Brexit: European Travel Information and Authorisation System

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Wednesday 17th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

No, my Lords, it is not. The noble Baroness is making a whole series of assumptions in her question, none of which may turn out to be true. We are still to have the discussions with the EU on the future relationship in terms of how people will travel backwards and forwards. When we have had those discussions and reached a conclusion, we will be sure to let her know.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, yesterday we had a debate in this House about the question of deal or no deal—indeed, the Minister was here late last night to answer it—and the majority of speakers from the government Benches indicated that they were quite content with the no-deal option, which would mean abruptly crashing out from all EU arrangements and procedures at the end of March next year. Will the Minister confirm that Ministers really would jeopardise British citizens’ rights to travel on holiday visa free, and to work in the EU, as the price of their failure to agree terms with the EU?

[Lord Callanan]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question, but I am slightly surprised that she is coming back to this subject, as we spent about four hours debating it last night. Perhaps it would be helpful to read Hansard. No, we have been very clear that no deal is not an outcome that we want or expect. We are working to get a deal but, as a responsible Government, we have to be prepared for any eventuality. We discussed these issues in great detail last night.

Brexit: Deal or No Deal (European Union Committee Report)

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Tuesday 16th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, I too thank my noble friend Lord Whitty for introducing today’s debate. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Jay, and his committee for their choice of subject and for what I consider is the high quality of the report. I am sorry about the attacks made on it; I think that most were a cover for not liking its conclusions, although I exempt the noble Lord, Lord Bew, from that. I also thank the noble Lord, Lord Jay, for getting this debate today; it is particularly timely as it is of course on the very eve of the first anniversary of the Lancaster House speech when, regrettably, the Prime Minister gave legs to this rather vacuous “No deal is better than a bad deal” nonsense. But I also hope that this debate is in time to influence the Government’s thinking, particularly along the lines of the report’s advice, which is, basically, “Get real”. Both the report and the debate have laid bare the absence of any rationale for suggesting no deal and, of course, its failure to scare the other side to offer us lots of goodies, given that they view it as mere bluster. I will emphasise four points.

First, there is the near unanimity of advice that no deal has no merit. As paragraph 18 notes:

“Very few witnesses identified any positives arising as a result of ‘no deal’”,


while a former Chancellor of the Exchequer struggled to find any country of any significance that traded purely on WTO terms—the no-deal option—which the CBI judged would mean that 90% of our manufacturing exports by value would face tariffs. Yet as my noble friend Lord Whitty has warned, the very repetition of the no-deal rhetoric risks becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. Indeed, rather oddly, as has been mentioned, even as Ministers insist it is an option and continue to prepare for it, as they say,

“any responsible government would do”,

they are then utterly surprised when the EU 27 do just that, with David Davis even having the effrontery in a letter to the Prime Minister to attack their “damaging” no-deal planning, even, we understand, consulting lawyers—presumably at taxpayers’ expense—over the EU’s preparations for no deal. It is unclear why David Davis should spend £3 billion preparing for no deal but get so het up when Michel Barnier does exactly the same. As the Commission spokesman responded:

“We are surprised that the UK is surprised that we are preparing for a scenario announced by the UK government itself”.


So of course the Commission should prepare. As it makes clear, if no deal is agreed by this October, the status quo would come to an abrupt halt next March. However, as the noble Lords, Lord Gadhia and Lord Taylor of Warwick, said, this is not a game show. Should we leave the stage, there would be dire consequences for our country.

Secondly, it is difficult to believe that the Government really believe that no deal could ever be satisfactory, given that it would mean: no security for United Kingdom citizens living in the EU; probably a hard border in Ireland; immediate imposition of tariffs, customs checks and possibly travel visas; no flights to continental Europe; nuclear materials stacked at the border; no judicial co-operation or European arrest warrants, as the noble Lord, Lord Blair, mentioned; no new trade agreement with any other country, because they would not be in place by then, and the loss of all 57 existing trading relations with third countries; 17-mile tailbacks at Dover, without having even an IT system in place; a devastating impact on our farming and food safety, and food prices possibly going up by 20%; a rift in the all-Ireland energy electricity market, posing threats to Northern Ireland’s lights; the financial sector in jeopardy, particularly on investment contracts, as we have heard; and, according to the impact assessment commissioned by the Mayor of London, which was rather more thorough than that done by Her Majesty’s Government, some half a million jobs under threat, and effectively a “lost decade” of lower employment and economic growth, with perhaps £50 billion of investment lost. And of course it would mean no transition agreement, despite the proposal for an implementation period by the Chancellor and the Secretary of State for Brexit in the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, although of course that is not possible without a deal.

Thirdly, the Whitehall farce returned last week as the anticipated new “no-deal Brexit Minister” failed to appear and was replaced by a new Minister who supports no deal. Indeed, she does not even want a transition, despite the fervent pleas from industry. So “No, No, Nanette” becomes “Yes, no; well, maybe. We’ll tell the EU 27 that we want a deal but we’ll appoint a Minister who doesn’t”. If it were not so serious, it would actually be quite funny.

Fourthly, and crucially for this House as we prepare for the withdrawal Bill—it will soon end its passage through the other House—any decision to slam the door behind us, after 46 years, with no agreement on our temporary or future relationship is a big national decision. It is not a decision to be taken solely by Ministers; it is one to be taken by Parliament on behalf of the nation. Therefore, we will seek to amend the withdrawal Bill to ensure that any decision to have no deal resides with Parliament and not with Downing Street.

As the report says, failure to reach agreement is not a continuation of the status quo. No deal would mean the abrupt cessation of nearly half a century of economic, political and legal partnership. The elegant wording of the noble Lord, Lord Jay, repeated today by my noble friend Lord Whitty, and by the noble Lords, Lord Gadhia and Lord Wallace, concludes:

“It is difficult, if not impossible, to envisage a worse outcome for the United Kingdom”.

[Lord True]

I mentioned the position of the Labour Party. A lot has been said in this debate about not knowing where people stand. The noble Baroness is here as a spokesman for her party. Is it the policy of the Labour Party that the UK should come out of the single market and the customs union? It would be helpful for us to know before next week—tonight, please.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

My Lords, your Lordships can absolutely know tonight. We have been very clear.

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

You do not hear what you do not want to hear. We would not go into the negotiations with red lines already closing off what we wanted to discuss with the opposite side. A number of noble Lords have said today that they are experienced negotiators. I have done a bit myself, starting in the trade unions. I have never gone into negotiations saying what I would and would not accept before I even started. The Labour Party has said absolutely clearly that we would not have taken anything off the table before we had even sat on the chairs.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

How is that consistent with the leader of the Labour Party, Mr Jeremy Corbyn, saying that he is not in favour of our remaining in the single market?

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

As the noble Lord knows, those were not actually his words. The leader—I did not need to know his name; interestingly, I remember it—said that he could see some difficulties in being in when and if we were no longer a member of that treaty. He did not say, and nor has he said, what the outcome of the negotiations should be. Importantly —it was a challenge, I think, made to me earlier by my noble friend—it was asked whether the Labour Party can rise to the national interest. If anyone would like us to take over the negotiations and do a better job than is being done at the moment, we will be very willing to do that.

For the moment, I leave your Lordships with these words:

“It is difficult, if not impossible, to envisage a worse outcome for the United Kingdom”.


I hope that the Minister will now reassure us that that is neither the aim nor even a fallback and that every bit of work will be done to make sure that there is a deal in the interests of the whole country.

[The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful, as ever, for the opportunity to respond to the debate on the Select Committee’s report, Brexit: Deal or No Deal. We have heard a series of excellent contributions—some I agreed with and some I did not, but, nevertheless, virtually all of them have shown your Lordships’ House at its best. It has been an extremely good debate, even if all the positions outlined came as no surprise; nobody has changed their views, but it was interesting to hear the different opinions. I will refer to a number of the excellent speeches as I go on.

We have discovered a series of surprising facts, including that the noble Baroness, Lady Falkner, and my noble friend Lord True both enjoy Italian holidays. A vision went through my mind’s eye of the pair of them sitting on a lovely Tuscan terrace sharing a bottle of prosecco and exploring these issues, but I think it would probably take more than one bottle before they agreed with each other.

I thank the European Union Committee, chaired by the noble Lord, Lord Boswell, for producing this thoughtful analysis. I am pleased to hear that the noble Lord has now returned to his duties in the House. I pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, for stepping in for the noble Lord, Lord Jay. Incidentally, it occurs to me that being the chairman of your Lordships’ European Union Committee is a bit of a hazardous occupation: first, the noble Lord, Lord Boswell, is incapacitated, and then the noble Lord, Lord Jay, is incapacitated. I hope that nobody else suffers any unfortunate accidents during their time in this obviously dangerous position. Nevertheless, the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, stepped in very ably to introduce our debate this evening.

I can inform noble Lords that a formal response to the committee’s report is being prepared and is expected to be issued within the usual two-month response time. My department is working with officials from all departments and undertaking a wide range of work to support the negotiations. We recognise the need for businesses to prepare contingency plans, and we continue to engage with companies across sectors and regions to understand the challenges and opportunities that they may face. In November’s Budget, the Chancellor committed to ensure that departments and the devolved Administrations continue to have the resources necessary to prepare effectively for a range of exit scenarios, including that of no deal. Her Majesty’s Treasury has already given departments nearly £700 million to prepare for Brexit, and is making an additional £3 billion of funding available over the next two years.

Many of the points raised by the report relate directly to the second phase of negotiations, and, as such, I hope noble Lords will understand that I will not be able to go into great detail on some of those areas at this stage. However, as more of our contingency planning becomes public, this should not be interpreted as an expectation that talks with the EU will be unsuccessful but recognised instead as the actions of a responsible Government determined to ensure a smooth exit under any eventuality. A deep and special partnership, taking in both economic and security co-operation between the UK and the EU, is of such mutual importance—as my noble friend Lord Hamilton pointed out—that I am confident it can be agreed.

The noble Lord, Lord Whitty, and other noble Lords asked whether agreements to date will stand, what has been agreed in negotiations to date and whether we are still committed to the policy that “Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed”—that famous phrase. Of course both we and—let me emphasise this—the EU have been very clear from the outset that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. However, we are clear that we want to honour the agreements that have been reached so far in the joint report, and we are proceeding with confidence that we can and will do so.

The noble Lord, Lord Whitty, and other noble Lords asked about the impact of no deal. The committee’s report and our debate this evening have focused predominantly on that scenario. Let me make it absolutely clear, as the Secretary of State did in front of the committee on 31 October, that this Government do not want or expect a no-deal outcome from these negotiations. We continue to seek a deep and special partnership with our European friends and allies as we leave the EU, and we approach the negotiations anticipating success.

In light of our successful phase 1 agreement, I am confident that the prospect of leaving negotiations with no deal has reduced significantly, as a number of noble Lords pointed out. While this progress is encouraging, the Government continue to act responsibly by preparing for a range of outcomes, including the unlikely scenario in which no mutually satisfactory agreement can be reached. Every government department continues to work to ensure a smooth exit from the EU in all eventualities.

Noble Lords have this evening expressed concern that the act of preparing for a no-deal outcome with the EU could act as a self-fulfilling prophecy, increasing the likelihood of this outcome. I do not agree that this is the case. The Government’s contingency planning should not be interpreted as an expectation that talks with the EU will be unsuccessful, but recognised instead, as I said, as the actions of a responsible Government determined to ensure a smooth exit in every eventuality.

Noble Lords have spoken about potential no-deal scenarios. As we enter the next phase of talks, we do so optimistically and fully committed to the Article 50 process. Through the process we have already reached agreement on a number of the critical separation issues, including citizens’ rights, judicial and administrative co-operation and the Ireland-Northern Ireland border. We have consistently called for flexibility, imagination and a willingness to make progress in every stage of the talks.

As I have noted, we are planning for a range of exit outcomes but our focus is concentrated on achieving an ambitious and positive deal. Such a deal is of mutual importance and beneficial to both parties in negotiations. We are therefore confident that such a deal will be agreed.

The noble Lord, Lord Whitty, asked about implementation periods, as did my noble friend Lord True in his excellent contribution—I particularly enjoyed the “fat yellow line” argument. Noble Lords have spoken about the implementation period aspect of the UK’s exit from the EU, which was also considered in the committee’s report. As part of a deal on the UK’s future relationship with the EU, both parties agree that a strictly time-limited period would be mutually beneficial. Such an implementation period has been clearly set out by the Prime Minister in her Lancaster House and Florence speeches. It forms a key part of a smooth and orderly exit from the EU. An implementation period prevents businesses and Governments in the UK and Europe having to make decisions before they know the shape of our future partnership. It also provides individuals and citizens on both sides with time to adapt to the new relationship between the UK and the EU. We have been clear that during the implementation period access to one another’s markets should continue on current terms.

My noble friend Lord True also said that the implementation period must be for implementation. Other noble Lords spoke about the timing and purpose of an implementation period; I agree that it must be time limited and used for implementation.

The Prime Minister has indicated that the duration should be determined by how long it will take to prepare and implement the new processes and systems that will underpin the future partnership. There is broad consensus between us and the EU on the duration of such an implementation period. Our current assessment points to a period of around two years, and the EU has suggested that it could be slightly shorter. Both the guidelines published by the Council and comments made by President Tusk point to the shared desire of the EU and the UK to make rapid progress on an implementation period, with formal talks beginning very soon. I can confirm for the benefit of the noble Baroness, Lady Falkner, that the Prime Minister has said that we want to reach an agreement on the implementation period by March. This will help to give certainty to employers and families as we work to deliver a smooth Brexit.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

Could the Minister please clarify one thing? If agreement is to be reached by March, the idea of an implementation period is that you are implementing something. I still have not quite understood—maybe the Minister can help the House—what we could decide by March of this year that could be implemented from March of next year. Is he saying that the whole of our final agreement could be agreed by this March so that we will be implementing that?

[Lord Callanan]

No. As the noble Baroness understands very well, we can agree the principle of the period of implementation by March and we will then go on to the further agreements on the various issues that we have set out.

The noble Lords, Lord Whitty, Lord Butler and Lord Kerr, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Falkner and Lady Ludford, all asked about the legal basis of the implementation period and raised questions over that legal basis. Such an implementation period would be agreed under the Article 50 process, and would be enshrined in the withdrawal agreement, and implemented in this House under the withdrawal agreement and implementation Bill. The EU has been clear on this in its Article 50 guidelines and draft negotiating directive, and the UK Government agree with this approach. The desired implementation period will allow a period of smooth transition to the terms of a new relationship.

The report claims that the implementation period could be used as a mechanism to extend the negotiation period beyond March 2019. The noble Baroness, Lady Falkner, also suggested a method to extend the negotiation period using Article 50. On 29 March 2017, the Prime Minister notified the EU—

Brexit: Reports to Parliament

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Monday 8th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

It is important to bear in mind any possible outcome. We plan for all eventualities, but of course we are planning for a full and special partnership and we hope that will be the outcome.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, discussions are meant to be taking place within the UK as well as with the EU 27. Indeed, the Government promised back in March that there would be “intensive discussions” with the devolved Administrations, but at the moment we know that they are not minded to pass the consent Motions on the withdrawal Bill. Can the Minister undertake to update the House on those discussions before we get to the withdrawal Bill, when, obviously, we will want to know whether consent is likely to be given or withheld?

[Lord Callanan]

As the noble Baroness correctly observed, we have regular discussions with the devolved Administrations; I myself chaired a meeting with the devolved Ministers from Scotland and Wales and officials from the Northern Ireland Office in December, when we discussed ongoing EU business. Separate discussions take place with them on the withdrawal Bill and its implications. Those discussions are detailed, and I am sure that we will want to update the House as soon as we have a conclusion.

Brexit: Equalities Impact Assessment

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Thursday 21st December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

My noble friend makes a very important point, and we keep these matters under constant review. Some of the statements and issues that have arisen recently through social media are of great concern, and other members of the Government are taking forward policies in this area.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that the groups that have already been mentioned fear that they will be less protected without the European Charter of Fundamental Rights, which this Government are removing? They are not reassured by the bundle of extracts produced by the Government—this issue appears in umpteen different bits of legislation—and they cannot see why a charter setting out their rights should not be included in the withdrawal Bill. What sort of comfort can the Minister offer them?

[Lord Callanan]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question but they need have no fears. The European Charter of Fundamental Rights merely codifies existing rights; it does not provide any new rights. We have set out a detailed analysis of the rights and how they will be protected in UK law. As I said, we go much further than EU law requires us to do in a whole range of areas, including equalities protection.

Brexit: Revocability

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Wednesday 20th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I was particularly fond of his “Spitting Image” puppet at the time, and I am delighted to see that he has lost none of his robustness.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

The noble Lord, Lord Tebbit, talks about this being a waste of time. This morning, the new negotiating mandate came out from the European Union and it talked about a much shorter transition period than I think the Government have been thinking about. Perhaps we could ask the Minister to make sure that the negotiations take place with a little more speed than they have been doing so that we are fit to end the transition period at the end of December 2020.

[Lord Callanan]

Of course, we are very keen to get on with the negotiations as quickly as possible. As I understand it, the European Commission this morning proposed an implementation period of around 21 months. The Government have stated that we would prefer a period of around 24 months, so it seems to me that the positions are not too far apart, and we shall have some interesting negotiations on the subject.

Brexit: Trade in Non-financial Services (EUC Report)

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Monday 18th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

I, too, thank my noble friend Lord Whitty and his colleagues for their excellent report, for his introduction and for getting this debate immediately following the EU’s decision that trade talks can now start. Like others, I pay tribute to the sector for its 4 million jobs, its £6 billion trade surplus with the EU, and its contribution to our economy, to many other industries and to the way that much of the world does business.

As we have heard, our economy depends on services, which are likely to comprise the majority of our exports by 2021. Those will mostly be non-financial ones such as information technology, telecoms, broadcasting, fashion—I am pleased to say—tourism, education, accountancy and law. Despite that, there is no response to the report. This is somewhat surprising given the Minister’s assertion in a Written Answer to me that the Government,

“are fully focused on making the UK’s exit from the EU, and our new trading relationship with the world, a success”,

by minimising,

“the regulatory barriers for … services between the UK and the EU”.

It is hard to think how the Government could achieve this, given the paucity of data and despite their claim to have been undertaking vigorous and extensive analysis to inform our understanding of how EU exit will affect the UK.

The truth is that those so-called sectoral analyses are neither evidence-based nor forward-looking, as my noble friend Lord Berkeley also found on his trip down to Parliament Street. I saw the one on postal services. I will not disclose what it says but I can tell the House that it had far less in it than what Royal Mail had already told me. As with many of the other reports, the interests of consumers in this sector were ignored. There appear to have been no meetings with consumer bodies, while on legal services the department met only the trade bodies and not the regulators that protect the public and consumer interests.

So the Government are aiming for new trade deals with no thought about the wider public or consumer interest and with scant attention to evidence. Indeed, when I heard that Mr Trump had banned the American public health agency from using various words including “evidence-based”, I wondered whether he was referring to our Government, whose whole approach is in stark contrast to that of the EU, where a 30-page European Parliament paper details the effect of Brexit on services. As my noble friend Lady Donaghy said, good data is vital if we want to know where we are going.

We now face a momentous decision about what sort of trading nation—indeed, what sort of society—we want after March 2019. Is it to be some freewheeling, buccaneering economy rewarding the richest and the devil take the hindmost, free of consumer, environmental, safety and worker protection? Some seem to think so. The Sun reported:

“Ministers want to scrap EU laws which limit the working week to 48 hours”,


and might even put at risk the paid holidays we all enjoy.

Following Mr Rees-Mogg’s call for regulatory divergence to be a red line, the Foreign Secretary now envisages a deal giving Britain the power to ditch EU laws—code for lower standards. It is unclear whether Mr Johnson recognises that, in order to trade with the US, we would have to abide by its rules, as the noble Lord, Lord Green, indicated, over which we would have no say—a true vassal state—or whether he is simply seeking to undermine the Prime Minister.

Do we want that deregulated economy or do we want a consensual, profit-sharing, more equitable nation, preserving the environment, ensuring protection for consumers and treating workers with respect? The EU 27 fear that it might be the former, with lower standards ending a level playing field. Apart from their suspicion that that is our vision, there is distrust of the Brexit Secretary. He was even named in a resolution in which the European Parliament, which has to endorse the withdrawal deal, noted that,

“comments ... like those by David Davis calling the outcome of phase one of the negotiations a mere ‘statement of intent’, risk to undermine the good faith that has been built during the negotiations”.

That is a serious criticism of our main negotiator.

Aside from the report before us today, there appears to be no analysis of the mechanism, let alone the cost, of leaving the internal market, despite the warnings from the sector of failure to protect its interests. Most urgently, the sector calls for a rapid agreement on transition on the same terms as now. We on this side are clear that the priority must be a transition within the single market and a customs union, abiding by the common rules of both. This is what industry wants and our economy needs while we negotiate a longer-term relationship. It is also what the EU expects. Its guidelines for moving forward focus on the transition period with the UK in the single market and customs union, maintaining the four freedoms and the jurisdiction of the ECJ. The sooner the Government accept that the better, and the happier our importers and exporters will be. And the sooner the Government accept that an ambitious trade policy and regulatory divergence are mutually incompatible, the easier it will be for them to start serious talks.

I turn to some specific sectors. The UK, as we know, is the largest legal services market in Europe. The market is worth £30 billion and employs more than a third of a million people. The Law Society and Bar Council have spelled out their worries about Brexit, while the Legal Services Consumer Panel, on behalf of clients, has raised the problem that, with no agreement, consumers would not be able to be represented by UK lawyers in EU courts and could lose the protection of confidentiality with their lawyers. Furthermore, civil, family and commercial judgments are currently enforced throughout the EU, allowing consumers to sue or defend themselves in their home courts. With family disputes, the mutual recognition of divorce, maintenance and adoption orders is vital in protecting children and family rights. So a rapid settlement is needed—or else, from April 2019, a child might be taken out of this country with existing court orders suddenly failing to be recognised elsewhere. For these reasons, and that of mutual recognition of lawyers’ qualifications, audience and practice rights, a no-deal scenario would be a major setback for legal services and for their clients.

A particular issue arises with insolvency. At the moment, the regime gives confidence to investors about their ability to recoup money, through the mutual recognition of appointments, so that liquidators can rapidly freeze or capture assets across the EU which are due to creditors here or in another EU country.

Then there are the creative industries. We heard about a much broader approach from the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Leeds. I will not go through what he said or tackle that issue, but I welcome and endorse the importance of what he said. As we heard from the noble Lords, Lord Aberdare and Lord German, the music industry generated export revenues of £2.5 billion in 2016. In that industry, tours are vital for building fan bases and revenue. Loss of freedom of movement would be hugely detrimental to this sector. The Government must recognise the specific needs of musicians and seek an early answer to the threat of visas being required for EU performances, and must ensure that the EU’s high-level protection for copyright works is maintained post Brexit.

Architecture and its 80,000 people contribute £5 billion a year to the economy and £500 million-worth of exports. A bad Brexit could cut EU exports by a third. The industry relies on international talent, mutual recognition of qualifications and non-tariff barriers. What comfort can the Minister offer it?

The Government do not appear to have the faintest idea of what they want for the service sector. David Davis told Andrew Marr that he wanted a Canada-plus-plus-plus—CETA hardly touches on services—but then he also said that he would not be negotiating sectoral deals. It is hard to know what he means. Furthermore, given that many sectors are dependent on EU agencies, as we have heard, run by boards comprising only EU members, what are the Government trying to achieve regarding UK participation post Brexit?

The service sector depends on the EU regulatory framework, particularly mutual recognition of qualifications and intellectual property, and the free flow of data. Will the Government commit to retaining regulatory alignment and ensure mutual recognition of professional qualifications, which is so crucial to our architects, lawyers, engineers and accountants? These sectors, as we have heard, are highly dependent on talent and the freedom to recruit skilled practitioners. How do the Government propose to safeguard these?

In addition to the new EU Committee’s report, Deal or No Deal, my noble friend Lord Whitty’s report has warned of the crippling impact no deal could have on services. What is the Government’s assessment of the impact on services of no deal, which would restrict the movement of people and forbid trade with the EU on a preferential basis? Finally, will the Government undertake to refuse any agreement whereby Gibraltar’s inclusion in the transitional arrangements is subject to a veto by Spain? Indeed, will the Minister acknowledge the key role that services play in the economy of Gibraltar and undertake to uphold any regime that protects them?

It is shameful that the Government have not responded to the report. As my noble friend Lord Liddle noted, the Government have given least thought to this sector in even contemplating the way in which they want to move forward. So I hope that the Minister will now spell out the future that the Government envisage for our vital service sector post Brexit, suggest to his colleagues that we need a White Paper on their approach and commit the Government to do whatever it takes, even if unacceptable to Mr Rees-Mogg and Boris Johnson, to safeguard the future of these industries.

Brexit: EU Citizenship

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Monday 11th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

As the noble Baroness is aware, special arrangements have always applied between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, given the troubled history of that island. I repeat that we are not ruling out the idea—but she will know, as well as I do, how difficult it would be to achieve consensus in the 27 to change the treaties to enable that to happen. It would set a precedent that citizens from non-EU member states can have EU citizenship, with its rights and obligations. I am sure she will agree that it is difficult to see how that would come about.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, on Thursday the noble Lord, Lord Ashton of Hyde, said in regard to the likely problems of our youth orchestras in travelling to the EU after March 2019:

“Much more important is the visa requirements that will be needed after Brexit”.—[Official Report, 7/12/17; col. 1156.]


Can the Minister update the House on such anticipated problems, of youth and amateur orchestras needing visas to go to the EU after Brexit, and outline the steps being taken to mitigate this problem?

[Lord Callanan]

These are of course matters that will be discussed in the next phase of the negotiation. As I said in response to an earlier question, the noble Baroness will have to wait for the proposals for a new immigration system that the Home Office will announce in due course.

Brexit Negotiations

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Tuesday 5th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, all that without a blush. I thank the Minister for repeating a somewhat embarrassing response, given yesterday’s climbdown. Indeed, it seems that the only negotiations taking place are between the Government and the DUP, or within the Government, which is part of the Prime Minister’s failure in the election campaign.

Yesterday unravelled over regulatory alignment. However, just as Scotland, Wales and London are saying, “If such a deal is good enough for Ireland, it is good enough for us”, so also if there is to be regulatory alignment with the EU, which we support, surely it must be UK-wide. Can the Minister ask the Prime Minister to rethink her hasty decision to rule out remaining in the customs union regardless of cost, border controls and checks—and indeed, Northern Ireland?

[Lord Callanan]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question, but I am slightly perplexed by the attitude of the Opposition Front Bench in another place. John McDonnell has said:

“I think people will interpret membership of the single market as not respecting that referendum”.


Barry Gardiner, the Shadow International Trade Secretary, has said that a permanent customs union is “deeply unattractive”:

“As a transitional phase, a customs unions agreement might be thought to have some merit. However, as an end point it is deeply unattractive”.


He has also argued that remaining in the customs union would be a “disaster”. Perhaps the noble Baroness should talk to her colleagues before she criticises us.

Brexit: Release of Impact Assessments

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Tuesday 28th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for reading out that Statement. Has the Minister read the 58 reports? Assuming he has, does the evidence within these analyses show that leaving the customs union will benefit our economy?

[Lord Callanan]

I have not read all the reports, although I have read very many of them. These documents are constantly being updated and collated. New information is coming to light and new facts are emerging, all of which inform our negotiating position. The Government have been very clear that we are leaving the customs union and the single market. I believe that this will be firmly in the country’s best interests.

Brexit: Data Transfer

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Thursday 16th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

Unsurprisingly, the noble Lord will find that in fact I do not agree with him. He should not necessarily believe everything he reads in the press and the media—particularly those bits for which he is responsible.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

I am sorry to do this, but I had hoped that the Minister was going to make a statement. The last time he was at the Dispatch Box he will recall that I rose to correct something that he had said. I am loath to do this in front of the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, who knows this better than me. The Minister was requested by the noble Viscount, Lord Ridley, to,

“confirm that the judgment of the Supreme Court in the case brought by Gina Miller confirms in precise terms that Article 50 is irreversible”.—[Official Report, 13/11/17; col. 1845.]

The Minister said, “I can confirm that”—but it is clearly not the case. Paragraph 26 of the judgment makes it clear that, although the Government asserted as a matter of law and not just of policy that it was irreversible, the Supreme Court judges ruled that they took no view on that. They did not express a view at that point on the legal assertion that the Government made. Will the Minister take this opportunity to clarify from the Dispatch Box the position that, when the Government made the legal claim that it was irrevocable, it was not what the Supreme Court found—it made no view on it?

[Lord Callanan]

My Lords, I am happy to confirm that, as a matter of firm policy, our notification of Article 50 will not be withdrawn. This was the position the Government put forward—