Exiting the European Union: Meaningful Vote

Ann Clwyd Excerpts

Tuesday 11th December 2018 Commons Chamber

[Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

I am grateful for your patience, Mr Speaker, as yesterday I had no voice. But today I do have a voice and I am going to use it. I was a proud Member of the European Parliament between 1979 and 1984. I am an internationalist. I believe that countries can achieve more by working together and trying to understand each other than by arguing and fighting each other. As an MEP, I became acutely aware of the importance of human rights and of countries that had fought each other in two world wars sitting together to bring about a lasting peace for Europe, of which the UK is a part and will always be a part. The EU has been a vital instrument in maintaining that peace, protecting our fundamental rights and rule of law, and increasing our national security and prosperity.

The Prime Minister has argued ceaselessly in the past few weeks that she has negotiated a withdrawal agreement that will allow us more control over issues such as immigration, while maintaining close ties with the EU, particularly in the economic sphere. Yet the leader of the Labour group in the European Parliament, Richard Corbett, points out that the political declaration on the future relationship between the UK and EU—rather crucial, one would have thought—cobbled together almost as an afterthought, sets out a 26-page to-do list, settling very little.

In essence, this Parliament is being asked to support a blindfold Brexit. Let us be clear that the Prime Minister’s deal means that most crucial issues would be settled only after Brexit, when the UK’s negotiating position is weaker and when we are no longer a member state, and in the context of an agreement that will need the ratification of every national Parliament of the 27, making it even more vulnerable. Our Parliament is invited to take part in a lucky dip—to give the go-ahead to Brexit without knowing what it means for key issues such as the final customs and single market arrangements, cross-border law enforcement mechanisms, participation in European research programmes, access to funding from the European Investment Bank, regulations for cross-border transport, data sharing, student exchanges, defence and security co-operation, and much else. The deal is a sham, and this whole procedure has been a farce. The Prime Minister is trying to sell her deal as better than no deal. She is delaying this vote in the hope that Parliament will run out of time and be forced into backing it. But Parliament now needs to make it clear that the choice is not just between no deal and the Prime Minister’s woeful deal, which she has herself now acknowledged as such, having gone to European capitals not only with her handbag but cap in hand.

Like all hon. Members, I have received a lot of correspondence asking me to support this deal and other correspondence asking me to support other things. But the vast majority are asking me to vote against this deal and support a people’s vote, with the latest polls putting Wales at more than 50% in favour of remain. The two leave options on the table are dangerous, and people need to be given a choice, now that they see what options are available, between no deal, the Prime Minister’s deal, or remaining. The only viable way ahead is a people’s vote. I want to stay in the EU, but it must be for the country to decide.

Oral Answers to Questions

Ann Clwyd Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

That is absolutely the aim of the summit. It has already galvanised people into action, including multilateral organisations around the world, which will be embedding disability in their programming.

[Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

Given the new statistics showing that the number of disabled people able to access legal aid here in the UK has fallen by 99% since 2011, what steps will the Secretary of State take with Cabinet colleagues to get the UK’s own house in order before we host a global summit?

[Penny Mordaunt]

When I speak to my opposite numbers in other nations, they tell me that one barrier to their making further progress is that they are starting from a low base. It is important that the summit is not just about the UK showcasing what it does; we can learn from other organisations, which is why we are co-hosting it with Kenya. My new role as Minister for Women and Equalities affords me the chance to make a difference in both the UK and the developing world.

Oral Answers to Questions

Ann Clwyd Excerpts

Wednesday 17th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Alistair Burt]

Even though time is tight, I must thank my right hon. Friend for the remarkable support he gave to the Foreign Office and the Department for International Development when he was a Whip and his remarkable contribution to Government over the years.

My right hon. Friend is right. We have a £75 million programme focused on migration along routes from west Africa via the Sahel to Libya. This includes an allocation of £5 million in Libya aimed at providing that aid. He is right to raise this.

[Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

I have repeatedly raised in this Chamber the abuse endured by migrants in the camps in Libya, including sexual violence against women, girls and men. Will the Minister confirm that Libya has been designated a priority country under the UK preventing sexual violence initiative? It should have been.

[Alistair Burt]

My right hon. Friend the International Development Secretary yesterday inaugurated exactly the programme the right hon. Lady mentions. It is a matter of great concern to the UK, and we are in contact with the Libyan Government about it. I had a high-level meeting in Geneva last week about the issues she raises.

European Council

Ann Clwyd Excerpts

Monday 18th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister has agreed with me three times over the past year about the important role the European Parliament has in the negotiations, because it has the power of veto at the end of the day. Eighty-six MPs have signed a letter that urges the Prime Minister to address a plenary session of the European Parliament. When will she do that?

[The Prime Minister]

We have been in discussions with the President of the European Parliament about the interaction that I will have with that Parliament. I had hoped to be able to speak to the Conference of Presidents at the end of November, but unfortunately that proved not to be possible from a European Parliament point of view. Nevertheless, we are still discussing a date on which I can go, and I keep in regular contact with President Tajani.

Oral Answers to Questions

Ann Clwyd Excerpts

Wednesday 29th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

We are extremely conscious of this matter. My right hon. Friend the Minister for the Middle East has been doing an enormous amount of work, looking at particular communities. There are enormous numbers of people—21 million—who are in an absolutely dire situation. As well as trying to get the immediate issues resolved, we must keep pressing for a political process and for all parties to engage with efforts of the UN’s Special Envoy.

[Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

It does not look as though the Prime Minister is being any more successful on this issue than she is on so many others. It really is a disgrace that although the Secretary of State’s Department is working on the humanitarian aspects by providing food and other aid to Yemen, we continue to sell arms to Saudi Arabia, which fuels the conflict. Where is the sense in that?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I understand the right hon. Lady’s concerns, but as I have said, while we do accept there are legitimate security concerns, that is entirely separate from, and should not be conflated with, preventing aid and commercial supplies from getting to a population. We are extremely concerned about the situation; we are extremely concerned that the coalition may be in breach of international humanitarian law, and I would refer her to the statement my right hon. Friend the Minister for the Middle East gave on 7 November.

UK Plans for Leaving the EU

Ann Clwyd Excerpts

Monday 9th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely spot on, on both counts. Indeed, in my Lancaster House speech, I said:

“I want us to have reached an agreement about our future partnership by the time the two-year Article Fifty process has concluded. From that point onwards, we believe a phased process of implementation”

to enable us to

“prepare for the new arrangements…will be in our mutual self-interest.”

So we thought of the implementation period quite a long time ago.

[Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

I have asked the Prime Minister the same question three times in this Chamber, given the importance of the European Parliament in the negotiations. Last time I asked her when she would address the plenary of the European Parliament. When will she do that?

[The Prime Minister]

I thank the right hon. Lady. I have spoken to the President of the European Parliament about my going over there and speaking with either the plenary or the Conference of Presidents of the European Parliament. I believe that our offices are negotiating on a date at the moment.

European Council

Ann Clwyd Excerpts

Monday 26th June 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I would very much like us to be able to do that by dealing with this at an early stage in the negotiations and by recognising that we all want to ensure that we give people reassurance and that they are no longer anxious about their future. I hope that the European Union will see the benefits of that and that we will be able to address this at an earlier stage than at the end of the negotiations.

[Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister needs to reassure Members of the European Parliament. I was in Brussels last week and heard petitioners from this country and others talk about their concerns. When I previously asked the Prime Minister whether she would address the European Parliament, she said that she was waiting for an invitation. She must know, however, that she does need an invitation; she can volunteer to address a plenary session of the European Parliament. Will she do that?

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend the Minister for Immigration will be meeting some MEPs later today to talk about the proposals we have put forward. I have been in discussions with President Tajani about the possibility of my going over to speak to the European Parliament, and we are looking at the basis and a timetable on which that should happen.

Article 50

Ann Clwyd Excerpts

Wednesday 29th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

As I said earlier, I know that there are Members on both sides of the House who have campaigned for this for a very long time. My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I think that what underlay the vote for people was that sense of the need for the United Kingdom to be able to have control of its budget, control of its laws and control of its immigration rules, and not simply be subject to decisions made in Brussels.

[Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

I am proud to have been a Member of the European Parliament—I was one of the first to be elected, in 1979, along with Boris’s father, who I do not think shares Boris’s views any longer. The Prime Minister has reflected today on the role of the European Parliament. I am sure she will agree that while it is one of three important institutions with which negotiations will take place, at the end of the day it has the power of veto, and that is a very important power. If the European Parliament were to invite her—as it does invite Heads of State and Prime Ministers—to appear before it, give her views and answer some questions, would she agree to do so?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Lady is right to say that the European Parliament will play an important role in the process. Obviously, the structure of the negotiations that has been established means that the key negotiator will be the European Commission, operating under the mandate of the European Council, but arrangements are made for interaction with the European Parliament as part of that as well. I know that Heads of Government are, from time to time, invited to address the European Parliament, and were I to receive such an invitation, I would of course consider it very seriously.

Chilcot Inquiry and Parliamentary Accountability

Ann Clwyd Excerpts

Wednesday 30th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Alex Salmond]

As the Chilcot report concluded, this was very much a personal campaign by the Prime Minister in doing things unbeknown to both Cabinet and certainly Parliament. I am going to address the point the right hon. and learned Gentleman makes, but the question of parliamentary accountability is in my estimation central to this case. Committees of this House have been examining the conduct of the processes of government. If he reads the minutes of the meeting that the Committee to which we intend to refer the question of parliamentary accountability held with the Cabinet Secretary, I do not think he will find much reassurance that there has been a tremendous advance in the process of government. The overwhelming impression is that a headstrong Prime Minister could still create a situation where sofa government drove a country into an illegal war. I suggest that parliamentary accountability and an examination of statements made to Parliament and public against the facts as we now know them would be a valuable additional sanction and tool in restraining future Prime Ministers from any such course of events.

[Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

I was here in 2003. I was a frequent visitor to Iraqi Kurdistan. The Kurds believed prior to 2003 that chemical weapons were going to be used against them again. The Iraqis were in the Gallery; it is a pity we are not having this debate in front of them, because they could point out their concern at the time, and their pressure for this country to help them in their action to overthrow Saddam Hussein. It was not simply an idea that Tony Blair had in his head; we had a full debate in this Parliament in 2003 and I, among others, voted for the action.

[Alex Salmond]

The right hon. Lady’s position on that issue has been consistent through the years, but that was not the case presented to this Parliament. The case presented to this Parliament was that there was a real and present danger to the United Kingdom that required the abandonment of diplomacy internationally and the immediate process to war.

Report of the Iraq Inquiry

Ann Clwyd Excerpts

Wednesday 6th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I remember well how effective my right hon. Friend was in holding those many debates. People say that we did not debate the post-war reconstruction of Iraq, but actually we debated it endlessly in the House, and a lot of questions were put and a lot of debates held. It is clear from the report that there was a total planning failure, an assumption that the Americans had a plan when they did not, and that the UN would move in comprehensively when it did not. According to Sir John, there was an assumption that British troops would be out in three to four months, which obviously did not happen. That is one of the clearest areas of criticism; it is the area of failure that should be accepted most clearly, and for which we should plan most carefully in any future conflict.

[Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

I thank the Prime Minister for summing up the main findings of the Chilcot report, although unlike him I have not had the opportunity to read even the summary. Does he agree that in 2003, when he, I, and many of our colleagues voted for the war, we did so on the basis of the knowledge that we had? Iraq was in breach of 17 UN resolutions in 2003. In 1988 Saddam Hussein had already killed half a million of his own people, and he went on to kill more and more, including the Shi’a and the Marsh Arabs in the south, and the Kurds in the north. In the mass graves at Al-Hillah lie 10,000 Iraqi bodies, many of them still undiscovered, and those of us who campaigned for human rights in Iraq over many years—I have done so for more than 30 years—were well aware of the torture and horrors that were happening in that country.

I wish people would ask Iraqis what they think of the invasion, because many Iraqis are grateful that we took the action that we did at that time. I hope that we have a greater opportunity to discuss those matters, because there was some planning—not enough, I agree—part of which I was involved in and can speak about. The horrors of Saddam Hussein and what he did to his own people in Halabja and elsewhere were clearly documented, and I think we were right to take part in that invasion.

[The Prime Minister]

I well remember that when I was on the Opposition Benches and the right hon. Lady was on the Government Benches, she made very powerful speeches about the appalling things that Saddam Hussein did to his own people and the practices in that country, which is a fair point. I also think that when the case was made, people were acting on the knowledge in front of them. It was not just about weapons of mass destruction; there was a sense that we were trying to uphold the position of the United Nations, and the massive danger that Saddam Hussein posed to the region and to his own people. However, those of us who voted for the war must be frank that the consequences of what followed have been truly very poor. That is what Sir John finds, in the section of his report in which he writes about the Government’s objectives not being met, and he states that far from dealing with the problem of regimes potentially linking up with terrorists, which Tony Blair talked about from this Dispatch Box, this action ended up creating a space for al-Qaeda. We must learn all those lessons, including the more painful ones.