Local Government Finance

Debate between Annette Brooke and Kevan Jones

Wednesday 8th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Annette Brooke (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (LD)]

I intend to be relatively brief, Mr Speaker.

We have to start by being clear that very tough cuts have been imposed on local government. It accounts for 25% of all public expenditure, so councils were always going to have to play a considerable role in fixing the black hole in the nation’s finances. It has been hard, given the front-loading of the cuts, but I wish to praise the many councils across the country that have approached innovatively the tasks with which they were faced. I sometimes think that central Government can learn from some local government practices, because councils are closer to the ground and have extra flexibility in how they approach things.

In my area, for example, two councils now share a chief executive, and there has been much more working together among councils, with the county council co-ordinating it. Poole’s unitary council is merging certain services with Bournemouth, which makes a lot of sense given that they are both relatively small unitary councils. A lot of action is taking place.

I am slightly frightened of getting absolute numbers and percentages mixed up, which is what has been happening all afternoon, but I point out that East Dorset council’s revenue support grant per head is £25.98, so there will not be a £200 cut. There cannot be. We therefore have to consider percentages. One might say that a more deprived area should not have the same percentage cuts as a less deprived one, but there is a difficulty with that. As we know, any organisation has certain basic costs that are the same. We need only look at schools, which need a certain number of staff whether they are big or small. That is an absolute fact.

[Mr Kevan Jones]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Annette Brooke]

I will not, because I want to make it clear that it is not correct to switch from numbers to percentages and to try to blur the picture. We know that the percentage cuts are large, averaging 3.3% but varying across the country. In fact, in my part of the country the percentages are towards the higher end.

One of the councils in my area, Dorset county council, is particularly concerned about the funding lost through the current formula damping. We can ask ourselves where that money goes, and we find that, probably quite rightly, it goes to more deprived areas. However, I am told that Dorset has lost a greater proportion of its grant entitlement through that formula—the Labour Government’s formula, I might add—than any authority in recent years. It will lose more than £7.4 million in 2012-13. There is great concern that the damping mechanism will become locked into the baseline for future years. I want to flag up that point as we move to a new system.

We must accept that the Government amended the funding formula to take greater account of councils’ need. Extra funding is available, for example to support adult social care, but I represent an area where the demand for social care is great in relation to resources. All Departments must give a great deal of thought to the funding of social care while we wait for the White Paper and for anything new to kick in, because here and now, councils across the country have enormous problems in ensuring that the most vulnerable people get enough support. That same situation applies throughout the country. There are pressures on that funding.

The new homes bonus is a plus, bringing in extra funding, and on balance, the council tax freeze for this year is a plus. I well remember being on the council under Labour, when the average increase in council tax in England was something like 10.4%, which enormously affected people who were just above the level of qualifying for any benefit. When I reflect back to that time, I recall that I was blamed as a councillor for that increase in council tax, which was because of Government funding. We come back to that point over and over.

In these difficult times, a council tax freeze is very good, but every council in the country is worried because of that one-off payment, as a number of hon. Members have pointed out. How do councils adapt to the situation in subsequent years? It would be wrong not to point out that that is a big concern.

A further concern that I have picked up from my local councils is that they feel they have coped with planning for the cuts that they have had to impose so far, but the uncertainty of next year gives them much less lead-in time for future planning. The Government must take on board the problems that councils face.

Like the Chairman of the Communities and Local Government Committee, I believe that ending ring-fencing is a good move. It is quite painful for local councils, but if we believe in localism, it must be the right thing. Moving towards the new system is right. We surely cannot defend the old system. Nobody understood the formula and it failed the test of time.

I hope that Communities and Local Government Ministers monitor the costs that are shunted on to local councils from other Departments. Examples include the 50% cut in community safety grant; the youth justice proposal that local authorities take youth offenders into care; and full recovery for court proceedings under the Children Act 2004. I could go on, but I shall conclude exactly on time.

Local Government Finance Bill

Debate between Annette Brooke and Kevan Jones

Tuesday 31st January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Annette Brooke]

At this point in time, it is easy to put such amendments forward, but one has to identify where the money is going to come from, and I shall touch on that in a moment, because there are two sides to the issue: first, what needs to be addressed, but, secondly, how we finance it. That is quite important.

Returning to the point I was making, I wish to emphasise that we all have constituents who come to us with a breakdown of their weekly expenditure, and we all know how little there is to spare in some of those budgets, so the possibility of losing £6 to £10 of benefit is truly frightening.

[Mr Kevan Jones]

The hon. Lady talks about constituents going to her surgery. When they start going in 2013, after their benefits have been reduced, will she tell them not just that she voted in support of the measure, but that it was brought in only because the Liberal Democrats supported the Secretary of State?

[Annette Brooke]

At this stage, we are debating, and I hope all trying to be constructive about, the direction in which we would like the Bill to go, and it is important to be constructive, rather than to look for an immediate political hit.

Returning to the point I was making—

--- Later in debate ---

[Annette Brooke]

The very point I was making is that there are variations throughout the whole country, so there needs to be some sort of stabilisation, contingency, transition—whatever we want to call it—because of the differences throughout the country and the possibility that the measure in the Bill will hit some very vulnerable people very hard. I make a plea to the Minister, even if he cannot give me the answers that I might want to hear today, to go away and look at all those issues, which have been raised on both sides of the House.

[Mr Kevan Jones]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Crausby.

What we have seen from the hon. Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Annette Brooke) is a classic Liberal Democrat tactic: sit on the fence, give an impression—obviously with a leaflet out this weekend—of how she opposes and spoke against the proposal, and then go along and vote with the Government. I remind her, however, that if she and her Liberal Democrat colleagues choose to vote against the Bill, this Government will not get it through. Although she raises articulately the issues that will affect her local council, she cannot get away from the fact that, when these draconian proposals come in and affect many councils, including her own, there will only be one person whom they have to blame, and that will be her for voting for them.

I hope that, come the general election, people reflect on that point, because this is not about the Conservatives doing nasty things to Dorset, but about the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats doing nasty things to local government, and the hon. Lady is taking part in it. I am sorry, but I am not prepared to see her shed crocodile tears for the proposals and then troop through the Division Lobby. If she believed in what she was saying, she would vote against the measures and stand up for local government, a sector that I understand she comes from herself.

It was said last week that what local government requires is stability, and it does, but this is another example—we had one last week with the localisation of the business rate—of massive instability being introduced to local government. My hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts) said that there was nothing wrong in principle with devolving council tax benefits to local councils, and I totally agree, but if it is brought in with a 10% cut, as the Bill proposes, and on the current time scale, it will have a massive effect on many local councils and individual recipients of council tax benefit.

Local Government Finance Bill

Debate between Annette Brooke and Kevan Jones

Tuesday 24th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Annette Brooke]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Amess. I wish to make a few brief comments.

It is important that a local government body of councils should have a position on all the decision making, be it on the tariffs, the top-up or the levy or in relation to resetting. I do not know how formal that arrangement needs to be, but it is important to recognise that the information needs to come from a cross-section of local councils. Of course, we already have the Local Government Association, which is in a position to take such an overall viewpoint.

We have had some useful discussions about the length of the set-up period. It is fairly clear that no one here knows what the ideal period would be. I feel instinctively that 10 years is rather too long, but I recognise that we need a period of stability in order to make other measures work and to create incentives. I therefore hope that the Minister will assure us that a great deal of work will be done on this before we get to the regulations. I have a preference for a period of about five years, but I would also like an assurance that the Minister would have the power to reset, having listened to the LGA and other bodies, should something obviously have gone dramatically wrong. We have heard a great deal about uncertainty and, yes, there is bound to be uncertainty involved in a change of this magnitude, but the main thing for me is that we ensure that there is a safety net in place for ourselves, as decision makers.

[Mr Kevan Jones]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Amess.

The hon. Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Annette Brooke) has just said that she hopes the Minister is listening. The ministerial team might well be listening but not actually taking notice. It has already been stated in the consultation with local government that the majority of councils came out against the 10-year reset time limit. I do not think that that bodes well for the future; I do not think that the leopard will suddenly change its spots, or that the Government will suddenly start to listen to local government.

I support the new clauses. The Bill will lock in for the next 10 years the inequality and unfairness that have become apparent this year. That unfairness will affect councils such as mine in Durham and other northern Labour-controlled councils. It is part of the Secretary of State’s plan to lock in that inequality of support that favours his friends in the south-east. I shall give the Committee some examples of how that inequality has already become apparent this year, and how it will become locked in under the new mechanism.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne) mentioned, the baseline figure in the 2010-11 spending round was the starting point. For example, County Durham’s budget for 2011-12 was reduced by £10.9 million. South Tyneside council’s budget was reduced by 5.6%—some £33.70 for each resident of that borough. Let us contrast that with Wokingham in Berkshire, whose budget was increased by 0.2%, meaning that each of its residents got an extra 30p.

Local Government Finance Bill

Debate between Annette Brooke and Kevan Jones

Wednesday 18th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

No, and that is possibly because they will have to explain to northern councils why they are supporting measures that will have a terrible effect on their budgets. They sidestep that issue and say that it is all because the matter is covered by the coalition agreement, and then we have the usual deathly silence from them. We need to remind all our constituents on every possible occasion that such draconian cuts could not be got through the House without the support of the Liberal Democrats.

[Annette Brooke (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (LD)]

Would the hon. Gentleman like to tell the House whether he agrees with the principle of local authorities retaining more of their business rates? That is what we are meant to be discussing, and I would very much like to hear his view.

[Mr Jones]

I think the hon. Lady represents Dorset, and there is a big difference between Dorset and parts of County Durham. Even though there are some very beautiful parts of County Durham, I am sure that Dorset’s economic activity shows it to be far more affluent than parts of County Durham. I support local decisions being taken at a local level, but I do not support a system in which her constituents in wealthier areas will gain at the expense of constituencies such as mine that need support for economic development.

What we heard last week on Second Reading from Government Members was absolutely disgraceful. Conservative Member after Conservative Member referred to local councillors not being interested in economic development. I have to say that I have never yet met one who does not want to increase the economic vibrancy of their area. They put a lot of effort into doing that, and such comments show again the prejudice of Government Members.

The changes to council tax benefit will be a nightmare for councils not just because of the localisation of the system but because of its top-slicing—