Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Steve Barclay

Thursday 14th March 2024 Commons Chamber

[Steve Barclay]

My hon. Friend knows from our regular conversations just how engaged I am on this subject. He met with the Minister for Water and Rural Growth yesterday. As he knows, there is a consultation about medical exemptions for boats under 10 metres. I know the Minister for Food, Farming and Fisheries is looking closely at the issues around pollack. I am happy to update my hon. Friend on a series of other initiatives as we work through them.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

Has the Secretary of State actually talked to the National Farmers Union recently? Has he even talked to the celebrity farmer on television who we all know about? What is the plan? Farmers are in a period of stasis. They do not know where they are going or how they are going to face the future, because there is no plan under this incompetent Administration.

[Steve Barclay]

Not only have I spoken to the new president of the NFU—he has been in my office already—but I have been on his farm to discuss these matters. I have also been his deputy’s farm. In fact, on being appointed Secretary of State, the first meeting I had was with the former NFU president and the first meeting in my office, within a week, was with the then president of the NFU, so I regularly engage with colleagues in the NFU. Just this week I had a meeting with the NFU county president for Cambridgeshire. However, I am surpassed in that engagement by the Minister for Food, Farming and Fisheries, who has discussions with the NFU even more frequently.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Steve Barclay

Thursday 1st February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Steve Barclay]

I know my hon. Friend champions very strongly the farming and food sector in his constituency, and that he has raised this issue with my right hon. Friend the Minister for Food, Farming and Fisheries, who is actively engaged on it. Of course, a proportionate approach should always be taken on these issues.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

2. Whether his Department is taking steps to help ensure profits in the food sector are fairly distributed.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Steve Barclay

Thursday 24th February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Steve Barclay]

I could not agree more. The hon. Gentleman is right to champion diversity, which is at the heart of the Places for Growth programme. If we want a meritocracy, we need diversity as a part of that, recognising, as the Prime Minister has frequently said, that talent is equally distributed but opportunity often is not. People should be able to fulfil their careers closer to home. Moving senior-level jobs—for example, with the Treasury in Darlington—is a key part of enabling people from all backgrounds to access the very best jobs in our civil service.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

I associate myself with the remarks made earlier. This is a dark day for democracy. As someone who has been in this House for a very long time and who was born during the Blitz, I know that dictators are never deterred by sanctions; they are deterred by firm action.

Huddersfield is a booming university town. It is the perfect place for people to come and live, with beautiful countryside. We are also a real centre for technology and innovation. We would love anything to do with green skills, green enterprise and green start-ups based in our university town.

[Steve Barclay]

First, I thank the hon. Gentleman. Through his experience in the House, he brings great context to the issues we face.

On Huddersfield, I very much agree. One of the issues is how we combine the Places for Growth programme with other parts of Government, not least the record investment in research and development—increased from £15 billion to £22 billion—so that we take the best of our academic research in our universities, and get the start-ups and then the scale-ups in places such as Huddersfield.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Steve Barclay

Thursday 25th November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is on Thursday mornings, Mr Speaker, that those of us who are regulars miss David Amess—those Thursday mornings when he was so lively and showed that he was a true parliamentarian.

When the Minister talks about putting jobs in places around the country, will he lead, with all of us in our constituencies, a campaign for sustainable development in every town, city and community in this country?

[Steve Barclay]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his first comments, which are widely shared across the House.

On the hon. Gentleman’s substantive point, I agree. I was recently looking, for example, at the Cabinet Office relocation plans for Peterborough, which were part of a much wider regeneration programme that will make a significant difference there. One of the key learnings from past attempts by previous Governments to relocate civil servants outside London is that one has to do it a way that builds a hub and spoke, so that there is a sustainable career and it sits within a wider regeneration, as in areas such as York. He makes an extremely important point, and it is a key part of the plans we are bringing forward.

--- Later in debate ---

[Steve Barclay]

I, and I am sure all hon. Members, join the Prime Minister in saying how deeply saddened we all are by the terrible tragedy we saw yesterday.

The response to the challenge of small boats is a whole-of-Government endeavour, and it is therefore right that we work across the whole of Government to look at all aspects of that journey: upstream, our processing and our legal framework. My hon. Friend will be aware that progress has been made, and 20,000 crossings have been stopped so far this year. We will continue to work in partnership with the French to ensure we can avert tragedies such as we saw yesterday.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

I do not want the Secretary of State to get away with it this morning. What is he doing about the “blob”? If he reads the Tory-supporting Daily Telegraph, it says that the blob is stopping the Government, and the Prime Minister in particular, getting their policies delivered in every Department. Can the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster tell us a little more about what this blob is? If it is stopping the Government delivering their policies, could he do something about blobism?

Public Health Restrictions: Government Economic Support

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Steve Barclay

Tuesday 13th October 2020 Commons Chamber

[Steve Barclay]

First of all , I am always happy to meet my hon. Friend and I welcome the constructive approach that he always takes on these issues. In terms of eligibility, part of the design of the discretionary grant was to give discretion to local authorities to apply it in different ways, and it would be slightly at odds with that for the Government to say that there must be a particular way of applying it. However, he speaks to a sector that I know has been particularly hard hit by covid; we recognise that, and it is a factor that has shaped a number of the approaches we have brought forward, particularly on things such as cash flow. I am very happy to speak with him.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op) [V]]

May I be helpful to the Chief Secretary, as I have been sometimes in the past? I am the Member of Parliament for Huddersfield in west Yorkshire; we are tier 2 and, like so many parts of the country, we will be facing vast problems of youth unemployment. May I be very helpful by asking him to look at Margaret Thatcher’s history? She introduced a windfall profit tax on the banks. Why cannot he introduce a windfall profit tax year on Amazon, the gambling sector—you name it; we know who has done well in this crisis—and then use that money to fund a wonderful green revolution, with new green businesses, new green training and new green jobs for young people?

[Steve Barclay]

I have always found the hon. Gentleman constructive, and I welcome the fact that he is looking at the fiscal position we face as a country and how we may address that. It would be remiss of me, given my responsibilities, to stray into the terrain of the next Budget and tax-raising measures; I will leave that for my right hon. Friend the Chancellor.

The hon. Gentleman is right to highlight the very serious issue of youth unemployment. I think it is an issue that concerns us all in this House. The sectors that are most hit have concentrations of young people, particularly in the hospitality sector. It is really at the heart of the winter plan that my right hon. Friend brought forward in doubling the number of work coaches, in tripling the number of traineeships and with the £2,000 for apprenticeships. We have been looking at and learning from not just the Thatcher era, but actually from the previous Labour Government with some of the packages we discussed with the TUC and others. One of the great challenges we face is how we address not just the number of people who are unemployed, but the length of time they are unemployed. That is an absolutely key issue, and that is why the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions is so focused on doubling the number of work coaches. The hon. Gentleman is quite right to highlight that issue.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Steve Barclay

Thursday 9th January 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

I welcome the Secretary of State back to this House. We have always got on very well, and he is much cleverer than me, but I do have a couple of degrees in economics. When the President of the European Commission comes here and says that in any deal, if we do not have free movement of labour we will not get free movement of goods and services, is that not something that we should all be very sad about as we leave the European Union?

[Steve Barclay]

I am always grateful to the hon. Gentleman for how he champions his constituents and raises thoughtful points. He is quite right to pick up on what I thought was a constructive speech from the European Commission President at the London School of Economics yesterday and to draw the House’s attention to it. What I took away from her speech was her language about wanting a very ambitious partnership—she referred to

“old friends and new beginnings”

and drew on her own time in London and how much she enjoyed it and valued the United Kingdom. She wanted to see a close partnership, whether on climate change, security or many other issues on which we have values in common with our neighbours.

European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill and Extension Letter

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Steve Barclay

Monday 21st October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Barclay]

As my hon. Friend knows, the Benn legislation was designed to prevent a no-deal exit. The Prime Minister was told that changing the backstop was impossible; he delivered it. He was told that the withdrawal agreement text could not be changed; he did so. We now have a deal that the House can pass; I hope Members across the House will do so with the withdrawal agreement Bill in order that we can leave on 31 October, as citizens and businesses around the country want us to do, and get on with it.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

I hope the Secretary of State realises that I could never get angry with him. He and I have always had a very good relationship, and I trust him a very long way, but I beg him to talk to the Prime Minister about his philosophy of “Get on with it” and “We must get this done”. Does he not agree that it is our sacred duty not just to get on with it but to ensure that the deal and the quality of the deal will actually serve our constituents? They depend on us for their health, their welfare, their future and their prosperity, so we must take this business seriously and slowly. “Get on with it” is a nasty jibe. Stop it!

[Stephen Barclay]

First, I thank the hon. Gentleman for the kind words with which he prefaced his question. I have always enjoyed working with him on that basis. He is right to say that we need to get the detail right, but we also need to be clear as to the scope of the withdrawal agreement Bill. It is to implement the deal—the international treaty—that has been reached. It is not to determine the future relationship, which the House, through the withdrawal agreement Bill, will have a lot of opportunity to discuss and get right in the negotiation mandate. We need to implement the treaty through what has been agreed with the EU in the withdrawal agreement Bill, and then get on to the debate, which I look forward to having with the hon. Gentleman, on the terms of the free trade agreement as we move forward with that deal.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Steve Barclay

Thursday 27th June 2019 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Barclay]

The hon. Lady raises a very important point—one that has, sadly, been subject to quite a lot of misleading scare stories. She will have seen the written statement we published yesterday setting out steps we are taking to ensure the smooth flow of goods, and medicines will be the priority within that. She will be aware that it is not simply an issue of flow, but also of stock and of regulation. The Department of Health, in particular, is doing considerable work on these issues.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

May I remind the Secretary of State that this is not just about medicines, although that is important enough, but also about staff? Is he aware of how many distressed loyal servants of the NHS have now decided that this is a hostile environment in our country and are going home to their own European countries? That is very sad. Will he remind the contenders to be our next Prime Minister that they do not have a majority in the House of Commons and when they get back here they are going to get a short shower of reality on them?

[Stephen Barclay]

The hon. Gentleman, like me, cares deeply about the NHS, but it is a fact that there are 700 more doctors working in the NHS today. He shakes his head, but it is a fact. There are 700 more doctors working in the NHS today than at the time of the referendum. It is important that we are welcoming. We recognise the talent, the service and the importance of EU citizens in our NHS. As a former Health Minister, I absolutely agree with him on that. But it is also important that our debate in this place reinforces that positive message and recognises that more doctors have come here, not fewer, since the referendum.

Leaving the EU: Business of the House

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Steve Barclay

Wednesday 12th June 2019 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Barclay]

I give way to the hon. Gentleman.

[Mr Sheerman]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have been in this House a hell of a long time, as most people know.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

I do not think that what I would call motion exegesis is a matter for the Chair. I think it is for the Secretary of State to explain the terms of his comments on the motion. I am saddened if the hon. Gentleman is befuddled. I would not want him to remain in a state of nescience for any length of time, so I hope the Secretary of State will elaborate, and then clarity will descend on the hon. Gentleman and all the people of Huddersfield.

[Stephen Barclay]

I will happily respond. The hon. Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman) is right: he has been in the House a long time—so long that he was actually a Eurosceptic when he arrived.

[Mr Sheerman]

And I grew up!

[Stephen Barclay]

There is still time.

Let me return to the text of the Opposition day motion, whose scope is virtually unlimited for business in relation to the UK’s withdrawal from the EU. Almost all aspects of our national life fall within that scope. Potentially, an individual Member could table a motion and it would be Mr Speaker alone who would determine precedence.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Steve Barclay

Thursday 16th May 2019 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Barclay]

I know my hon. Friend’s constituency very well, as it is where I was born and grew up. He is absolutely right to highlight the importance of this issue in the farming sector. I am happy to give him the commitment that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs is looking at this issue. My hon. Friend will be aware that this is part of a wider approach, where we can take a much more bespoke approach to our farming needs once we are out of the EU, rather than the catch-all, one-size-fits-all approach in which the common agricultural policy applies.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Minister will know that food processing is very much related to farming, and it is our biggest manufacturing sector. Has he talked to that sector? Does he not realise that research by King’s College London shows that every leave constituency of this country will be 20% worse off leaving the EU—on any terms?

[Stephen Barclay]

First, may I join the Prime Minister in recognising the hon. Gentleman’s service? He said at Prime Minister’s questions yesterday that he was a Eurosceptic when he came into the House; there is still time for him to return to his true beliefs.

As the hon. Gentleman is well aware, I represent one of the key farming constituencies in the country, in the fens. He will also be aware that the majority of farmers voted to leave because they see the opportunities—for example, in respect of things like the three-crop rule, which is restrictive for many in the farming community. Through the Agriculture Bill, we can have a much more bespoke approach. The key issue is to speak to those who actually farm. The overriding message from the National Farmers Union is to back the deal, and farmers themselves want the liberty of being outside the straitjacket of the EU. That is what this Government will deliver.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Barclay]

Throughout the period since the—

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

The nurses are all going home!

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Barclay]

Any news regarding an individual company is always concerning, in particular because our minds turn to the staff and their families who are dealing with the situation. This is an area in which the parties traditionally come together and work together to try to resolve the issue. However, we should not take these things out of context. Only this week, we had the lowest unemployment since 1974, and that is an indication of our economic strength. When bad news is always blamed on Brexit, as some Opposition Members seem to want to do, it is always worth remembering that we have not yet left.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

T5. Will the Secretary of State assure me that he has read the major piece of research led by King’s College London and Sheffield University, alongside universities across Europe, into the impact on communities of leaving the EU on any basis? Is he as dreadfully worried as I am that many of the hardest hit will be those towns and cities that voted to leave? On the basis of these figures, many people are predicting a 20% cut in GDP, which would turn those areas into investment and employment wastelands.

[Stephen Barclay]

The hon. Gentleman seems to be saying that the people in those communities that voted to leave should not be trusted with their vote, but that is not what he says at a general election when those same communities return Labour MPs. He does not say, when those people look at the economic policy of the Leader of the Opposition, that they are too stupid to be trusted with a vote, yet when it comes to the biggest vote in our country’s history, he seems to be saying that their vote should not be respected.

Article 50 Extension

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Steve Barclay

Wednesday 20th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Barclay]

I am conscious that I have taken quite a lot of interventions.

Three years after the country voted to leave, Parliament continues—

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Almost surreptitiously, the Secretary of State announced a couple of sentences ago that we were going to have the next meaningful vote on Monday. That has not been announced in this House. I had no knowledge of it. The Father of the House has been making sensible suggestions for how we can, together, progress what we want to get out of the deliberations. Those will be confounded by the fact that the meaningful vote is being brought forward to Monday.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Barclay]

If I did misspeak, of course I will apologise to the House and seek to clarify the record. I think the point being made was about a meaningful vote—sorry, I have just done it again; it was about an amendable motion. That was the point, and I think the shadow Secretary of State accepts it: we were referring to an amendable motion.

[Mr Sheerman]

rose—

[Stephen Barclay]

I give way.

[Mr Sheerman]

The Secretary of State is very kind, but I pulled him up on a point of order because I thought I had heard what he said. Will he address the concern that the Father of the House keeps raising? If we rush into this, we will not have time to do exactly what the Father of the House has been proposing: give ourselves some objectives, so that we know that we are going into Europe to say, “In this extra time we have, this is what we think is achievable.” This House could come together and do that, but if we have too early a vote, we will have no chance to get our house in order and do it.

[Stephen Barclay]

The hon. Gentleman’s interventions are always very reasonable. I am grateful for the opportunity to clarify on the record that I was referring to the amendable motion. On the substance of his point, we will come back on Monday and set out at the Dispatch Box exactly how we will honour the commitment that was given by the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Steve Barclay

Thursday 24th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Barclay]

We have already covered the fact that there is an issue for the farming community in terms of tariffs. That is why I advocate a deal and those voting against a deal need to explain the impact of that issue to farmers. However, polls are obviously selective, but a poll taken in Farmers Weekly showed that a majority of farmers supported leaving the EU. I suspect that that was because they see a brighter future where we can have high animal welfare standards and good environmental standards, building on the reforms set out in the Agriculture Bill. So instead of talking down the opportunity of Brexit for farmers, this House should be looking at the opportunities that a green Brexit will deliver.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Minister might know that as the chair of my party’s Back-Bench DEFRA committee, I think there are at last real signs that preparation for farming and farmers has been quite significant. However, that contrasts distinctly with what has been happening with the Secretary of State for International Trade. Has the Brexit Secretary seen the disgraceful remarks that his colleague made in Davos yesterday? Has he seen the front page of The Times, which says that 100 companies are going to the Netherlands, to Ireland and to France? What is he going to do, talking to colleagues, actually to get things moving?

[Stephen Barclay]

The hon. Gentleman talks about disgraceful comments from Davos, but I do not want to dwell too much on what Tony Blair may or may not have said. The hon. Gentleman makes a serious point, which is that timing is of the essence for the business community. Businesses face decisions about their no-deal planning, and they want the certainty of the deal that the Prime Minister has to offer. Opposition Members who have tabled amendments that seek to delay the level of uncertainty need to ask themselves how that uncertainty and delay is helping the business community, who need to get on in the real world and make those decisions.

EU Withdrawal Agreement: Legal Changes

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Steve Barclay

Monday 7th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Barclay]

My hon. Friend is a very experienced Member, and she will know that it is the House that governs its business. As happened with the previous statement, the business is shaped by business motions and what the House does. It is not normal practice—this has been an issue for successive Governments—for legal advice to be published. There are very good reasons for that, which the Attorney General set out, but ultimately the House controls its own business.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

Has the Secretary of State been out and about talking to people during the Christmas break? Is he aware that people are saying, “Here we are in the greatest crisis this country has had in any of our lifetimes, at a time when we can have a 10-year plan for the national health service but no 10-year plan for the future of this country”? The people of this country feel let down by politicians on both sides. We have no plan. We have no purpose. We need leadership, and we need it now.

[Stephen Barclay]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for acknowledging that we have a genuine plan for the NHS, and I pay tribute to the work of the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care on that.

On what people say to me and other Members, I am always slightly wary of that, because it is somewhat subjective, and people have a tendency to select the conversations that suit their argument, but the majority of comments I have had from constituents demonstrate a desire for us to get on with it, back the deal, move forward and end this period of divisiveness. That said, I am sure the hon. Gentleman will have had different conversations with different constituents.

EU Exit: Article 50

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Steve Barclay

Monday 10th December 2018 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Barclay]

It was a good attempt to shoehorn the indyref debate into the one on this referendum, but the reality is that the hon. Gentleman’s party lost in that referendum. That is why it is a UK decision and the referendum in 2016 was on the basis of a United Kingdom decision. He might not like democracy—he might not like the way the vote goes—but unfortunately his side lost in 2014. One would have thought that he might have come to terms with that four years on.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

I know that the Secretary of State is quite new in his post, but has he looked at the impact of today’s events on the financial markets and the value of the pound? Has he met, as I have today, a major manufacturing company with worldwide markets that is desperately worried about staying in the United Kingdom? Does he not realise that many people think we are on the cusp of an economic and financial meltdown now—not in the distant future, but now? The revocation of article 50 could help to sort that out.

[Stephen Barclay]

As I am sure that you, Mr Speaker, and the House recall, the hon. Gentleman voted to trigger article 50. He himself voted for it, so if he is now saying that he has changed his mind, perhaps that is the sort of uncertainty about which the financial markets have expressed concern. They look to the House for a response that will deliver them certainty for their investment and see Members like the hon. Gentleman changing their mind.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Steve Barclay

Thursday 6th December 2018 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Barclay]

The hon. Lady and I explored that point in Committee, and it is not the case that in the event of no deal we would lose those agreements, because we are having those bilateral discussions. She points to a wider point, however, which is that the deal on the table from the Prime Minister is the way to deliver the certainty that our country needs and what the business community wants. That is why it is the right deal, the only deal and the deal the House should support.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

I welcome the Minister to his new post, and I hope he stays around long enough to realise how complex the world is in terms of international trade. Will he look forensically at what really happened with Bombardier, which was part of a complex supply chain? He does realise—does he not?—that no deal is as good as staying in the European Union.

[Stephen Barclay]

I feel that I should look to the hon. Gentleman when it comes to sticking around, because he is a good model for many of us in the House. He is right to mention the importance of Bombardier. Notwithstanding points that have been raised from a constitutional perspective—I know colleagues in the Democratic Unionist party have raised that issue—the head of Bombardier in Northern Ireland made it clear that the deal that the Prime Minister has secured from the European Union is the right deal for Bombardier and for Northern Ireland.

Draft Nursing and Midwifery (Amendment) Order 2018

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Steve Barclay

Wednesday 20th June 2018 General Committees

[The Minister for Health (Stephen Barclay)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Nursing and Midwifery (Amendment) Order 2018.

It is always a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Evans. Health Education England’s “Shape of Caring” review made a series of recommendations to strengthen the capacity and skills of the nursing and caring workforce. A key recommendation was to explore the need for a defined carer role to act as a bridge between the unregulated healthcare assistant workforce and the registered nursing workforce. The amendments that we are proposing to the Nursing and Midwifery Order 2001 put in place provisions to regulate a nursing associate role that satisfies that recommendation.

In short, the proposed amendments to the 2001 order give the Nursing and Midwifery Council statutory responsibility for regulating the nursing associate profession in England and extend its powers and duties under the order to nursing associates in respect of the key functions of registering nursing associates in England and setting the standards of proficiency, education and training, and continuing professional development and the conduct of nursing associates in England.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

During my time as Chair of the Select Committee on Education there was great controversy about teaching assistants and whether they diluted the profession. I can see that nursing associates need to be registered, to have that recognition of being regulated, but will nursing associates mean a watering down of the profession? Will we have a large number of them as substitutes for highly qualified nurses?

[Stephen Barclay]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising that point. I think we can all see the value for children in school that teaching assistants offer alongside teachers. They are a good example of how, in education, the need for a diverse workforce has developed, and that is exactly what today’s order addresses. It is a response to what employers have said they want, which is more flexibility in their workforce, to ensure progression for staff who want to progress into nursing, but who in the past might have felt trapped in a healthcare assistant role by having young children or otherwise been constrained from going to university. Our proposal gives them a ladder between the two roles, as part of a flexible workforce that responds to employers in the way that happens in education, as the hon. Gentleman correctly said.

[Mr Sheerman]

Is the plan to expand the nursing profession by enabling people to join as nursing associates before becoming better qualified and ending up as fully qualified nurses?

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[Stephen Barclay]

The hon. Gentleman is right to probe on this, because that is the essence of the Government’s proposal. The nursing associate role is a stepping stone. Some people will progress to nursing associate and stay in that role, but some, having done the foundation year of their degree, might want to do the following two years and become a nurse. We want to respond constructively to that aspiration, which his constituents will have, as do mine. Some will start as healthcare assistants, gaining valuable experience in that role, but some will want to progress to nursing associate and some will want to become a registered nurse. The draft order is about ensuring flexibility in the workforce to enable that.

[Mr Sheerman]

I have checked, and the starting qualification for a nursing associate is GCSEs grades 4 to 9 in English and maths. The lower end of that range is very low indeed, is it not? Indeed, it is the same starting qualification for teaching assistants. Is the Minister happy with that?

[Stephen Barclay]

Yes, I am, and it is helpful of the hon. Gentleman to raise this issue. The qualifications that nursing associates will undertake are to be set by the NMC, so people will need to go on courses that satisfy the NMC. However, they will also gain valuable hands-on experience alongside their foundation training. Our proposals are about creating a ladder from the nursing associate role. Some will stay at that level, because they feel that, educationally, that is the level they have attained, and they want to continue as a nursing associate—

[Mr Sheerman]

rose—

[Stephen Barclay]

I will just finish my point and will then happily take one further intervention, after which I will make some progress.

Quite rightly, some people will want to continue as a nursing associate, playing a valuable role on a ward and freeing up those who have done three years at university level to focus more on skilled roles. That is part of the flexibility that employers have asked for. Others, having had a taste in the foundation year, will want to do a further two years. The system allows that progression, which I am sure the hon. Gentleman’s constituents will want.

[Mr Sheerman]

The Minister said that he would allow me one last intervention, and this will be my last. The great criticism of nursing has been that it became an academic and university qualification. Everybody said that something had gone wrong. If we tie this change to graduate apprenticeships, which nursing is moving towards, it could mark the beginning of a return to a much more hands-on, experience-driven qualification. That is most interesting, so I thank the Minister for his responses.

[Stephen Barclay]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I see exactly what he is driving at, and I have a great deal of sympathy with that point. It is slightly beyond the scope of this legislation, which covers those who satisfy the foundation-course level after their first year. If they want to become a registered nurse, they will need to satisfy, as now, the three-year-degree level. The legislation does not say that people do not have to reach the educational attainment of a registered nurse. Rather, it allows them to continue to earn, to gain hands-on experience and to do that in stages, which may provide flexibility to, for example, those with young children or other caring responsibilities. It allows that stepping stone.

The hon. Gentleman touches on a point slightly beyond the scope of today’s order, which is whether someone could gain a nursing qualification without a degree—I think that was within his question. That is not what this legislation does. It requires—

[Mr Sheerman]

On a tiny point of information, it is fascinating to think that we could get back to the days when people had much more hands-on training and went right through to a degree, but with no debt.

[Stephen Barclay]

The hon. Gentleman absolutely sees my enthusiasm for this order, and that is why I hope that colleagues on both sides of the Committee will support it. Alongside the apprenticeship levy, it offers an alternative to a student loan and what we might see as a more conventional degree. That is not to say that we will not continue with that route, because obviously it will remain a main pathway into nursing, but it is good to give flexibility to employers and to school leavers and others who see the opportunity to go into nursing. We are conscious that, currently, many people who want to do nursing are rejected when they apply, so having different pathways is a key part of the system.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Steve Barclay

Tuesday 24th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

If the ministerial team are to deliver anything for the London Finance Commission, will the Minister at least talk to the commission about the difficulty, with Brexit coming, of recruiting anyone to come to live and work in London? The search for talent is very difficult indeed. No one wants to work in this financial capital because of Brexit—what is he going to do about it?

[Stephen Barclay]

The hon. Gentleman needs to question whether Labour Members are fully signed up to the recommendations of the London Finance Commission. For example, many of his colleagues on the Opposition Benches may not support the retaining of almost half of all stamp duty across England.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Steve Barclay

Tuesday 18th July 2017 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Barclay]

I very much agree with my hon. Friend. In fact, there are 55,000 fewer young people unemployed than there were a year ago, thanks in large part to the investment that this Government are putting into apprenticeships.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

Is the Minister aware that if we are going to do anything about skills or productivity in our country and our communities, we have got to look to local further education colleges? Will he support, with money, resources and leadership, the introduction of a practical maths course to help young people who are waiting in colleges up and down the country, struggling to get apprenticeships? Will he talk to the Education Secretary about doing that, to get these young people on their way?

[Stephen Barclay]

The hon. Gentleman will welcome the Government’s record investment of £500 million in T-levels, to tackle exactly the issue that he has raised in technical education. The Government’s commitment can also be seen in apprenticeships. Whereas under the last Labour Government there were just 280,000 apprenticeship starts, there were more than half a million last year under this Government.