House of Lords: Reform

Baroness Noakes Excerpts

Tuesday 21st June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Noakes]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Lee of Trafford, with whom I completely agree. I hope that the noble Lord will ensure that his leader, the Deputy Prime Minister, takes proper note of our debate, because Mr Clegg has shown no sign yet of acknowledging that there are valid views on the House of Lords other than his own. He needs to understand that there are strong arguments as well as strong feelings in this House. He must also understand—and he has shown no sign of this yet—that it is the public interest of avoiding constitutional vandalism that drives the opinions of this House, rather than self-interest.

Let me be very clear. I favour reform of your Lordships' House. I stand four-square behind the Bill championed by the noble Lord, Lord Steel, and therefore completely support the Motion in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Boothroyd. I am sure that the opinion of the House will be perfectly clear over this two-day debate, but if the noble Baroness chooses to test the opinion of the House, I shall enthusiastically support her.

I shall focus my remarks on the role of democracy and take as my text the third paragraph of the foreword to the White Paper. It reads:

“In a modern democracy it is important that those who make the laws of the land should be elected by those to whom those laws apply. The House of Lords performs its work well but lacks sufficient democratic authority”.

If we disregard the rather foolish adjective “modern”, the first sentence is unobjectionable, but there is nothing in the sentence that would lead to the logical conclusion that both Houses of Parliament need to be elected. As others have pointed out, the balance of powers between the two Houses is predicated on the primacy of the other place, and its authority is protected by the Parliament Acts. It is hugely important that the other place is democratically elected—which it is—but I have not discerned, not least from the White Paper, what the argument is for election being a necessary qualification for a secondary Chamber.

The second sentence of the passage I quoted starts with a grudging admission that we do our job well, but it then veers off at a tangent by saying that we lack “sufficient democratic authority”. I look forward to hearing whether my Front Bench can explain which of our functions require democratic authority and why. Our job is scrutiny. Why does a revising Chamber need democratic authority? I might understand the need for democratic authority if the Government were proposing to give more powers to the new House, but I am puzzled by how a House with substantially the same powers, as is the intention, is deficient in the absence of elected Members.

In the other place, the Deputy Prime Minister tried to justify his ideas on the basis of what he called a “basic principle”, which is that,

“people should be able to hold to account those who make the laws of the land”.—[Official Report, Commons, 15/5/11; col. 160.]

I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Sewel, that a single, 15-year, non-renewable term, elected on a list system with no power of recall does not amount to anything which could resemble holding to account. Can my Front Bench explain how this holding to account will work? Electors can hold parties to account by not voting for their candidates, but how exactly will they hold elected upper House Members to account?

Where is the evidence that the general public think that there is a democratic deficit which undermines the work of your Lordships’ House? I have to say that I found the attitude of the noble Lord, Lord Ashdown, to the relevance of public opinion quite breathtaking. Of course the opinion of the public is important. Has any noble Lord ever had a complaint about the lack of elections to this House when they have been out and about campaigning on the doorsteps? Of course not—it is not a subject that the public are interested in. Indeed, if the topic of your Lordships’ House ever arises, I hear only praise. I have heard the gratitude of rural communities, who comment that only the House of Lords stood up for the continuation of their way of life against the elected House when the Hunting Act was forced on to the statute book. Many know that it is this House, without the aid of democratic elections, which protected civil liberties against an overenthusiastic Executive in recent years. The democratic case is simply not made.

I could have talked this evening about powers, about the impact of politicising the upper Chamber and about the wasteful additional costs that will arise from this Bill if it is ever enacted. I shall not do that today but, if the Bill ever appears before your Lordships’ House, I promise my Front Bench that I shall speak on all these topics and at length.

My noble friend Lord Strathclyde ended his speech by saying that it was time to take the next step forward. I have just one bit of advice for him—the next step should be in the direction of the long grass.