Trade (Australia and New Zealand) Bill (Fourth sitting)

Bill Esterson Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 18th October 2022 Public Bill Committees

There was concern that trade unions were not consulted. I can assure the Committee that there are six trade advisory groups on which the unions serve. In fact, the union representative mentioned in her evidence a number of meetings that Frances O’Grady had been in with the Secretary of State, rather proving the point that there has been consultation. However, there is an underlying point that the hon. Member for Sefton Central made about unions needing to be represented. We need to be very careful. In our democratic position, we need to consult, but it is our job as democratically elected individuals to make those decisions. We should consult, but it is us who decide. We do not want to put outside bodies, whether it is the CBI or the unions, in decision-making positions; we want to put them in advisory and consultative positions.

[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

Rosa Crawford pointed out that the trade unions had never been given a place on the trade advisory groups since they were set up, if the Minister remembers last week’s evidence session. Why is it that in the United States the trade unions have access to negotiating texts and are able to influence changes, as they did in protecting workers in Mexico? Does he think that that is right or wrong? If he thinks it is right, why does he not allow it to happen in this country?

[Sir James Duddridge]

The unions are involved in the trade advisory groups. There is, I think, one issue with an offer that has been made to one union to join, but it is holding out because it wants another union also to be involved and is therefore not participating.

On returning to the Department after the previous sitting, one of my officials expressed surprise at the evidence given because it contradicted something she had been at—she had been present at one of those meetings. While I am happy to look again and the current Secretary of State has made it clear that she wants all consultees to be included in the process, we are the decision makers in our process, and I would not want to contract out UK Government decision making to any organisation.

I am not going to answer the question on the United States. I am responsible for many things, but not the system in the US.