Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andrew Selous and Michael Fabricant
Thursday 22nd February 2024

(1 month ago)

Commons Chamber
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Andrew Selous Portrait Andrew Selous
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That guidance is being updated, so I can reassure my hon. Friend on that point. He is right that clergy will always rightly tell everyone they come across about the love of Jesus, but clergy do not determine asylum claims. Of course, priests are expected to uphold the law and make truthful representations of character. I hope that reassures him. I also note that in the recent Times investigation of 28 cases heard by the upper tribunal where a claimant cited conversion to Christianity as a reason to be granted asylum, only seven were approved, 13 were dismissed, and new hearings were ordered in eight other cases.

Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant
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My hon. Friend will have heard the comments made by my hon. Friend the Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) at Prime Minister’s questions. The problem is, this brings the Church of England into disrepute. It implies that some vicars are naive, foolish and innocent. It is important for the credibility of the Church of England that training is more robust and that well-meaning folk do not endanger our society.

Andrew Selous Portrait Andrew Selous
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I hear very clearly what my hon. Friend says. I know that he, like me, takes seriously the reputation of the Church of England. He cares a great deal about it, and I am grateful to him for that. I repeat the answer I gave my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone): priests are required to use discernment, to recognise that there might be mixed motives, and always to put forward truthful representations of character.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andrew Selous and Michael Fabricant
Thursday 11th January 2024

(2 months, 2 weeks ago)

Commons Chamber
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Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
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1. Whether the Commissioners are taking steps to support choral music in cathedrals.

Andrew Selous Portrait The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
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The Church Commissioners provided £1 million to support music in cathedrals during the pandemic. That sum was match funded by the Cathedral Music Trust. The commissioners are extremely grateful to the trust for doing what it did to help ensure that worship in our cathedrals remains of the highest calibre.

Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant
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My hon. Friend will know that cathedral schools, such as Lichfield Cathedral School, play an important part in providing young choristers for cathedrals, but they are very concerned that if they have to charge 20% on their fees, and possibly lose their charitable status, they may no longer be viable and will go bust. What assessment have the commissioners made of the effects of such a change?

Andrew Selous Portrait Andrew Selous
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I can tell my hon. Friend that there is a concern that cathedral schools may not be able to afford to pay business rates. If the payment of business rates and the addition of VAT on fees cause choir schools to close, that would be an issue for a number of cathedrals.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andrew Selous and Michael Fabricant
Thursday 16th November 2023

(4 months, 2 weeks ago)

Commons Chamber
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Andrew Selous Portrait Andrew Selous
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As always, the hon. Gentleman is on the money. I can tell him that the Church’s strategic mission and ministry investment board is doing exactly that: investing in a range of different organisations that are connecting really well with young people, often through community projects. Large numbers of them are coming to church and staying there, which is brilliant.

Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
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3. If the Church Commissioners will take steps to share good practice from the work of the Lichfield cathedral summer school.

Andrew Selous Portrait Andrew Selous
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I thank my hon. Friend and the cathedral chapter at Lichfield for their warm welcome on my recent visit, which I greatly enjoyed. The Lichfield cathedral summer school is indeed an inspiration to the wider Church in supporting children, many of whom are on free school meals, to socialise and learn before the new school year begins. It has expanded with county council support and the Government’s holiday activities and food programme, and it would like to operate throughout the school holidays. I warmly commend it.

Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant
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I thank my hon. Friend for his answer. It is the 20th anniversary of MusicShare, which started in Lichfield. Over 150 schools are engaged each year. I went to the anniversary concert in Lichfield cathedral last Saturday and saw “Noye’s Fludde”, which was written by Benjamin Britten. It was a spectacular occasion, with all the schoolchildren taking part. What more could Lichfield do to advise other cathedrals on how it ought to be done?

Andrew Selous Portrait Andrew Selous
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As so often, where Lichfield leads others follow. My hon. Friend is right that the choral tradition in our cathedrals is one of the glories of our country. Lichfield’s MusicShare programme has, I understand, reached 25,000 children, with participants of all ages, including people up to their 90s. That is, no doubt, why it has won a national award from The Times Educational Supplement.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andrew Selous and Michael Fabricant
Thursday 27th April 2023

(11 months, 1 week ago)

Commons Chamber
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Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
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10. What steps the Church of England plans to take to mark the coronation of His Majesty King Charles III in (a) cathedrals and (b) other places of worship outside of London; and if he will make a statement.

Andrew Selous Portrait The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
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There will be services and events all over the country in cathedrals and parish churches to celebrate the coronation. The one in Lichfield cathedral will be on Sunday 7 May, and I am sure that my hon. Friend will attend if he possibly can.

Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant
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My hon. Friend has put me on the spot, but I confirm that I will attend. I hope that reassures him. Could he quickly—or even slowly—outline what further work the Church of England is doing to engage people locally in the coronation?

Andrew Selous Portrait Andrew Selous
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I can reassure my hon. Friend that the Church is doing a great deal in that area. We are supporting the Big Help Out to promote volunteering, along with many charities and businesses, as well as the Big Lunch to break down barriers and combat loneliness. We also have Sing for the King and Ring for the King to promote choral singing and bell ringing, linked to the coronation. [Interruption.]

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andrew Selous and Michael Fabricant
Thursday 9th March 2023

(1 year ago)

Commons Chamber
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Andrew Selous Portrait Andrew Selous
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I am grateful to the Father of the House for reminding us of that important fact and of what the Church has done in the past, and I hope he will be equally supportive of what our right hon. Friend the Member for South Northamptonshire (Dame Andrea Leadsom) is doing with her fantastic initiative on family hubs. That is an important continuation of that early work.

Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
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7. If he will meet the Lord Bishop of Lichfield to discuss outreach work in that diocese.

Andrew Selous Portrait Andrew Selous
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I would be delighted to meet Michael Ipgrave, the new Lord Bishop of Lichfield, and I look forward to doing so very much indeed.

Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant
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I thank my hon. Friend for his answer. In fact, I was present in the other place when the now Lord Bishop of Lichfield, Michael Ipgrave, was introduced. We have many outreach projects in Lichfield. There is the St Michael’s church project, which has set up a film club that meets every month, and it offers a meal and a warm space. There is “Burntwood Be A Friend” and so many others. Is there any manner by which different dioceses can learn from each other?

Andrew Selous Portrait Andrew Selous
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I thank my hon. Friend for his continuous support for not just the cathedral, but the whole diocese of Lichfield. He makes an excellent point about sharing best practice. Dare I say it, but in public life and in government, we often do not do that as well as we could, and it would be good if the Church could show the way and lead as an example in that area. He is absolutely right.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andrew Selous and Michael Fabricant
Thursday 26th January 2023

(1 year, 2 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Andrew Selous Portrait Andrew Selous
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I do not think it is a question of either/or. When the chief executive of the Church Commissioners was on the “Today” programme recently explaining why we have done this, he was contacted later that day by a global majority heritage individual who had stayed away from the Church for 40 years and is now going to come back again. I say also to the hon. Gentleman that full churches do not tend to fall down.

Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
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7. Whether he plans to visit Lichfield cathedral to see the work of Dean Adrian Dorber.

Andrew Selous Portrait Andrew Selous
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I look forward very much to visiting Lichfield cathedral, but sadly that may not be until after Dean Adrian Dorber retires. I know that the dean’s work has been so significant that I will see many ongoing examples of his tremendous legacy when I do visit.

Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant
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My hon. Friend is absolutely right, because he will see the Herkenrode glass, which has been restored, and he will hear the magnificent organ, for which £6 million had to be raised to make it sound so beautiful. They are a reminder that a dean’s work is not just worship, but fundraising, management and all the other factors in running a great and successful cathedral such as Lichfield. What sort of training is given? It seemed to me that poor Adrian Dorber had to learn on the job and then, with a little bit more investigation, Mr Speaker—it is a bit like being a Speaker, actually—that they all have to learn on the job. Can we not improve on that?

Andrew Selous Portrait Andrew Selous
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One might think that Lichfield cathedral was the only cathedral in the Church of England, because my hon. Friend is one of the very few Members who regularly stands up for his cathedral. Running a cathedral, as he rightly says, is not only a major spiritual undertaking to proclaim the good news of Jesus, but a huge management task, which is why we require all new deans to undertake a component of an MBA module before taking up office.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andrew Selous and Michael Fabricant
Thursday 1st December 2022

(1 year, 3 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
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6. Whether he has held recent discussions with the chair of the Association of English Cathedrals on the maintenance costs of historic cathedrals.

Andrew Selous Portrait The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
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My hon. Friend continues to be an exemplary advocate for Lichfield cathedral, and I gently encourage other colleagues with cathedrals and major churches in their constituencies to stick up for them in the way that he does. I have spoken at the annual general meeting of the Association of English Cathedrals and I have also asked the Government to respond to the independent review of the sustainability of church buildings, published by Bernard Taylor. This matters for many reasons, not least the £55 billion of social value—calculated using Treasury Green Book guidance—generated by cathedrals and churches in the UK, according to the “House of Good” report by the National Churches Trust.

Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant
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I am grateful to my hon. Friend, particularly for his kind words about me, which were very decent of him. He will know that the chair of the Association of English Cathedrals was the Dean of Lichfield cathedral, Adrian Dorber. Sadly for the community in Lichfield, he is going to retire in March, after 17 and a half years’ service. Not only does he have theological skills, but he has raised millions of pounds, and his organisational and management skills are wonderful—many deans have those, but Adrian particularly does. Does my hon. Friend think that the Church of England could make more use of people when they retire and that they should not just disappear along with all their skills?

Andrew Selous Portrait Andrew Selous
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I, too, thank Adrian Dorber very much for everything he has done as a highly effective Dean of Lichfield, not just for Lichfield cathedral, but for the city and the wider Church. His chairmanship of the AEC has been outstanding. If he wants to continue to serve the Church after his retirement in March, I am sure that his wisdom will continue to be very much appreciated.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andrew Selous and Michael Fabricant
Thursday 28th April 2022

(1 year, 11 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
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10. What recent steps the Church of England has taken to support arts and culture; and if he will make a statement.

Andrew Selous Portrait The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
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The Church Commissioners, alongside the Cathedral Music Trust, supported cathedral choirs in 2020. Funding was also provided to support the heritage skills of stonemasons, glaziers and others. The culture recovery fund provided more than £60 million for 580 churches and cathedrals, and a partnership with the Wolfson Foundation, the Pilgrim Trust and the National Churches Trust has provided grants to pay for the care of historic interiors and collections.

Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant
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I am grateful for that answer. I do not always praise the Church of England, but I praise it for these initiatives. My hon. Friend will know what a beautiful city Lichfield is, as I hope you may find out soon, Mr Speaker—I will say no more on that. The cathedral is beautiful, too, and it is not only used for worship; it is also used for the wonderful Lichfield festival. May I invite my hon. Friend to come to the Lichfield festival to see and hear for himself what goes on in that beautiful cathedral?

Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Speaker
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I believe the Second Church Estates Commissioner will be put up in a house nearby, too.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andrew Selous and Michael Fabricant
Thursday 9th December 2021

(2 years, 3 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Andrew Selous Portrait Andrew Selous
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The hon. Gentleman, whom I call my friend, asks a question slightly beyond the remit of my responsibilities as the Second Church Estates Commissioner, but I will make inquiries on his behalf and write to him. I speak for the Church of England.

Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
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My hon. Friend said earlier—[Interruption.] Good point. I ask question 8.

Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant
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8. What discussions the Church Commissioners have had with the deans of English cathedrals on methodologies to generate sustainable incomes.

Andrew Selous Portrait Andrew Selous
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Being a new Member, my hon. Friend is still learning the ropes. I can tell him that the commissioners recently allocated £20 million to the cathedral sustainability fund, and grants have been made for more than 120 new posts in cathedrals to support fundraising, engagement and financial stability. Deans and staff from our 42 cathedrals also recently met to learn from each other and share best practice.

Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant
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Take two, Mr Speaker. My hon. Friend said earlier in answer to a previous question that according to the Treasury, £50 billion is generated for the economy by our lovely English cathedrals, including, of course, the 800-year-old cathedral in Lichfield. Cathedrals are not just places for worship; they are used as vaccination centres and concert halls, and even for political hustings and debates. They cost several million pounds each year to maintain, so could he say a bit more about what regular funding can be provided?

Andrew Selous Portrait Andrew Selous
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I am happy to do that. Indeed, £50 billion is the contribution to national wellbeing that the Treasury calculated through its Green Book methodology. My hon. Friend is one of Lichfield cathedral’s most steadfast and vocal supporters, and rightly so, because the cathedral is not just a centre of worship; it plays a vital role in the local community and economy by serving, for example, as a vaccination centre recently, as he said.

Although we are hugely grateful for the £29.4 million for cathedrals from the Government’s culture recovery fund, £140 million is needed for cathedral repairs and maintenance over the next five years. If we want our cathedrals to continue to be at the heart of our national life, we will all have to put our hands in our pockets to keep them in good repair, because we cannot let 800 years of worship and service fail on our watch.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andrew Selous and Michael Fabricant
Thursday 28th October 2021

(2 years, 5 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
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4. What estimate the Commissioners have made of the annual cost of maintaining England’s historic cathedrals; and if he will make a statement.

Andrew Selous Portrait The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)
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I should like to start by commending my hon. Friend for the consistent way in which he sticks up for his cathedral in Lichfield. Other Members could follow his example, if I may say so. In 2019, England’s 42 Anglican cathedrals estimated that they required £140 million for repairs and maintenance over the next five years. The Church Commissioners are providing from the cathedral sustainability fund £20 million between 2020 and 2022, which is double the original planned figure.

Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant
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I thank my hon. Friend for his kind comments and for his answer. Lichfield cathedral costs around £2 million a year to run. In good years, it is able to set aside a few hundred thousand pounds each year to try to repair the damage being done to an 800-year-old building by the usual environmental impacts. It is not making the £2 million, because we are still recovering from covid, so is there any chance of the recovery fund continuing?

Andrew Selous Portrait Andrew Selous
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The Church is very grateful to the Government for the culture recovery fund allocation for cathedrals of £29.4 million, of which £264,000 has been allocated to Lichfield cathedral. I would like to commend Gloucester cathedral’s Beacon of Hope appeal, which has raised more than £1 million. There has been a £3.1 million investment in craft training between the Cathedrals Workshop Fellowship and the Hamish Ogston Foundation, and cathedral gins have been launched at Blackburn, Portsmouth, Ripon and Bristol cathedrals in order to raise further funds. These are all examples that other cathedrals could follow.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andrew Selous and Michael Fabricant
Thursday 17th June 2021

(2 years, 9 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Andrew Selous Portrait Andrew Selous
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I could not agree with my hon. Friend more, and I can give him a complete assurance that the Church of England fully recognises the importance that so many people attach to worshipping communally together in church. At the same time, we are very keen not to lose those who join us online, and we hope we will be able to get to know many of our new online attendees as soon as possible in due course.

Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
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What discussions the commissioners have had with the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care on reintroducing choral singing in churches and cathedrals during the covid-19 outbreak.

Andrew Selous Portrait Andrew Selous
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The Church is having ongoing discussions with the Government about when choral and communal singing in churches and cathedrals can return, and I am very aware how frustrating the current situation is for choirs across the country.

Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Speaker
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Let us go to the shadow of Lichfield cathedral, with Michael Fabricant.

Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant [V]
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Some people relax with yoga, others with tai chi—perhaps you do, Mr Speaker—but in the good old days when I used to have a week in Westminster and then get back to Lichfield, I unwound by going to evensong in Lichfield cathedral, which is very relaxing indeed. Whatever reason people go to evensong—perhaps even religious reasons, for worship—there is a need for it to be restored. What assurance can my hon. Friend give that, come 19 July, things will truly get back to normal in Lichfield and elsewhere?

Andrew Selous Portrait Andrew Selous
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I was praising my hon. Friend in front of all the cathedral deans on Tuesday for his diligence on behalf of Lichfield cathedral. He is absolutely right about the beauty of our choral tradition and how much it is cherished. We all want to see a return as quickly as possible.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andrew Selous and Michael Fabricant
Thursday 26th November 2020

(3 years, 4 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Andrew Selous Portrait Andrew Selous
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My hon. Friend will know that there is a debate later today on this very subject, and he is absolutely right about the importance of inter-faith dialogue, which is why three years ago the Anglican primates launched an inter-faith commission to build mutual understanding and trust between different faiths. The Archbishop of Canterbury, who has a particular heart for reconciliation, said it

“will bring together the wisest people across the Communion to work on this area in the places of highest tension with the aim of replacing diversity in conflict with diversity in collaboration.”

Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
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What discussions the commissioners have had with the chairman of the Association of English Cathedrals on services during Christmastide; and if he will make a statement.

Andrew Selous Portrait Andrew Selous
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The Church Commissioners have regular discussions with the Association of English Cathedrals, and cathedrals have made huge efforts to reach out to people in their areas. Lichfield cathedral, which I know is close to my hon. Friend’s heart—I think that he lives within its shadow—will be having an illuminations show and will hold as many services as possible, including some outside if necessary.

Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Speaker
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Let us go to the shadows of Litchfield cathedral, with Michael Fabricant.

Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant [V]
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Thank you, Mr Speaker; I am indeed very close to Lichfield cathedral, and the dean of Lichfield cathedral is the chairman of the Association of English Cathedrals. We are all delighted that we are going to have services this year and he has sent me a question, and I am going to read it, because he only lives a few doors down, and I have given my hon. Friend prior notice of the question. The dean asks, “What additional support can be given to cathedrals in the first quarter of 2021 to ensure they remain open and responsive to public need?”

Andrew Selous Portrait Andrew Selous
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I thank my hon. Friend for his question, and I will be leaving these questions to go into a governors meeting of the Church Commissioners, so I will pass that on very directly. I can tell him that Lichfield cathedral has received £140,000 from the national lottery heritage emergency fund, but I know it needs extra funding for urgent building projects, including a buttress that is causing structural concern. I can also tell him that conversations with the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport and the Treasury about the Government’s own Taylor review of church and cathedral building sustainability are ongoing.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andrew Selous and Michael Fabricant
Thursday 25th June 2020

(3 years, 9 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Speaker
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We are now heading to the shadows of the spires of Lichfield cathedral with one Michael Fabricant.

Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant [V]
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Thank you, Mr Speaker: from where I am sitting now Lichfield cathedral is just about 100 yards behind me.

Lichfield has a great choral tradition; we have a choral school and the services are very good. It is open for two hours a day at the moment for private prayer, but when does my hon. Friend anticipate that we will be able to go to evensong and enjoy the wonderful choir that sings there?

Andrew Selous Portrait Andrew Selous
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My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Cathedrals such as Lichfield are at the centre of the amazing choral tradition that we have in this country. Sadly, I have to tell him that singing and chanting are not allowed even at a distance, due to the additional risk of infection, and woodwind and brass instruments should not be used, but that still leaves many other instruments. His constituents can return for public worship from 4 July and I know that Lichfield Cathedral will be making them very welcome when they return.