, for going to such lengths to make the case for my constituents. They might want to consider what I will call the Melksham challenge. Can they identify a settlement larger than Melksham—it has more than 20,000 people—with an open station that has a passenger rail service as poor as our two services a day each way? I believe that it is an exceptional case.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

I am sorry to disappoint the hon. Gentleman, but the town of Denton, which I have the privilege to represent, has a population of 32,000, an open station and one train a week, in one direction only.

[Duncan Hames]

I stand corrected. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will appreciate the opportunity that I have given him to make the case on behalf of his constituents. I would argue that neither Denton nor Melksham deserves to be left any longer in such a plight.

I know that other Members want to speak, so I will conclude. I have tried to use examples local to my constituents to illustrate a few national discussion points about the future direction of rail investment. Each region, area and sector of the industry—indeed, each Government—has had its own priorities for the future, but we are discussing substantial investment commitments that will far outlast this Parliament, the political careers of many of us and the current economic cycle. Rail planning has too often been characterised by short-termism and a lack of strategic vision. The coalition Government’s stated belief is that

“a modern transport infrastructure is essential for a dynamic and entrepreneurial economy”

and that

“we need to make the transport sector greener and more sustainable.”

I could not agree more, and I do not think that any Member here would depart substantially from that view. It is certainly consistent with the Transport Committee report that forms the basis for this debate. Our challenge is to take a long-term strategic view, interact with all players in the rail supply chain, engage with the businesses and communities that use the railways and align our objectives for rail planning with wider economic and environmental aims.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

I am pleased to contribute to this important debate. I congratulate the Transport Committee on its report and my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman) on securing this debate. I am pleased to have had the opportunity to listen to the views and concerns of right hon. and hon. Members. There has been good, thoughtful and powerful debate from all parts of the Chamber. The Select Committee report posed a number of questions about the future of the rail industry that are relevant to our deliberations today. The report might be a year old, but it is very much a case of back to the future. Many of the challenges outlined in the report are still to be answered satisfactorily or properly addressed by the Government.

The report looked at a wide range of issues facing the rail industry. There are perhaps too many to cover adequately in the time that we have left. A key issue is how we deal with severe overcrowding on services and how we realign rail investment more equally across the whole country. The report considered ways in which we could increase electrification on the network and examined rail investments that could be shared with all parts of the country.

As you are no doubt aware, Mr Owen, Labour is currently undertaking a policy review. As part of that, the transport team is looking at the ways in which we can deliver improvements in our railways. With nothing ruled in or out at this stage and with all ideas on the table for further discussion and examination, these ongoing discussions will form the basis of Labour party policy on transport for the next general election. A number of the ideas that have been raised today will be considered seriously.

[Mrs Villiers]

Does the hon. Gentleman’s party still support high-speed rail or not?

[Andrew Gwynne]

The Minister pre-empts what I will come to later in my contribution, but we are in favour of faster trains and better connectivity, and high-speed rail will certainly form part of our policy review.

Returning to the Transport Committee’s report, there are a few issues that it addressed that I would like to revisit briefly. As the report clearly identified, it is likely that there will be serious capacity issues all over the rail network in the years to come, and the Labour party remains committed to addressing both overcrowding and capacity issues on the network. However, where a Government makes future investment in the rail network is clearly important and tough decisions have to be made about the future priorities of the network.

As the report also clearly identified, investment decisions will have a huge impact on regional growth, and those decisions can help to perpetuate a vicious cycle of increasing disparity of wealth between regions. They will be all the more important in light of the abolition of the regional development agencies, which was referred to by both my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside and the hon. Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard). I myself represent a constituency in the north-west of England, so it is frustrating for me to see how rail congestion is having a real economic impact in areas such as Manchester and in the wider north-west, with knock-on effects on jobs and prosperity for my constituents and others.

The report rightly identified the northern hub as the key to improving rail services across the north of England. As we have already heard, it is an ambition of the northern hub project to increase train services in the north, including to cities such as Newcastle, Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds and Sheffield, by 40% during the next 20 years. That means 700 more trains a day, making it possible for 3.5 million more passengers to travel by train every year. The estimated wider economic impact of the project is also significant, with the creation of 23,000 new jobs and a return of £4 for every £1 that is spent. Of course, it has been frustrating for the northern hub project that there are no firm commitments about when work on that worthwhile and economically beneficial project will start. I want to take this opportunity to ask the Minister if she envisages that the project will be in the next Network Rail control period.

The report also examined the benefits of electrification, both for the environment and for improving the efficiency of our rail network. As we know, a number of regional schemes were announced by the previous Labour Government, and many of them were reconfirmed by the current Government through the comprehensive spending review. As yet, we are still awaiting a final decision on whether or not the Great Western main line electrification will extend all the way to Wales. People in Wales will feel pretty upset if that decision is delayed unduly, especially when the Conservative party manifesto itself said:

“We support…the electrification of the Great Western line to South Wales.”

I am not sure whether there were any Welsh MPs in the room during the coalition negotiations, because that commitment was subsequently downgraded to a general statement of support for

“further electrification of the rail network.”

It is crucial that the economic benefits of electrification extend to south Wales, and by that I mean that electrification should extend not only to Cardiff but Swansea.

Similarly, we wait with bated breath to see whether the newly electrified lines in the north-west, when they are eventually upgraded, will actually have electrified trains running on them from day one. Rightly there is a concern that, with delays to Thameslink, the carriage cascade to the north-west will be delayed. After all the internal investment to electrify the north-west part of the network, it would be a travesty if the old, overcrowded and slower diesel units continue to be used on the newly electrified lines.

I would warmly welcome any updates on these issues that the Minister can give us today. Can she let me know when there will be a decision on electrification to Wales? Likewise, can she outline the time scales that are in place for the replacement of Thameslink rolling stock and for cascading trains to the Great Western main line and the north-west?

The Transport Committee report also identified the importance of having new rolling stock on the network. Clearly, the delaying and reprofiling of some major schemes that had been announced by Labour is disappointing, especially as train fares were hiked up last month, but new carriages remain some years away for some commuters.

It is a similar story regarding the delivery of replacement stock for the outdated inter-city fleet. Clearly, the Government have delayed their decision on the inter-city express programme, with all the knock-on effects for cascading rolling stock. It is time that the Government ended the delays and allowed that project to proceed.

[Mrs Villiers]

I will not take any lectures from the hon. Gentleman—a Labour MP—about the IEP, given that his Government made little progress on it and spent £26 million on merely trying to procure the new trains.

[Andrew Gwynne]

I would welcome an update from the Minister about where that infrastructure project has got to and when we can expect to see new inter-city trains.

After rail fares increased last month by RPI plus 1%, as we have already heard, it is disappointing for commuters that the Secretary of State keeps claiming that fare increases across the CSR period will be only 10%. Is not the truth that RPI plus 3% will deliver a cumulative increase of more than 30% on the inflation forecasts by the Office for Budget Responsibility?

The Minister’s Department confirmed to me—it seems that it has also confirmed this to my hon. Friend the Member for Luton South (Gavin Shuker) in an answer to a written question—that it expects the effect of those rises to be rail passengers opting for other forms of transport. There is a concern, which the Minister used to share, that higher fares will price people off trains. That concern exists despite what the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) has said. In turn, pricing people off trains will reduce people’s access to work and force them back on to the roads, generating more congestion, increasing carbon emissions and setting back our goal of achieving a sustainable transport system.

Briefly, I want to talk about high-speed rail, which was also mentioned in the Transport Committee’s report. As I have said in response to an intervention by the Minister, the Labour transport review will look at all areas of policy in detail, including high-speed rail. Clearly it is right that we should look in detail at the best way of delivering faster journey times between our core cities while increasing capacity.

The connectivity gains of high-speed rail arise not only from faster trains but from the new route alignments that comprise the proposed Y-shaped network of lines from London to Birmingham and—eventually—north to Manchester, Leeds and beyond. However, I have a real concern about the Government’s commitment to taking the planned high-speed line to the north. They have decided not to use the forthcoming high-speed legislation to secure the legal powers that would be needed to take the line beyond Birmingham, as Labour had planned to do. We will support the Government in taking the line beyond Birmingham, if that is what they choose to do. Perhaps the Minister can provide us with assurances that the Government will look again at seeking powers to extend the route beyond Birmingham.

It is also worth briefly mentioning freight on the rail network, which was an issue referred to both in the Transport Committee’s report and by my hon. Friend the Member for Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins). Freight operations play a big part in the economy, and we should look at ways of ensuring that freight capacity can continue to play a role in the rail network. Will the Minister outline how she sees rail freight being prioritised, especially with an eye on possible structural changes to Network Rail in the coming years? Indeed, is rail freight still a Government priority?

That brings me on to the McNulty review on value for money, which will have a real bearing on the future functioning of the rail network. I welcome that review of the rail industry, which was started by Labour when we were in government. When Sir Roy McNulty publishes his final report in April, we will consider any sensible proposals that would take costs out of the industry without reducing the quality of services for passengers. Does the Minister agree that, as the cost to the Government of running the railways comes down, the cost to the public of travelling by train should come down as well? Such a reduction would go some way towards helping hard-pressed commuters up and down the country, who are facing record fare rises of more than 30% in the next few years. The initial findings of the McNulty review have suggested that savings of £1 billion can be found without cutting services. Will the Minister now commit to sharing the benefits of those savings with passengers and to rethinking some of the fare rises that are due in future years?

In conclusion, as the Transport Committee report shows, the Government need a long-term vision for rail, and we need to deliver projects to build on our ambition to have a world-class rail service in this country. Where we agree with the Government, we will support them. The previous Labour Government left the rail network in a far better condition than the one in which we found it. Rail passenger numbers increased by 40% during the last decade, punctuality and quality of service also improved steadily in that time and consumer satisfaction with services increased. However, I recognise that there is still a huge amount to do, and this Transport Committee report is a good starting point for that future work.

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Thursday 2nd December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mike Penning]

I pay credit to the work that my hon. Friend has done over many years on road safety. The truth of the matter is that some speed cameras do fantastic work, and some do not. In local authority areas such as Swindon, where speed cameras have been stopped altogether, there has been no indication of an increase in accidents since they have gone. It is for local authorities to decide, and we will work with them, but the public must be with them when it comes to speed cameras. The public must, whatever happens, be confident that speed cameras are there for the right reason.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

The Minister has said:

“We would expect that road safety would remain a priority for local communities and that local spending would reflect that.”

The RAC calculates that speed cameras save 70 lives a year. Can the Minister tell the House how it is supposed to ensure that road safety remains a priority when his Government are cutting funding to local government by more than 30%? Is not the truth that ending Government funding for speed cameras is nothing to do with dictating priorities to local government but all about them making cuts to vital road safety measures that he does not wish to defend?

[Mike Penning]

The shadow Minister is better than that; he knows full well that some speed cameras work very well and some do not. The pre-2004 speed cameras in many areas, including my own, where the money was hypothecated straight back to the local authorities, were there to raise cash, not necessarily to prevent accidents. It is up to local authorities to use the money that has been given to them by central Government for their communities. It is for them to decide, not central Government.

High Speed 2

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd November 2010 Westminster Hall

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

It is good to see you in the Chair, Mr Weir. I am pleased to be able to contribute to this important debate. I congratulate the hon. Member for Wycombe (Steve Baker) on securing the debate. I was glad to have the opportunity to listen to the views, opinions and concerns of right hon. and hon. Members.

The Labour Government brought forward the original idea for High Speed 2, and I welcome the fact that the coalition Government will continue with that project through the next stages. However, I note from reports in The Daily Telegraph over the weekend that high-speed rail is causing the Conservative part of the coalition some local difficulty, with at least three Ministers being publically opposed—including, if reports are correct, a Cabinet Minister. Indeed, the paper quoted the Secretary of State for Wales as saying:

“I would defy the party whip—be very, very sure of that.”

We will have to see whether Cabinet Ministers are willing to vote against the Government on this issue. None the less, the Minister who is here today obviously enjoys the support of the hon. Member for Warrington South (David Mowat), who made a valid case for the economy of the north-west of England—as a north-west MP, I certainly agree with much of what he said—and she has the in-principle support of the hon. Members for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart) and for Calder Valley (Craig Whittaker).

A project of this size and scale will, of course, not be without controversy. Without doubt, good travel links between Britain’s major cities are central to our economy. We need a transport system that is high-capacity, efficient and sustainable.

[Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that, in developing the eastern part of the Y, it is important that core cities such as Nottingham are included, so that they too can reap the benefits not only of faster routes to London but of better connectivity to Yorkshire and Birmingham?

[Andrew Gwynne]

When we go into the details of what is proposed, we certainly need to ensure that connectivity with the English regions—the hon. Lady makes a powerful case for the city of Nottingham—are included.

As the economy grows, people will travel for employment and leisure, and there will be more demand to move freight, something that is not sufficiently considered in relation to rail. The Labour Government rightly believed that improved transport capacity would be needed between our major cities from the 2020s, starting with the route from London to the west midlands, two of Britain’s largest conurbations. Projections show that by then the west coast main line will be at capacity. By 2033, the average long-distance west coast main line train is projected to be 80% full, and severe overcrowding will be routine for much of the time. There will also be a significant increase in traffic and congestion on the motorways between and around London, Birmingham and Manchester, far beyond the problems experienced at these locations today.

The Labour Government’s view was that high-speed rail would be one way to provide more capacity between the UK’s main conurbations in the long term. The extra boost provided by a high-speed line would substantially increase existing rail capacity. That would happen not only as a result of the new track but because the track and stations would make possible a far greater length of train, and because high-speed trains would be segregated from other passenger and freight services.

It is worth bearing it in mind that upgrading existing rail lines would yield much less capacity than a high-speed line and at greater cost in both money and disruption, but without most of the journey time savings. That is something that we saw with the recent £9 billion upgrade of the west coast main line; although the benefits were considerable, they were essentially incremental, coming after years of chronic disruption to passengers and businesses.

Journey time savings from high-speed rail will be significant. The journey time from London to the west midlands would be reduced to between 30 and 50 minutes, depending on the stations used. Manchester could be brought within approximately an hour of London, down from almost 2 hours and 10 minutes. Through-services from Glasgow and Edinburgh to London would be down to just three and a half hours.

The connectivity gains of high-speed rail will come not only from faster trains but from the new route alignments that comprise the proposed Y-shaped network of lines from London to Birmingham, and eventually north to Manchester and Leeds.

[Mark Lazarowicz]

Will my hon. Friend confirm that the Labour party’s ultimate objective is that the high-speed line should go directly to Scotland, and that we should not rely on existing services for part of the line? Obviously, things cannot be done at the same time everywhere in the UK, but will he confirm that that is Labour’s objective?

[Andrew Gwynne]

When Labour was in Government it was always envisaged that the high-speed lines would eventually connect with Scotland. In the long term, that will be crucial to the economies of Scotland and the English regions.

The new network would overcome some of the limitations of the old network, which has three separate and poorly interconnected main lines, each with own its London terminus. An important factor is that the high-speed network would enable key local, national and international networks to be better integrated. In particular, including an interchange station with the new Crossrail line just west of Paddington on the approach of the high-speed line to central London would greatly enhance the benefits of both Crossrail and the high-speed line. A Crossrail interchange station could deliver a fast and frequent service to London’s west end, the City and docklands. The total journey time from central Birmingham to Canary Wharf could be just 70 minutes.

A boost to the west midlands economy is anticipated to the tune of £5.3 billion a year, and to that of the north-west of £10.6 billion a year at today’s rates.

[Christopher Pincher]

The hon. Gentleman said that there would be a benefit to the west midlands. Is he aware that I asked a parliamentary question of the Department for Transport in order to ascertain what the benefits would be to Staffordshire? The Department responded that it had made no such analysis.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Gwynne]

I was referring to the west midlands metropolitan area, but I am not responsible for the replies given by the Department for Transport.

[David Mowat]

On that point, the figure cited by the hon. Gentleman of just over £5 billion came from the West Midlands chamber of commerce. The figure was generated in the region, and one would imagine that it is most unlikely that some of the money did not come from Staffordshire.

[Andrew Gwynne]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for clarifying that point.

If, in time, an extension of the network to Scotland was to proceed, there would be a benefit of nearly £20 billion to its economy. HS 2 believes that the benefits of high-speed rail far outweigh the estimated costs, with the project yielding more than £2 of benefit for every £1 of cost.

There are clearly several arguments in favour of high-speed rail. It is a possible solution to the expected increase in passenger numbers, it will undoubtedly slash journey times and it could allow a much better integration of existing rail services regionally, nationally and internationally. However, we have to take on board the fact that not everyone is in favour of high-speed rail. I accept that, as the hon. Members for Wycombe and for North Warwickshire (Dan Byles) said, some communities will be impacted through the construction and operation of high-speed rail. The Labour Government were mindful of the fact that, in making proposals for a route, there has to be an attempt to minimise local impacts while achieving the wider objectives.

[Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that there would be merit in considering ways to give benefits to those communities impacted by the track—for example, by having spurs off the new tracks that offered interim stops on occasion?

[Andrew Gwynne]

That might be one solution to such concerns.

We need to ensure that people are fully consulted on changes that could affect their areas, and not only on the Chilterns or Buckinghamshire but, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson) said, on Euston and Primrose Hill. Indeed, my right hon. Friend made some powerful points.

The coalition Government must have meaningful, extensive and detailed consultation, particularly with the local communities affected, and they must be keen to listen and to balance the concerns of those communities, many of which we have heard about today in this debate. No route in a project of this significance will be without controversy, which is why there absolutely must be adequate consultation of the affected communities, together with consultation on the exceptional hardship scheme for those whose properties may be affected by proximity to the preferred route.

May I ask the Minister how detailed the consultation process about the plan for the new route will be? Will it give us a detailed account of the streets, properties and landholdings that will be directly affected by the planning process? Significant time will be needed to ensure that consultation is properly conducted and considered. I welcome the proposed exceptional hardship scheme for those whose properties may be directly affected. What time scales do the Government have to introduce provisions for owners of properties nearby the planned route that may not necessarily be directly affected by the construction? Finally, can the Minister tell me how many applications have been received so far for the exceptional hardship scheme?

The Labour Government proposed the high-speed rail that would link London to Birmingham and eventually to Manchester, Leeds and beyond, which is the widely backed “Y”-shaped network. I welcome the fact that the coalition Government, after a few wobbles, have come out and supported that network instead of their unworkable “S”- shape. That was perhaps not so much a U-turn as a “Y-turn”, although my right hon. Friend the Member for Holborn and St Pancras has now thrown an “H”-shape into the mix.

I turn now to some specific issues. What consideration will be given to ensuring that the high-speed rail network is available to rail freight, which is an increasingly important part of the railway jigsaw? Does the Minister plan to have further talks with the Scottish Executive about possible network extension to Scotland in due course? Will she outline the time scale that the Government envisage for commencing construction of the first part of the network? Has her Department begun work on preparing the hybrid Bill that would have to be presented to Parliament to make the new network a reality in this Parliament?

The high-speed rail project could be of national strategic significance to this country, and I hope that we will be able to work across the House to secure a rail link that is worthy of a great country in the 21st century.

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Thursday 28th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Norman Baker]

The local sustainable transport fund is a fund of £560 million during the rest of this Parliament. By anybody’s standards, that is an enormous sum to spend on prioritising local transport, cycling, walking, bus services—if that is what local authorities want to do—bus lanes and other such traffic management matters. I would have hoped that the hon. Gentleman would welcome that commitment by the Government; it is an enormous sum for those particular objectives.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

I thank the Department for responding so quickly to my named day questions, although I do not consider “I will answer this question shortly” to be much of a reply. On the bus service operators grant, the Minister has said:

“The benefits of that grant are clear: it ensures that the bus network remains as broad as possible, while keeping fares lower and bringing more people on to public transport, with the obvious benefits of reducing congestion…in our towns and cities.”—[Official Report, 29 June 2010; Vol. 512, c. 842.]

Given his swingeing 20% cut to the grant, why will he not now accept that fares are likely to go up, passenger numbers will decrease and congestion will worsen?

[Norman Baker]

First, the stories in the press throughout recent months have been suggesting that the bus service operators grant will be abolished, but they have clearly been completely off tack. Indeed, the cut to the grant has been less than the average for the Department, in recognition of the importance of bus services to local people. I come back to the point made by the Confederation of Passenger Transport UK, which, after all, represents the bus industry and so, with due respect, perhaps knows more about buses than the hon. Gentleman might do. It has said that, in general, the reduction can be absorbed without fares having to rise; that is the view of the industry.

Railway Industry

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Tuesday 19th October 2010 Westminster Hall

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

I am pleased to contribute to this important debate about the future of the rail industry, particularly as this is my first official outing as a member of the Opposition Front-Bench transport team. I also congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for North Ayrshire and Arran (Katy Clark) on securing the debate today.

In recent years, a welcome consensus has developed around the importance of support for the railways, both the conventional and high-speed varieties. All parties recognise the important role that the rail industry must play in reducing the environmental impact of travel, and welcome the growth in passenger numbers that we have seen in recent years, to the point where more people travel by train today than at any point since the 1940s.

We need a system that works effectively and puts the needs of passengers, and indeed freight, at its core. We all want a clean, safe and efficient train network in the future, and one that is fit for purpose. The previous Labour Government were committed to providing that and, as my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) said, we hope that the current Government recognise the need to continue the investment in the railways that our country so desperately needs. Given the comprehensive spending review tomorrow, we may well soon see how committed the Government are to the future of the railway industry. Like my hon. Friend the Member for North Ayrshire and Arran, I also welcome the lobby today by trade unionists and the TUC. We should remember that everyone is rightly concerned about the cuts that might be announced in the near future.

I would like to look at fares. The coalition’s programme for government stated that they were

“committed to fair pricing for rail travel.”

Will the Minister comment on reports from Channel 4 News over the weekend which speculated that we could face double-digit rises in train fares over each year of the spending review? It was reported that train fares are expected to be more than 30% higher by 2015, and industry sources pointed to a possible 40% hike in prices by 2015.

Media reports also suggested that the cost of a typical commuter season ticket between Brighton and London could increase from £3,104 a year to £4,260 by 2015, and between Swindon and London from £6,640 to £9,130. Does the Minister think that long-suffering train users will be willing to accept that?

[Mrs Villiers]

I would be grateful if the shadow Minister answered a question. Is he saying that if Labour had been re-elected, it would have cut rail fares?

[Andrew Gwynne]

I am very grateful to the Transport Minister for that, but of course it is my job to ask her questions. Labour is in opposition and I am asking whether she thinks that those kinds of speculative rail increases are fair on passengers.

[Mrs Villiers]

The hon. Gentleman should not believe all he reads in the papers. The coalition is committed to fairness on rail fares. The announcement on the fares formula for the next few years will be made on Wednesday in the comprehensive spending review.

[Andrew Gwynne]

I appreciate that, but it could well mean that some lines end up with a pricing of RPI—the retail prices index—plus 5%. That is particularly ironic, as the hon. Member for Lewes (Norman Baker), who is now a Transport Minister, was elected on a pledge in the Liberal Democrat manifesto on train fares for RPI minus 1%; and the Secretary of State, as the Minister has reiterated today, has previously said that he has made a commitment to fair fares.

Passengers will not pay more for less. If they see increasing fares alongside cuts to plans for new capacity and infrastructure, that could mean fewer people travelling by rail. What guarantees do we have that fare rises will be matched by infrastructure and capacity improvements? I appreciate that the Minister will be reluctant—perhaps unable—to add much today and we shall have to wait to see what the Chancellor of the Exchequer says in tomorrow’s comprehensive spending review.

Franchising was mentioned. The Government’s consultation includes an intention to impose a far more relaxed and flexible specification. Flexibility can be a good thing, but there is a worry that a hands-off approach could allow train companies to become too focused on short-term profit and cost cutting, rather than delivering the best service for passengers and encouraging greater use of the railway. Will the Minister give me assurances that that will not be the case and that sufficient specification to guarantee socially important services will remain?

It is encouraging that there is interest in rail franchise bids from not-for-profit, mutual or co-operative franchise enterprises. Indeed, I note that my hon. Friend the Member for Luton South (Gavin Shuker) has secured a debate on that topic in Westminster Hall tomorrow. However, there are still unfair barriers that prevent such bids from benefiting passengers and taxpayers, as we saw recently with the attempt by the Co-op through its Go! Co-operative initiative, which would have been the UK’s first co-operative train operating company.

I shall refer briefly to some recent investments in rail. It is important to acknowledge, as my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington and others did, the significant progress that the previous Labour Government made in the past decade in rebuilding the country’s transport infrastructure after many decades of under-investment, which happened, to be fair, under Governments of all political persuasions.

We have completed the £9 billion programme to modernise the west coast main line, resulting in massive reductions in journey times, as I thankfully know from experience. It is now less than two hours from Stockport to London and, more importantly for me on a Thursday, from London back to Stockport.

Performance, capacity, reliability and safety levels throughout the rail network have improved significantly. High Speed 1 was up and running ahead of schedule, and the stunning redevelopment of St Pancras station proved to be a fitting terminal for high-speed trains to and from the continent. We delivered Britain’s first high-speed rail line and set out plans for a new north-south high-speed rail network—points made by my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington and by the hon. Member for Angus (Mr Weir).

We more than doubled investment in local transport from 1997, improving accessibility and helping to tackle social exclusion in local communities. By May 2010, investment in transport had reached its highest level as a proportion of national income for 30 years. In addition, Labour finally achieved what previous Governments had tried but failed to do, in securing a funding deal for Crossrail. That is one of the most ambitious transport projects of recent years and will add 30,000 high-value jobs to London in the first 10 years and add an estimated £20 billion to the UK’s gross domestic product. We also set in place the £5.5 billion upgrading of Thameslink, which will introduce new cross-London routes and, with longer, more frequent trains, will allow for much-needed capacity, more seats and less crowding on key routes in the capital.

The northern hub made it an ambition over the next 20 years to increase the number of train services in the north, including cities such as Newcastle, Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds and Sheffield, by 40%—700 more trains a day—making it possible for 3.5 million more passengers to travel by train every year. Those innovative and challenging projects were either delivered or planned. We need to continue that long-term focus on infrastructure and service if we are to provide Britain with the transport system that it needs to compete in the new global economy.

I wish to raise some specific issues with the Government. Transport cuts so far have totalled £683 million. That includes £108 million coming from Transport for London and £50 million from the better stations programme. I declare an interest, as that had a particular effect on Stockport station, which affects some of my constituents. The plans for hundreds of extra carriages to ease overcrowding have been put on hold.

In opposition, the Conservatives criticised the Labour Government in their 2009 rail review document, which recognised the need for extra capacity but accused us of not taking the problem seriously. There is a need for more trains, and I ask the Minister to tell us what the Government will do to alleviate that problem.

Can the Minister give me an assurance on electrification—an issue mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton West (Julie Hilling)—both of the north-west routes and the great western main line, which are important projects to both regions? Likewise, can the Minister confirm that the Thameslink replacement of rolling stock will go ahead, which would in turn lead to the cascading of trains to the great western main line and the north-west routes?

The Government owe it to London’s business community and the travelling public to be open about their plans for Crossrail. Will the Crossrail project be delivered in full, as proposed by the previous Labour Government? Will there be any cost cutting in areas such as engineering, which could lead to shorter platforms and less capacity? Will the number of stations on Crossrail remain unchanged?

May I ask also about the bonfire of the quangos that we saw last week? What plans does the Minister have for Passenger Focus and what will its functions be now? How will disabled passengers be heard effectively now that the present Government have abolished the Disabled Persons Transport Advisory Committee? The input of disabled passengers should be important, and that body provided a unique opportunity for both disabled people and industry to represent their case to Government.

The Government need to look beyond the period of the comprehensive spending review. We need a long-term vision for rail and we need to deliver these projects to build on our ambition for a world-class rail service in this country. The previous Labour Government left the rail network in a far better condition than we found it in. Rail passenger numbers increased by 40% in the past 10 years, and punctuality and quality of service improved steadily over that time, too. That is not an inheritance that the current Government should squander.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Villiers]

Both the Secretary of State and I have repeatedly talked about our support for delivering the whole project, and it is worth bearing in mind the excellent work done by the team behind Crossrail to find lower-cost ways to deliver the same transport benefits, and to deliver the whole project.

It is true that there has been significant good news on the railways in recent years. Since privatisation there have been some striking successes, with train punctuality now at record levels and a significant increase in the number of passenger journeys. Also, the number of miles travelled on the railways has gone up by 75%. Since privatisation, therefore, a story of managed decline has been transformed into one of significant growth. Although the recession has subdued that trend to a degree, we expect it to resume once the economy recovers.

So, that is some of the good news about the UK’s railways. But the downside is that the cost of running the railways did rise dramatically under our Labour predecessors. If we are to deliver the improvements to services and capacity that hon. Members have called for today, and that passengers want, we have to find a way to get costs down. The disastrous deficit left for us by our predecessors makes it essential that we drive out cost inefficiencies on the railways, and we owe it to passengers to do our very best to get costs down.

[Andrew Gwynne]

Does the Minister not also recognise that it was the investment by the previous Labour Government that led to the very improvements that she has just championed as a cause of privatisation?

[Mrs Villiers]

I certainly recognise that the previous Government invested in the railways, and we would expect investment to continue under the current Government, given the huge importance of the railways to our economy and to our climate change ambitions. I covered the fares issue briefly in response to the shadow Minister, but I shall repeat my comments on it. The coalition is committed to fairness in rail fares, but the reality is that the crisis in the public finances means that we might have to take some difficult decisions on fares, as in other areas. As I have said, I am unable to give further details on the fares formula until it is announced for the coming years in the CSR on Wednesday.

There has been much discussion about the McNulty process, which is focused on trying to understand why the cost of the railways is higher in this country than in other parts of Europe, and I am sure that today’s discussion will contribute to and inform that process. It is important that a range of options be considered, and as part of our drive to deliver high-quality rail services at an affordable cost we need to consider how we reform Network Rail. Not even the levels of taxpayer support over recent years have succeeded in turning the company into the customer-oriented organisation that train and freight operators want. That fact was driven home when the rail regulator published the figures, to which the hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran referred: the potential 40% efficiency gap between Network Rail and European comparators. I acknowledge that there are always problems comparing Network Rail precisely with different railways in the rest of Europe, but these things should sound a warning bell that there is an issue to be addressed. If we are to be fair to passengers and the taxpayer, we need to find a way to make Network Rail more efficient.

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Thursday 17th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Norman Baker]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his kind welcome. He was always considerate and helpful to me when I was in opposition, and I shall try to be equally helpful to him, now that the position has changed.

The legislation on quality contracts is as it is; it was set out and passed under the previous Government, and it remains in place. The Competition Commission is undertaking an investigation into the bus market, and it would be premature for me to make any further comments until it is completed.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

11. What assessment he has made of the merits of the 3a and 3b extensions to the Manchester Metrolink; and if he will make a statement.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker)]

Phases 3a and 3b of the Manchester Metrolink were approved for funding by the previous Government. Construction of phase 3a is under way. Phase 3b has been re-examined following the announcement by the Chief Secretary to the Treasury on 17 May of a review of spending approval granted since 1 January this year.

[Andrew Gwynne]

With regard to the phase 3b contract for the Ashton-under-Lyne extension, it is important to note that substantial amounts of public funding have already been spent on the route, and significant advance works to provide dedicated strengthened central reserves and bridges have now been completed. Studies show that the East Manchester line will be commercially viable only if it goes all the way through to Ashton. Will the Minister confirm that all those issues will be factored into the review and that they will be carefully considered before a decision is made?

[Norman Baker]

The hon. Gentleman makes a number of pertinent points, and I understand the thrust of his argument and the strength of his case. I cannot give him a specific assurance at this precise moment, but I suggest that he will be interested to hear the statement that is shortly to be made from the Treasury Bench.