Children’s Wellbeing and Schools Bill

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Thursday 18th September 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Layard (Lab)]

My Lords, I am most grateful to everyone who spoke in this excellent debate. The noble Lord, Lord Macpherson, got us off to a good start on the economics, which is, of course, a central part of this—but economics can appear to look just at the whole economy rather than at the fates of individuals. Ultimately, of course, the economy is about the fates of individuals and especially the fates of these young people who are headed for lives of such poverty and also, in many cases, inactivity, at a cost then to the rest of us.

I am very grateful for what I think was the main theme, which came out of almost all the contributions—from the noble Lords, Lord Deben, Lord Storey, Lord Hampton and Lord Addington, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Barran, Lady Wolf and Lady Coffey. It is that we have taken our eye off the needs of these young people at the lower levels of skill. How do we get people to levels 2 and 3 as the top priority for the use of the levy money? What has been happening, as we know, is that the levy money has been increasingly diverted, I would say, to supporting older people—often existing employees—and to higher levels of qualification. That would be all right if it were not being diverted from the needs of young people, whom employers have increasingly been turning their backs on. That is what we have to reverse, and it requires a major policy decision by the Government and the setting up of a major administrative structure to reverse this whole trend. I think it is encouraging that the survey by the CIPD showed that employers are up for this if some leadership and support is given to make it come about.

We are worried that the levy is being diverted. We should revert to the principle that its main purpose is to get people up to levels 2 and 3—when it comes to levels 4 and above, there are many other potential sources of funding. There is obviously the student loan. It is not so obvious that essentially the taxpayer, through the levy, is funding higher-level education for people taking levels 4 and 5 or degree apprenticeships at level 6, when most of those studying at levels 4 to 6 are on student loans or alternative sources of funding. Obviously, if the employer wants to get a bright young person quickly, they can contribute to the cost. We must re-establish the idea that the central—the first—overriding claim on the levy is young people doing levels up to level 3.

I am very grateful to the Minister for what she said and for the sincerity of her concern about all this. We would very much like to meet and see how this can be carried forward and, in the light of that, for the moment I would like to withdraw the amendment.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

I thank the noble Lord, but we are debating Amendment 483A, so I need to ask the noble Baroness, Lady Barran, to withdraw that first.