Northern Ireland Protocol

Carla Lockhart Excerpts

Wednesday 21st July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

The agreement we are seeking is one that recognises that Northern Ireland is fundamentally part of the UK internal market. That means not only the goods which at the moment can move unfettered from Northern Ireland to Great Britain, but getting to a point where goods moving from Great Britain to Northern Ireland, to be used and consumed in Northern Ireland, are also able to flow freely. We fully recognise the need to deal with checks and issues for products that are moving into Ireland, and therefore the EU and the single market. We will continue to do that. We think there is a realistic, practical and pragmatic way to do that, so that we avoid all those goods, including from companies that do not even trade within Ireland, having still to go through the same checks as if they were going into the single market. That is just not sustainable. It is not right for businesses and it is not right for consumers in Northern Ireland.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP) [V]]

This is a welcome step and we await the response from the EU. Of course, its refusal to recognise the fundamental flaws of the protocol and the intransigent approach of the Dublin Government must change if this process is to succeed. We will wait and see if they have the capability to be flexible. The Prime Minister, in his foreword to the Command Paper, references the protection of the peace process and the Belfast agreement in all its parts as the rationale for the protocol. Does the Secretary of State agree that a fundamental building block is the principle of cross-community consent? Does he agree that whatever the outcome of the negotiations it must have the consent of the Unionist community, which is entirely absent from the current arrangements?

[Brandon Lewis]

The hon. Lady makes a very important point. The issues with the protocol and the problems it has created for consumers and businesses affect all communities in Northern Ireland, but she is absolutely right that there is a fundamental problem that the Northern Ireland protocol, as it is currently working, does not have the consent of all, in all communities. It has to have that to have stability and the ability to deliver peace and prosperity. That is why it is important to enter the negotiations with the absolute aim of ensuring an outcome that resolves those underlying problems and works for people of all communities in Northern Ireland. She is absolutely right: it has to have the consent of all of them, including, obviously, the Unionist community.

Northern Ireland (Ministers, Elections and Petitions of Concern) Bill

Carla Lockhart Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 22nd June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

The New Decade, New Approach agreement certainly paved the way for the return of the Northern Ireland Assembly in January 2020, and this was welcomed by everyone. It is therefore ironic that the backdrop to today’s Second Reading debate is a decision of this Government to threaten to usurp the role of the Northern Ireland Assembly in the exercise of its newly restored powers, not to prioritise the promises and pledges on health, the economy and education but to prioritise a cultural package. Mention has already been made of this, but I need to reiterate that the three-year long crisis and absence of devolution in Northern Ireland was precipitated by Sinn Féin’s refusal to share power unless and until its demands were met. In doing so, it held to ransom not just the other political parties in Northern Ireland but every person on the health service waiting lists, as they spiralled out of control.

Somewhere along the line, the fact that the sustainability provisions in this Bill are actually needed as a direct result of the behaviour of Sinn Féin would seem to have been forgotten. A former Member of this House for the Foyle constituency used to say, “What gets rewarded gets repeated”, and that is never more true than today. Last week, Sinn Féin played the same old trick again and, surprise, surprise, was richly rewarded by this Government. That is the message that will have been heard loud and clear across Northern Ireland. The precedent has been set. If Sinn Féin was prepared to use such tactics to speed up the delivery of a cultural package, many in my community would ask why Unionists would not adopt the same approach when the constitutional status of Northern Ireland within the UK is at stake, under the guise of the protocol.

At its heart, this Bill is about the sustainability of the political institutions in Northern Ireland, yet the delay in introducing this legislation has contributed to the lack of political stability in the Province. Had the Government introduced this legislation sooner, they might have avoided the ransom politics of Sinn Féin, who were prepared to hold the political institutions hostage over the timing of a cultural package set out in NDNA. Having spent three years working to secure the return of powers at Stormont, Sinn Féin wasted no time in giving back control to Westminster, not because the DUP refused to implement the cultural aspects of NDNA, but because it would not do so ahead of other priorities within that agreement. As a Unionist, I suppose the fact that Sinn Féin has changed its message from “Brits out” to “Brits in” should be regarded as progress. However, the fact that the Government are prepared to pass legislation without the consent of the Northern Ireland Assembly on matters that are entirely within the devolved arena at the behest of a party that does not even take its seats in this House is beyond parody.

The last time the Government breached the Sewel convention, with regard to abortion and same-sex marriage, they did so under the cover of the absence of the Northern Ireland Assembly, much to my frustration and despair. Today, no such pretence or pretext exists. Instead, a new exception to the Sewel convention has been created. In the light of this background, the fact that elements of this Bill will not achieve the desired objectives seems almost irrelevant. Let us take just one example. When the First Minister or Deputy First Minister resigns, as happened last week, there can now be a period of up to 24 weeks to replace them without the need for a fresh election, but there are no arrangements in place to allow the institutions to function credibly during this period. In the absence of a First Minister or Deputy First Minister, no Executive can meet and Ministers are unable to take significant or controversial decisions. That is not a sustainable way to do business, and I hope that those arrangements can be looked at again in light of recent experience.

My party signed up to New Decade, New Approach in its entirety, not because we welcomed every dot and comma but because we believe in devolution and we believed that the agreement was a pathway forward for the devolved institutions. It was by no means a deal without fault, but with waiting lists spiralling out of control, with the challenges posed by Brexit, with the need to address educational underachievement, with welfare reform mitigations coming to an end and with so many other issues pressing on people’s lives, we engaged with other parties to stop the harm that Sinn Féin’s boycott was doing to ordinary people in Northern Ireland.

However, NDNA is about more than the cultural provisions on which there is considerable focus. It also deals with the reform of public services, policing resources, infrastructure investment and so much more, yet on much of this there has been no progress and nothing said. The voices on these Benches from within the Government and the Opposition that are so exercised by the Irish language question are silent on the worst waiting lists in the whole of the United Kingdom.

The Bill is designed to address the sustainability of the political institutions in Northern Ireland, yet in the final analysis the Assembly will be sustainable only if the devolution settlement in Northern Ireland is respected. My party is prepared to lend its support to the Bill tonight, but I have very real concerns that the Bill is too little, too late. Through their actions in recent days, the Government have damaged the devolved settlement in Northern Ireland in a way that they would never countenance doing in Scotland or Wales. The real challenge for this Government in the coming weeks will be to address their commitments in New Decade, New Approach in relation to the UK’s internal market. I trust that, in that endeavour, we can count on those in this House who supported the Government’s approach to the culture package to display the same enthusiasm in that regard.

Ballymurphy Inquest Findings

Carla Lockhart Excerpts

Thursday 13th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

As I mentioned in my opening remarks, I agree that there is no doubt, and we do need to acknowledge, that the actions and the particular incidents at Ballymurphy did fuel further reactions and retaliations that drove the troubles, particularly in those early years. We need to take accountability; that is why I referenced that in my statement.

The hon. Lady is also right that it is right that the state takes accountability and apologises, exactly as we are doing today, when there is clear acknowledgment that things were done that were wrong. That is what we are doing today. I fundamentally agree with her that it is important that, whoever the actors were, there is a huge majority of unsolved deaths, injuries and murders across Northern Ireland that people are looking for information about. They have a right to get that information, and we need to do everything we can to get that information, to get that accountability and to get to the truth.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP) [V]]

I take the Secretary of State back to 8.30 am on this day, 13 May, in 1994 in Hill Street, Lurgan in my constituency of Upper Bann. Fred Anthony, 38, a Protestant, was a cleaner in the town’s Royal Ulster Constabulary station. As he travelled in his car along Hill Street with his wife and two children, an IRA booby-trap bomb exploded. Fred Anthony died; his three-year-old daughter spent a week in a coma, both her legs were broken and shrapnel lodged close to her brain—a life lost and a family destroyed.

No one has ever been charged in relation to this cold-blooded, ruthless murder. The Anthony family, who I spoke with this morning—like so many families of victims of the Provisional IRA—desire truth and justice. They look at the Ballymurphy findings and wish that they, too, had been given the same resource to find truth as the Ballymurphy families, who have fought hard and learned so much. What is the Secretary of State’s message to the Anthony family today, and what support can he give them to find truth and justice?

[Brandon Lewis]

The hon. Lady has again highlighted the very sad reality of too many families not yet having an understanding of the information that they need to be able to know what happened and the truth, which gives an ability to move forward. We are very clear that our objective of addressing the legacy of the troubles and delivering on our commitments means that we want to deal with the past in a way that helps people in Northern Ireland, such as the families that the hon. Lady just outlined, to look forward. That means that this is something we need to deliver on. We need to find a system that can get that information and get to the truth. It is clear that this week’s case—let alone other cases that we have seen recently—shows fundamentally that the current system has not been, and is not, delivering for victims and the people of Northern Ireland. When it takes 50 years to get the truth, something is wrong and we need to find a different way forward.

Abortion (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2021

Carla Lockhart Excerpts

Monday 26th April 2021 General Committees

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

The regulations are not just based on the false premise that they are a requirement of international law; they represent a grievous breach of the devolved settlement. For those reasons, and because I believe that the regulations do not reflect the will of the people of Northern Ireland, I cannot support them. We are told that the regulations are being introduced to satisfy the requirements of section 9 of the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019, but to understand the constitutional problem that is section 9 it is necessary to appreciate that the case for the vote on 9 July 2019 was greatly strengthened by a claim that it is now clear was not true.

In urging the House to vote for the amendment that became section 9, its proponents suggested that it was required because we in Northern Ireland were in violation of our international human rights obligations. That was completely inaccurate. The CEDAW convention, which is international law and is supposed to define the terms of reference of the CEDAW committee, does not even mention abortion, let alone define a right to it. Moreover, the CEDAW committee is not a judicial body, and it does not have standing to read in a right to abortion, as demonstrated by Professor Mark Hill, QC.

While the Government were deafeningly silent on that point when it mattered during the debate on 9 July 2019, the explanatory memorandum to the regulations belatedly recognises that paragraphs 85 and 86 do not constitute international obligations—the very term that was used to describe them in July 2019. The document states:

“The section 26 power cannot be relied on by the Secretary of State to ensure that the recommendations in paragraphs 85 and 86 of the CEDAW Report are implemented. In particular, those recommendations are not binding and do not constitute international obligations.”

It could not be any plainer, so despite what has been claimed, it is clear that the regulations are not a requirement of international law.

The suggestion that the Government are compelled to act as a matter of domestic law is equally dubious. What exactly is required by virtue of section 9 is a matter of debate; that the Government have an overwhelming majority in the House of Commons is not. The Minister suggests that Parliament gives him no choice in the matter, as though Parliament cannot change an Act of Parliament that it introduced when there was no Assembly, now that the Northern Ireland Assembly has returned. I strongly disagree.

To consider the proper responsibility of the Government, as custodians of the Union, in relation to Northern Ireland, one must first remember that the legitimacy of section 9 and the regulation-making powers rests on a vote on 9 July 2019 on what was not just Northern-Ireland-only legislation, but legislation on a devolved matter, in relation to which 100% of the Northern Ireland MPs who take their seats voted no. Notwithstanding that, the radical and deeply controversial legislative change proposed in what became section 9 was imposed on Northern Ireland by the votes of MPs from the rest of the United Kingdom, none of whom had a mandate to represent Northern Ireland on the issue.

I do not question the fact that Parliament is legally entitled to legislate for Northern Ireland, notwithstanding the fact that certain powers are devolved to the Assembly, but I do question the wisdom of it, and the enduring damage that it will do to the devolved settlement. It opened the door to a regulation-making power, and in principle there is no limit on the number of times the Secretary of State could try to make section 9 regulations. We had one set last year; we have another set this year. All that, even though the Minister of Health in Northern Ireland has stated that there is no legal duty under the current regulations for his Department to commission abortion services.

Each time new section 9 regulations are introduced, they reopen the constitutional sore upon which they rest. Each time, with devolution restored, the powers are used, the Government send out a message that the Northern Ireland Assembly and our current constitutional arrangements are not fit for purpose. Do the Government have no idea how dangerous and how damaging such a message is in the current circumstances? It is also more serious in the sense that it jeopardises an important, distinctive of the part of the Union, which is Northern Ireland, and because we have developed, over more than 50 years, our own approach to valuing the unborn, choosing life and having distinctive life-affirming laws.

The Both Lives Matter “One Hundred Thousand” report, using robust statistical methods, has established that over 100,000 people were alive in Northern Ireland in 2017 who would not have been had the 1967 Act been embraced by the Province. Some people took exception to that and complained to the Advertising Standards Authority, but after a five-month investigation, involving leading statisticians, the Advertising Standards Authority rejected the complaint, concluding that 100,000 was a reasonable claim.

That is in stark contrast to the 9 million aborted here in GB—one baby every two minutes. By the time I finish my speech, another three lives will have been lost or ended. That might not matter very much to some in England, Scotland or Wales, but it matters very deeply to many people in Northern Ireland, touching on a core Northern Ireland distinctive—choosing life.

Reflecting on that, it is vital to remember that the United Kingdom is a Union—a relationship of component parts that are not all the same in every respect. In coming together, we are more than the sum of our parts. Our Union is no more uniform than it is unitary. That means that there is one reason, and one reason only, that Northern Ireland has been overruled. It is not because of any international human rights imperative; it is because a majority of Members of Parliament from Great Britain chose to impose this on Northern Ireland against the wishes of its people and their representatives.

[Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)]

I understand the conundrum the hon. Lady is in. She says that the regulations do not reflect the resolved position of Northern Ireland. Surely we are here today precisely because there is not a resolved political position among the representatives of the people in the Northern Ireland Assembly, although the vast majority of people in Northern Ireland want to have the same regulations and rules on abortion that we have in the rest of the United Kingdom and in the rest of the island of Ireland?

[Carla Lockhart]

The hon. Gentleman will know that I disagree with his assessment. As someone who has her roots firmly in Northern Ireland—

[Richard Graham]

As I do, too.

[Carla Lockhart]

Well, living in Northern Ireland and representing a large constituency there, I know that the vast majority of people in Northern Ireland want laws that choose life. They want life-affirming laws and they want laws that help life to continue. That is why, in common with the hon. Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge, I call on the Government to repeal section 9.

[Mrs Miller]

The hon. Lady is doing a very good job putting her case, but I note that she does not refer to the majority view of the UK Supreme Court, which found that it was entirely likely that the position in Northern Ireland would be out of kilter with human rights law. Surely she sees that, at that point, there was a need to act.

[Carla Lockhart]

I thank the right hon. Lady for making that point, which gives me the opportunity to say that had that ruling been binding, which it was not, and as she will be aware, it would have changed Northern Ireland’s abortion laws in only a very, very minor way around foetal abnormality. That does not weigh up against the far-reaching laws that the Government are forcing on the people of Northern Ireland, which are among the most liberal in Europe.

[Angela Richardson (Guildford) (Con)]

This is an emotive subject, as many hon. Members have said. Does the hon. Lady accept that once these regulations have been passed, when the Northern Ireland Assembly is sitting, they can be amended, because abortion is devolved to Northern Ireland, as the Minister said in his opening speech?

[Carla Lockhart]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. It undermines the devolution settlement for the UK Government to continue to railroad through abortion legislation that is not wanted by the people and legislators in Northern Ireland and the people who are elected to take decisions on the matter. There might well be an opportunity to amend or repeal—I trust there will be—but the regulations undermine the Union, and they undermine Northern Ireland’s place within the Union.

[Angela Richardson]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Carla Lockhart]

I am sorry; I really do want to make progress.

Northern Ireland has been overruled not because of a human rights imperative, but because the majority of Members of Parliament have decided to overrule the wishes of the people of and representatives in Northern Ireland. In that context, the Government have to confront another dimension of the sovereignty of Parliament: the fact that no Parliament can bind its successors. Most GB MPs who were persuaded to vote for section 9 thought that they were voting for a measure for the time when there was no functioning Assembly. As custodians of the Union, rather than welcoming the restoration of Stormont by imposing more regulations on us through a power that rests on what can only be described as a humiliating majority, the Government should read the introduction to the Act in which section 9 is located, which states that it makes certain changes

“subject to the formation of an Executive”.

Now that the Executive have reformed and the timeframe of the Act has passed, rather than saying, “There is nothing we can do apart from introduce new regulations,” the Government should do the responsible, Union-affirming thing, which is to recognise that times have changed, that Stormont has been restored, and that the Parliament that voted for section 9 no longer exists. In that context, it is incumbent on the Secretary of State not to place the Union under the intolerable pressure of yet more regulations resting on the anti-Northern Ireland majority of 9 July 2019, but to ask this new Parliament to repeal section 9.

[Karin Smyth]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way. I have listened to her talk a great deal about this undermining the Union. How does she feel that 1,000 women a year seeking refuge in Britain strengthens the Union? We were proud to support those women in their hour of need, but surely it is time for Northern Ireland to take on its responsibilities as a mature society and support its own people.

[The Chair]

Before we move on, I remind all Members please to wear masks when they are not speaking, unless there is a reason not to.

[Carla Lockhart]

Thank you, Mr Hosie, and I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention, which I am trying to recall following your announcement about masks.

I hear much about the 1,000 women, and I empathise with them. I want pathways for those women to choose life. We need services in Northern Ireland that put their arms around those women and say, “Do you know what? There are other options. The option is to choose life.” I want to see those pathways. I want to see investment in the family unit and in women choosing life. I hear much about the women, and I empathise fully with them, yet I hear so little about the unborn. I hear so little about the baby being aborted. Unfortunately, those little babies do not have a voice, so I feel that I have to have a voice for those that are going to be aborted, their life ended so brutally in the womb.

I call on all Members who believe in the Union and recognise the huge damage resulting from repeatedly using a regulation-making power designed for a time that Stormont was suspended, when it is now fully functional, and whose mandate rests on a vote that, rather than expressing the reality of our Union, manifests instead the humiliation of Northern Ireland, to vote against the regulations. I call on them to press the Government to propose the repeal of section 9, and leave the issue with democratically elected politicians in Northern Ireland.

We are all “fearfully and wonderfully made”, and all unique individuals. As I left for London this morning, I left my little two-year-old boy Charlie, and walked away from him with a broken heart, thinking of the millions of babies whose lives have already been ended, and those that will potentially, under the regulations, be ended in Northern Ireland. I want to impress on Members that they should vote against the regulations and allow Northern Ireland legislators to decide on the issue. I assure everyone that the battle has not ended and the last has not been heard from me and many in this Parliament who will continue to be a voice for the voiceless, and stand up for both lives in every pregnancy.

--- Later in debate ---

[Huw Merriman]

It should not be unusual for a court to determine its views on the law and indeed on whether the Government and Parliament are complying with the law of the day. I would have thought that that was a fundamental separation of powers point. If we do not have a court taking that role I suggest there is something fundamentally wrong with our constitution, which has served us well over hundreds of years. No doubt my right hon. Friend will want to expand on that point in his speech.

The matter has been looked at by each of the institutions that are key to our separation of powers principle, as I have just mentioned with regard to the Supreme Court. In its judgment on 7 June 2018 it made a declaration that the legal position for abortion provision in Northern Ireland was incompatible with articles 3 and 8 of the European convention on human rights, and therefore the UK’s legal obligations. The Supreme Court made it clear that Parliament had three options, one of which was—again, I quote Lady Hale—to

“share our view and pass an Act of Parliament to put things right, which is appropriate if the matter is not simple and easy to solve, and complex arrangements have to be put in place.”

That of course is exactly what Parliament duly did in July 2019. It is at that point that I take exception to the reference made by my hon. Friend the Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge to Parliament’s response to the previous ruling on prisoners’ rights. This is a completely different matter, because in this instance Parliament legislated to take the court’s determination into account. Obviously in the example that my hon. Friend raised it did not.

That takes me on to the second institution in our separation of powers model—ourselves. Section 9 of the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019 provided for reform of Northern Ireland’s abortion law and placed a legal obligation on the Secretary of State to make it possible to get access to local abortion care in Northern Ireland. I was actually here at the time; the hon. Member for Upper Bann tells me that I was somehow fooled into thinking that we passed that just because the Northern Ireland Executive was not sitting. I voted very much on the basis that it was clear that the Court had told Parliament that our legislation was out of kilter with our legal requirements. As this is the mother of Parliaments, I regard it as my job to ensure that Parliament complies with the law by creating new laws to do so. I certainly was not fooled as far as that was concerned.

[Carla Lockhart]

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that the explanatory notes outline that it was not an international law requirement? In hindsight, that was misleading.

[Huw Merriman]

I do not think it was, because I come back to the Court’s interpretation—a clear determination that on two of the articles of the European convention on human rights, the UK was failing its legal obligations. Notwithstanding my interest in ensuring that our abortion laws are updated, I took the fundamental view that it is Parliament’s right to make a determination that we comply with our international legal obligations. My goodness, if we do not on matters such as this, where does it end? How can we lecture other countries around the world about their need to comply with those obligations? As I say, the votes in favour were 328, and 65 against. There was no whipping, and there was an opportunity for a grace period to be inserted should the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly come back together.

Let me move to the third institution: the Executive. I note that Parliament placed a legal obligation on the Secretary of State to enable access to local abortion care in Northern Ireland. The original iteration of the regulations changed legal frameworks around abortions, but did not require that services be commissioned or funded. As we heard, in April 2020, the Northern Ireland Minister of Health, having failed to gain the agreement of the Northern Ireland Executive, refused to commission or fund abortion services. As a result, the only abortion services being funded and put together were those run by health trusts out of their existing budgets and staffing.

The regulations simply empower the Secretary of State to direct local bodies to fund and commission services, ensuring that abortion services are and remain available locally. I fully support the granting of the regulations; they are the final part of the powers that started with the Court’s determination that the UK—and, indeed, Northern Ireland—rules did not comply with our international obligations. Parliament voted in a free vote to fix those rules and ensure change in Northern Ireland, which the Executive have done their best through the Government to deliver, but it needs these further powers to do so.

I have tried to give a legal justification for where we are. I could return to the reasons why, to a certain extent, Lady Hale thought that perhaps we were not best placed to make that determination, because we are driven by other matters. I have been to Northern Ireland. I have met the women who have suffered incalculable harm and damage as a result of the law in Northern Ireland. It is an absolute outrage that that has occurred, and it is down to this Parliament to make sure that matters are fixed so that women are treated with much more dignity in the future than they have been in the past.

--- Later in debate ---

[Karin Smyth]

We do not have time to debate this issue now, but it is a well-debated issue. However, of the people whom we are talking about, many of them do not choose for many reasons—that is their choice, in my view; the hon. Lady and I disagree about that—to continue a pregnancy, for whatever reason. Of course, what this process catches—it is why it is cruel and barbaric—is also those women who are desperate to have a family, but their child is going to die. They are carrying back those foetal remains in the most barbaric of circumstances. Nobody had concern for those women. In conclusion—

[Carla Lockhart]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Karin Smyth]

I will finish; I need to finish now. Practical steps are needed. In Britain, for example, there are many good examples of third-sector provision of sexual health services. I have pressed the Minister on this issue before. We need to learn the lessons about sexual health services from the rest of Britain. For over 20 years, we have been commissioning third-sector providers to run our sexual health services in Britain and I think that Northern Ireland deserves that quality of service.

I echo the points made by the right hon. Member for Basingstoke, because the CEDAW recommendations do not just apply to abortion; they apply to sexual health services and education, particularly for young people, in general. When we hear so much currently about violence against women and girls, and the prevalence of pornography and so on in images for young people and how young people are targeted, there is real and deep concern about education provision for young people in Northern Ireland, and how they will understand their own sexual health, and how we ensure that they have a good attitude to sexual health and relationships. That is more crucial now after the pandemic than it was before, and these regulations also allow us to do that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir John Hayes]

The Minister says that, but it is clear from reading the regulations that, in certain circumstances, abortion can take place up to birth and that the 1967 Act’s insistence on two medical practitioners authorising abortion will not necessarily apply in Northern Ireland. I regard both those things as a more permissive application of the law than the one that pertains.

The 1967 Act may well be applied in theory more than in practice—I should not want to comment on that—but at the very least the risk of the more permissive regime that my hon. Friend the Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge described concerns the people of Northern Ireland, who fear that what is imposed on them might not only go against the expressed will of the people, but be altogether worse than that.

The hon. Member for Walthamstow made it perfectly clear that the essence of the argument used when the law was passed was that as there was no Assembly we had to act. She argued:

“I understand that, if it was not for the fact that we do not have an Assembly, this would absolutely not be the right way forward”.—[Official Report, 9 July 2019; Vol. 663, c. 183.]

That is what she said, with not a great deal of elegance; none the less, her point is made: it would absolutely “not be the right way forward.”

If it was “not the right way forward”, why on earth have we continued to pursue this path? When the Assembly was reformed, with a new Government, we had an opportunity to think again. It would not have been a huge step, given that the Assembly had the chance to vote on the matter. It has all the appearance of the Government dictating their will and of Parliament insisting that devolution counts only when the devolved Assemblies agree with people here. That is not something that you, Mr Hosie, I nor any democrat in this place could possibly sanction.

We must think too about the consequences for the Union and the continuing pertinence and relevance of devolution. If people in Northern Ireland come to believe what I have suggested—that their right to self-government is condoned by a Parliament that is so arrogant that it says that when they do not agree with the prevailing view here their rights can be torn away from them—how can they possibly continue to believe in the settlement or, indeed, even in the Union?

I was recently contacted by a clergyman from County Fermanagh, who decried the regulations as the final nail in the coffin of devolution. Indeed, an open letter was sent to the Prime Minister from 250 church leaders opposing today’s proposals. On at least four occasions, we have actively ignored the expressed will of Northern Ireland’s representatives on a matter of great importance to many in the Province. First, as has been noted, on 19 July 100% of Northern Ireland Members who take their seats voted against the process that resulted in section 9—a Northern Ireland-only provision on a devolved matter. Let me repeat that: a Northern Ireland-only provision on a devolved matter—a matter expressly devolved to Northern Ireland, yet it was imposed despite that opposition from Members who hold a specific mandate to represent the people there. At that moment we told the people of Northern Ireland that the voices of those elected to represent them would be ignored, and their history and deeply held views on this matter of conscience disregarded. By extension, we told the people of Northern Ireland that their opinion did not matter.

Secondly, we ignored the voice of the people of Northern Ireland in the consultation on the 2020 regulations, in which 79% of participants said they did not want the measure to proceed—seventy-nine per cent. is an even greater percentage than I managed to secure of the vote in South Holland and The Deepings—not much greater, but somewhat.

Thirdly, we ignored the voices of the people of Northern Ireland when we insisted on welcoming the restoration of the Northern Ireland Assembly while simultaneously ignoring its clear vote last year to reject the 2020 regulations. We now seek to forsake them again by forgoing further public consultation on the new regulations, at a time when the Assembly is working as intended, providing extensive and conscientious scrutiny of an imposed policy of the utmost sensitivity and profound local concern.

[Carla Lockhart]

I noted this with regard to my own speech but did not reference it. If the Committee was forcing a devolved issue on Scotland or Wales, would Members in this place agree to it? I think back to two examples. In 1957, Westminster voted to impose the flooding of the Tryweryn valley in Wales—

[The Chair]

Order. I have allowed the hon. Lady lots of leeway, and although some of this does touch on constitutional issues, the 1957 flooding in Wales is outwith the scope of the debate.

[Carla Lockhart]

Thank you, Mr Hosie. My point is that Welsh MPs voted against that, but the Government forced it through, which was recently described as “shameful”.

The same applies with the poll tax in Scotland, about which David Cameron apologised in 2006. One would hope that the lesson had been learned about not forcing things on the devolved Administrations, because that undermines and damages the Union. Therein lies my broad point.

[Sir John Hayes]

That is true, and the Committee that considered this issue before this Committee said that it was unprecedented in respect not only of Northern Ireland, but of any of the devolved nations. The decision that this Committee looks set to take—I will not put it more strongly than that—in supporting the regulations is so exceptional as to be noteworthy, as I described, and the hon. Lady has amplified.

It has been acknowledged that these issues understandably give rise to strong views, but on a matter as sensitive as this what is happening is particularly reprehensible. It would be reprehensible on a constitutional basis, regardless of the issue, but on a matter that causes such grave concern in Northern Ireland it is all the more so.

Today’s regulations are the continuation of a process that has fallen far short of the standards to which we as legislators should hold ourselves. I am not for one minute suggesting that people in Scotland and Wales think as the people of Northern Ireland do concerning abortion, but the precedents flowing from the way in which we are treating Northern Ireland with respect to the sustainability of the current devolution settlement across our kingdom are obvious.

Do not tell me that this is a matter of the sovereignty of Parliament, which we have heard suggested once or twice. Parliament has been sovereign since 1707. The fact that it can do certain things does not mean that it must do all things or should even do those things that it can. Parliament is sovereign by way of our constitution. By that constitution, it constrains itself by convention, and there are few more important conventions than upholding the Union and the Acts of Parliament that underpin it.

I recommend our Attorney General’s views on judicial activism and the creeping role of the Supreme Court in making public policy. If those views are not sufficiently persuasive, I recommend the views of the former Supreme Court judge, Lord Sumption, who has been clear that democratic legitimacy relies on the judiciary knowing what its constraints should be.

Northern Ireland

Carla Lockhart Excerpts

Tuesday 13th April 2021 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

My hon. Friend is right about the multifaceted situation. There is work that we have to do. We have touched on integrated education. We also have to ensure that there is a stronger and more connected relationship in some communities with the police and political parties in Northern Ireland—across the communities. That has come through very clearly in the engagement that I have had—not just in the last few days, but over a period of time—with people across various community and civic groups. As I said earlier, we will of course look for an appropriate time for a future meeting of the BIIGC, particularly in the light of the redevelopment and strengthening of the bilateral relationship between ourselves and the Irish Government now that we have left the EU.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP) [V]]

May I say at the outset that my thoughts and prayers are with the officers injured in recent days? Although all right-minded people will condemn any violence or threat of violence in Northern Ireland—now and in the past—does the Secretary of State accept that the anger in the Unionist community goes far beyond those who have taken to the streets in recent days? Will he take any opportunity to point out to his Irish or European colleagues, whose belligerent approach has exacerbated the difficulties, that the rigorous implementation of the protocol is not only inconsistent with the Belfast agreement—it is also, even before it has been implemented in full, causing societal difficulties in Northern Ireland? Will he also confirm that, with or without necessary flexibility being shown by the European Commission, the Government will fulfil the Prime Minister’s assurance in December 2019 that there would be “no checks” on goods going from Northern Ireland to GB or from GB to Northern Ireland?

[Brandon Lewis]

The hon. Lady has strongly and passionately outlined the sense of frustration and tension in Northern Ireland. I have talked to businesses, and whether somebody is nationalist or Unionist, they have seen an impact from the outworkings of the protocol, such as some of the issues that we saw earlier this year. We are working with the business community and civic society across the whole community of Northern Ireland to find sensible solutions.

We would like to work on this with our European partners, but the hon. Lady is right that the actions that we saw, particularly those around article 16, had an acute impact on the sense of frustration, tension and anger across the Unionist community. Thankfully—she is absolutely right about this and we need to be clear about it—the vast majority of people who have that anger are expressing it in the right way: through their politicians, to move things forward in a democratic sense, with dialogue; and through peaceful protests. That is absolutely right. We defend their right to do that and we will continue to engage on that. As she rightly says, that does not at any point ever excuse violence; we need to be very clear about that. We are determined to work through these issues and ensure that the protocol can work for everybody in a sense that is pragmatic and flexible, with free-flowing trade for GB into NI.

Abortion in Northern Ireland

Carla Lockhart Excerpts

Thursday 25th March 2021 Commons Chamber

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP) (Urgent Question)]

To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the provision of abortion in Northern Ireland.

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Brandon Lewis)]

On Monday we made the Abortion (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2021, and we laid them before Parliament on Tuesday. We have taken that important step because women and girls are still unable to access high-quality abortion and post-abortion care in Northern Ireland, in all the circumstances that they are entitled to under the law made by Parliament in the absence of the Northern Ireland Executive, and reconfirmed in the regulations laid last March.

This is about ensuring compliance with the legal duties that Parliament imposed on me in mid-2019. The legal duties on me as Secretary of State are clear: I must ensure that the recommendations in a specific report by the Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women are implemented in Northern Ireland. We are not seeking to open the Abortion (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2020, which were approved by a significant majority in Parliament last year. Those regulations delivered a CEDAW-compliant legal framework, ensuring that the health and safety of women and girls, and clarity and certainty for the healthcare profession, remains paramount, while also remaining sensitive to the circumstances in Northern Ireland.

This is not about new laws; this is about ensuring that the existing law is acted on and delivered. As I am sure many right hon. and hon. Members will agree, at the heart of this matter are women and girls who have been, and continue to be, denied the same rights as women in the rest of the UK. Women and girls are entitled to safe, local healthcare. Indeed, during the pandemic, that has been even more crucial. The law changed more than a year ago, and abortion services should now be available as a healthcare service in Northern Ireland, so that women and girls can safely access local services. This is not a new issue or a surprise for the Executive.

Following the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019 receiving Royal Assent and section 9 duties coming into effect, we engaged with all Northern Ireland parties on this matter, and we continue to engage. We have always sought to deliver in a way that respects the devolution settlement, by putting in place a legal framework, and recognising that healthcare is devolved and therefore service provision should be delivered and overseen locally by the Department of Health, as well as by health bodies with the relevant legal powers, policy and operational expertise to do so.

We are disappointed by the continuing failure of the Department of Health and the Executive to commission abortion services that are consistent with the regulations, despite having extensively engaged on this issue for more than a year. I recognise that local interim service provision has been established from April last year, resulting in more than 1,100 procedures being accessed locally. I put on record my thanks to those medical professionals who have done what they can to ensure that women and girls have had some local access to services in Northern Ireland to date, and to those organisations that have supported that work. Looking ahead, I want to be clear: our strong preference is, and remains, for the Minister of Health and his Department to take responsibility for upholding these rights, commissioning services, and delivering on what the law now clearly allows.

[Carla Lockhart]

Thank you for granting this urgent question, Mr Speaker. Will the Secretary of State confirm to the House that paragraphs 85 and 86 of the CEDAW report are not legally binding on the United Kingdom, and do not constitute international obligations, as confirmed in the explanatory notes to the 2021 regulations, therefore undermining the whole premise for forcing a change in Northern Ireland’s abortion law in 2019? Can the Secretary of State also confirm that according to the devolution settlement established by the Belfast agreement, access to abortion services is a devolved issue and this action represents a breach of the Belfast agreement? Furthermore, can he confirm that his sole legal basis for intervention in this area is section 9 of the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019, and that during the passage of that Bill, which was opposed by every Northern Ireland MP who took their seat, it was made clear that the only reason Parliament was interfering in this issue was that there was no sitting Assembly at that time?

Will the Secretary of State explain why he has chosen to take action to use his powers in relation to abortion under section 9 but has failed to act in his duties in relation to the Executive’s failure to introduce payments for victims, under section 10 of the same Act? I know that the Secretary of State shares my support for the Union, but does he not understand that at the heart of the devolution settlement must be a respect for areas that have been determined to be for the devolved authorities? There is still time for him to think again before he takes action that will undermine and further destabilise the devolved institutions. It is time for the Government to recognise the error of their ways, repeal section 9 and restore Northern Ireland’s life-affirming laws.

[Brandon Lewis]

I recognise the hon. Lady’s consistent position on this, the strength of feeling on this issue and the contributions she has made in previous debates and conversations in this House, and indeed in the conversations she has had with me and with the Minister of State, my hon. Friend the Member for Worcester (Mr Walker).

It is important to be clear that Parliament stepped in. Parliament placed me under this legal obligation during a period of no functioning devolved Government in Northern Ireland. Even though the Executive and the Assembly have now been in place for more than a year, those legal duties do not fall, and have not fallen, away.

I appreciate the points the hon. Lady made about comparisons with payments to victims, but I should point out that that matter is being progressed by the Executive; it is being delivered on, that scheme will open shortly and victims will be paid. I share the frustration of a number of Members in this House that the Department of Finance and the Executive have not yet allocated the moneys that the Department of Justice needs to move forward with that, and I hope that they will move on with that. However, that scheme is actually being progressed by the Executive, and the victims will be able to apply shortly.

We have been clear, and we have conveyed the message to the Health Minister and his Department throughout, that it is crucial that abortion, as a fundamental healthcare service, is delivered and overseen locally by the Department of Health. That ensures that it is delivered in a sustainable way and becomes embedded in the health and social care system in Northern Ireland in the long term.

I fully appreciate that abortion is an extremely emotive subject, but we must not lose sight of the women and girls in Northern Ireland who are absolutely at the heart of this matter. It is unacceptable that there are women and girls in part of the UK who cannot access these fundamental rights, as they can elsewhere in the UK. Even though the law was changed some 12 months ago, services have not been commissioned yet, and that leaves many women and girls in vulnerable positions.

I have spoken to many women and healthcare professionals in Northern Ireland, and some of their experiences are truly harrowing. Too many women and girls are still having to travel to other parts of the UK—to mainland Great Britain—to access this care. One story was of a much-wanted pregnancy where, sadly, doctors informed the mother that the baby would not survive outside the womb. This woman had to travel to London, without her network of family support, to access healthcare. She described to me a harrowing ordeal, where she was unable to travel back on a flight to her home because of complications and bleeding. She was stranded in London, alone, grieving and in pain. I have been informed of two other women who have attempted suicide in the past year after their flights were cancelled and so they were unable to travel to England for proper care.

The distress and unacceptable circumstances that women and girls continue to face at a time when local access should be readily available, given that the law changed more than a year ago, is unacceptable. It is only right that women and girls in Northern Ireland are able to make individual informed decisions with proper patient care, the provision of information and support from medical professionals, based on their own health and wider circumstances—similar to women and girls living elsewhere in the United Kingdom. We have used every opportunity and avenue to encourage progress and offer our support over the past year. That is why I am so disappointed that we have reached this impasse.

We take this step now to further demonstrate our commitment to ensuring that women and girls can safely access services in Northern Ireland. Our priority is to ensure that the Department of Health takes responsibility for commissioning full services, consistent with the conditions set out in the Abortion (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2020. That is why we are moving forward in this way. While Parliament considers the regulations, we will continue to engage with the Minister of Health and the Executive to try to find a way forward over the coming weeks before any direction is given.

Northern Ireland Protocol

Carla Lockhart Excerpts

Wednesday 10th March 2021 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

The short answer is yes, absolutely. My right hon. Friend makes a powerful point. Northern Ireland is an integral part of the United Kingdom. The economic flows around the United Kingdom are obviously important to the whole of the United Kingdom. The United Kingdom has the strength it has because of all the parts of the UK: England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. I have to say—I know he agrees with me on this; it is something he rightly feels passionate about—that the United Kingdom is stronger because Northern Ireland is in it.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP) [V]]

Last Friday, the Government announced some temporary—I stress the word temporary—operational measures, one of which lifted the ludicrous ban on bulbs and vegetables grown in British soil being sent from GB to NI if they still have soil attached. Does the Secretary of State agree that there was never any rational basis for the ban and that with or without European Commission agreement the Government will maintain the ability to move such products from GB to Northern Ireland not only now but in the future? Our businesses need and deserve a cast-iron guarantee.

[Brandon Lewis]

The hon. Lady makes a very important point. She is absolutely right: businesses want certainty. They want guarantees going forward. We took the decision last week to extend some of the grace periods. She is correct that this is temporary. It is temporary because we are committed to delivering on our obligations in a pragmatic and sensible way for the people and businesses of Northern Ireland. That is why it is important we use the grace period to work with the EU to get permanent solutions to ensure that those kinds of products can continue to flow in the way that they should be able to, the way they have, and the way that the Command Paper and the protocol always envisaged they would.

Oral Answers to Questions

Carla Lockhart Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd March 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on his last-minute lobbying. He has only a few minutes to wait before he may hear something to his advantage.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP) [V]]

Prime Minister, in an interview with Sophy Ridge broadcast on 8 December 2019, you pledged that there would be no checks on goods going from NI to GB or from GB to NI. While this has proven more challenging to deliver in practice, would you wish to take this opportunity to encourage Ministers in Northern Ireland to do all they can—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Unfortunately, I am not responsible and “you” is not something that we should be using.

[Carla Lockhart]

My humble apologies. Can the Prime Minister make this aspiration a reality and ensure that they act in accordance with section 46 of the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020, which stresses the importance of facilitating the free flow of goods between Great Britain and Northern Ireland?

[The Prime Minister]

Yes, I certainly can do that. As I said in answer to the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson), we leave nothing off the table in order to make sure that we get that done. There is unfettered access NI-GB and GB-NI.

Oral Answers to Questions

Carla Lockhart Excerpts

Wednesday 30th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Walker]

I think that we all recognise the importance of this issue. I understand that sexual and reproductive health clinics are providing some services consistent with the regulations. I am pleased that an interim solution has been reached on the ground in Northern Ireland so that the health and safety of women and girls can be protected by accessing services locally. We all want the Executive to be able to move forward with formal commissioning of further services, and we will continue to support them in doing that.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

The Minister will be aware that tomorrow marks the commencement of Down’s Syndrome Awareness Month, when we celebrate Down’s syndrome, raise awareness and promote inclusivity within our society. With that in mind, what assessment has he made of the impact of the Government’s decision to allow for termination to birth for diagnosis of Down’s syndrome in Northern Ireland? Does he agree that many people see this as disability discrimination within the womb that would otherwise be illegal outside of the womb?

[Mr Walker]

Let me first join the hon. Lady in supporting all those living with and supporting people with Down’s syndrome. There is absolutely no intention whatsoever for any form of discrimination. As I repeatedly made clear in the debate on the regulations, they do not list specific conditions but rather ensure that we have complied with what CEDAW—the convention on the elimination of all forms of discrimination against women—requires. These are complex decisions. It is only right that women can make individual, informed decisions, following medical assessments, clear provision of information and proper support from medical professionals. That support should be there in cases where they choose to take their pregnancies to term even in cases of severe foetal impairment. We will continue to support the Department of Health and the Executive to deliver on this issue.

Abortion (Northern Ireland) (No. 2) Regulations 2020

Carla Lockhart Excerpts

Monday 8th June 2020 General Committees

[Mr Walker]

The hon. Gentleman is perhaps referring to litigation that is under way, which I of course cannot comment on. What I can say is that we gave very careful consideration, both in the consultation itself and in the follow-up to it, to all aspects of this legislation. We decided to follow the approach of GB law by not specifying particular conditions, but being clear that the approach to severe foetal impairment has to be for the individual woman, in consultation with medical professionals. We think that is the right approach; it is the approach established elsewhere in the UK, and indeed in many other jurisdictions.

The CEDAW report does not recommend or mandate specifics of how access should be provided. In particular, it is silent on issues such as gestational time limits for legal abortion, which it leaves open to the state to determine. The key requirement is to ensure access to services for women and girls in the circumstances I have set out, and abortions should be delivered as part of sexual and reproductive health services.

We recognise that this is a sensitive and personal issue for many people. We have heard many differing views about abortion in this House and the other place over the past 12 months, including in the debates on the reports under the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019. I extend my thanks to all hon. Members who have engaged with me over recent months in discussions about these regulations, and have contributed views and shared insights from the wider engagement that they have been having with a range of constituents and other stakeholders.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

The Minister refers to the fact that a number of people have contributed to this debate, but does he not accept that the Northern Ireland Assembly—the place where this should be debated and decided upon—was unable to contribute to the debate and articulate its view? It voted on Thursday. Why has this Committee not taken cognisance of that vote?

[Mr Walker]

I respect the hon. Lady and the position from which she is arguing, but the Northern Ireland Assembly has had many opportunities to take forward these issues and provide a framework that would address the requirements of CEDAW, and it has not taken them. As she refers to the debate, I reiterate what I said in response to the urgent question last week: the Northern Ireland Assembly chose to vote on one aspect of these regulations and said that it did not like it. It did not debate the full details of the regulations themselves, and it did not provide a way forward that is compliant with CEDAW. I am very happy for it to debate these issues and take them forward, but it must do so in a way that is CEDAW compliant. It has every right to do that and reform these regulations, should it choose to do so in a way that is CEDAW compliant.

I appreciate that this is an issue on which views are deeply held, and I respect the fact that people coming at it from either side of the argument are doing so with the best interests of others in mind. I have no doubt that the arguments that we will hear today, across the whole spectrum of opinion on the subject, come from the heart and will be well informed. The starting point for the framework was that, as a result of the repeal of sections 58 and 59 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861, from 22 October 2019 carrying out an abortion is no longer a criminal offence, except for late-term abortion, to which the offence of destroying a child capable of being born alive would still apply.

In relation to complying with the statutory duty on the Government, our overarching policy aims were to ensure that the framework protects and promotes the health and safety of women and girls, provides clarity and certainty for the medical profession, and is responsive and sensitive to the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly being restored from January, where our legal obligation remained to act on this issue.

Towards the end of last year, we publicly consulted on the proposals for the new legislative framework. The consultation gave people and organisations in Northern Ireland an opportunity to provide input and views on how we could best deliver an abortion framework consistent with our statutory duty. We were clear in that consultation that this is not about whether the Government should deliver on our statutory duty, but rather about how we can most effectively deliver a framework as required.

The Government have engaged with a range of stakeholders in Northern Ireland during this process and in recent months, including political parties, medical professionals, women’s groups, abortion service providers, trade unions, civil society organisations, individuals with lived experience and church groups. We listened to feedback expressed in the consultation process and through various engagements, and we have responded accordingly. We have sought to balance the range of views against our statutory duty, and to take pragmatic decisions informed by evidence.

Many stakeholders have welcomed the regulations, including the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission. It is our firm view that the regulations provide a new legislative framework that is operationally sound, works best for Northern Ireland and delivers on the Government’s statutory duty.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Walker]

As I said, we set out in our response to the consultation the detail of how each of the decisions in this process was reached. We recognise that the situation ante this regulation in Northern Ireland was that the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019 had already removed the criminal sanctions, so we were under an obligation to create a framework, then reimpose criminal sanctions outside of that framework. That is the way in which we have addressed this.

We are clear that this is a situation in which CEDAW requires us to ensure that women and girls cannot be prosecuted for these regulations, and the regulations should not have—as, unfortunately, it was clear from some of the consultation responses, the criminal law previously did have in Northern Ireland—a chilling effect on availability, nor erect any barriers to access.

[Carla Lockhart]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Walker]

I will make a little bit of progress and allow the hon. Lady to come in before the end. Access to abortion services in Northern Ireland is now a matter for the Northern Ireland Department of Health, as well as the Health and Social Care Board and the Health and Social Care Trust, to take forward, as a new health service.

We continue to have full respect for the devolution settlement, recognising that health is a devolved matter, and to that extent have ensured that, where possible and practical, the regulations can be developed over time, in a way that works best for Northern Ireland by Northern Ireland. For example, the approval power for the Northern Ireland Department of Health to approve new locations in which services can be provided will allow it to respond to service needs and development over time, as the services are commissioned and embedded into health and social care settings in Northern Ireland.

Some interim service provision on the ground in Northern Ireland has now commenced, with early medical abortion services being provided as part of the existing sexual and reproductive health services in the Belfast, northern and western trust areas. This is to ensure access on the ground during covid-19, before fuller services have been commissioned by the Health and Social Care Board.

Of course, abortion remains a devolved issue in Northern Ireland going forward. That means that the Assembly is able to legislate further on abortion, subject to the usual Assembly and other procedures, including compliance with the European Convention on Human Rights. The UK Government will continue to ensure that we abide by our domestic and international legal obligations. The Government stand ready to provide whatever support and guidance we can both to the Northern Ireland Minister of Health and the Department of Health, to assist them in progressing work to set up abortion services in line with our new legislative framework.

As set out in our response to the consultation, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland has written to the relevant Northern Ireland Ministers to ensure the implementation of all the recommendations under paragraphs 85 and 86 of the CEDAW report, and the Northern Ireland Office will continue to work closely with the Department of Health and other Northern Ireland Departments in continuing to progress this work.

I hope that the Committee will support these regulations. We believe that they will fully deliver on the requirements placed on the Government by section 9 of the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019 and allow us to move forward in a way that protects the safety of women and girls in Northern Ireland, will remove over time the need for travel for women and girls facing extremely difficult circumstances, and provide certainty and a clear framework for medical professionals. I commend these regulations to the Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Miller]

My hon. Friend is right. The Select Committee report, just a year ago, found that there was a postcode lottery for provision and showed that lack of access to abortion in Northern Ireland drove many women to have to seek abortions in England, without the support of family and friends. There were some traumatic stories that were completely unacceptable.

[Carla Lockhart]

The right hon. Lady makes reference to the people who have spoken out and raised their concerns about their own personal situations. Will she also take note of Heidi Crowter, the Down’s syndrome campaigner, who has spoken out loudly and clearly, and said that this Government make her feel that she should not exist?

[Mrs Miller]

I pay tribute to the hon. Lady. She has spoken extremely eloquently, not just here today but in the Chamber, on that issue. She is right that there is a massive tension when it comes to abortion and what constitutes the grounds for it. She is right to speak out about that. Many people would agree with her that Down’s syndrome is not grounds for abortion, but I am sure, like me, she has met women who have been forced to take a pregnancy to full term, in the certain knowledge that their baby will die either before or shortly after birth. That is not right and cannot be countenanced. In making sure that individuals with Down’s syndrome have a right to life, we do not have to put in the way a prohibition on abortion for those who really require it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Carla Lockhart]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship today, Sir David.

I believe that the crux of this issue is one of respect: respect for devolution; respect for the devolved Assembly; respect for the will of the people of Northern Ireland; and respect for those with disabilities. I respect this place; I respect its role and its authority. As MPs, we should stand up and defend the authority of this place to rule on all aspects over which it has competence.

My colleagues in the NI Assembly ask for the same. Last week, 75 out of 90 Members of the Legislative Assembly indicated that they did not support abortion for non-fatal disabilities, yet this Government proceed. To borrow a phrase, those 75 MLAs want to “take back control” of abortion law. They want to defend the life of the unborn with a disability. Indeed, an open letter that Baroness O’Loan and I launched on Friday, to present to the Government, has more than 12,000 signatures already. That shows the depth of feeling in Northern Ireland.

In the time available, I will focus my remarks on regulation 7; as drafted, it legalises discrimination. While regulation 4 protects viable babies between 24 weeks’ gestation and full term from abortion, regulation 7 provides no such protection to viable babies of exactly the same age who have a non-fatal disability. So, this legislation provides less protection for a viable disabled baby than it provides for a baby who is the same age and not disabled.

The NI Assembly vote was inspired by a remarkable woman, Heidi Crowter, who lives with Down’s syndrome.

She has expressed how the regulations

“tell people like me that we should not exist.”

Last week, I asked the Minister what his message was for Heidi. I hope he will address that in his closing remarks. I also hope that we will take a moment to appreciate the distress that Heidi has expressed, and that of every parent with a disabled child in hon. Members’ constituencies. What message are we sending to those loving parents? The moral argument for rejecting regulation 7 is clear. I have heard no compelling argument otherwise.

I will now consider the legal competence of regulation 7. The UN convention on the rights of persons with disabilities prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability, including the most serious form of disability discrimination that we are concerned with today—foetal disability discrimination. In 2018, Lord Kerr in his Supreme Court judgment said:

“UNCRPD is based on the premise that if abortion is permissible, there should be no discrimination on the basis that the foetus, because of a defect, will result in a child being born with a physical or mental disability.”

The Attorney General of Northern Ireland has pointed out that section 9(9) of the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019 states that the powers of the Secretary of State to make the regulations are subject to the same constraints that apply to the Northern Ireland Assembly. Section 6(2) of the Northern Ireland Act 1998 says that the Assembly is not competent to make any law that is contrary to EU law. The UNCRPD has been ratified by the EU, so is part of EU law.

Finally, and in some ways most fundamentally, the discriminatory way in which regulation 7 deals with disability suffers from the fatal flaw that it directly contradicts the recommendation of paragraph 85 of the CEDAW report, which section 9 of the 2019 Act requires the Secretary of State to engage with. Paragraph 85 is clear that changes to access to abortion provision in respect to disability must be made “without perpetuating stereotypes”, yet the manner in which the legislation has been framed directly and expressly does what Parliament requires it should not do.

I recognise the importance of women carrying babies with non-fatal disabilities from 24 weeks and the need for them to receive meaningful support, as required by paragraph 85. Specifically, it states that in a case of severe foetal impairment, there should be

“appropriate and ongoing support, social and financial, for women who decide to carry such pregnancies to term.”Nothing is forthcoming in the legislation, however, to help women who find themselves in such circumstances. When challenged on that by the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, the Northern Ireland Office said that that has not been specifically excluded from the regulations because

“a woman and her child would be eligible for the normal disability and/or carer’s benefits and no additional legislation is required.”

Again, what does that say or do to help parents who want to choose life? It is totally inadequate and wholly unacceptable.

It is clear that although the Government have used paragraph 85 as their excuse for the manner in which they have drafted regulation 7, they have not had paragraph 85 in mind in the actual drafting of the legislation, but rather the Abortion Act 1967, which Northern Ireland rejected. As a result, we have 100,000 lives alive today, as opposed to the 9 million babies aborted here in this province. Their objective has been to make Northern Ireland abortion law with respect to disability compliant with the 1967 Act, rather than paragraph 85, as Parliament is required to do.

When Parliament voted for paragraph 85, it voted clearly against disability discrimination and demonstrated that it was 2019 and not 1990. What it has been given in the regulations, however, is quite the contrary. I cannot imagine that, having voted against disability discrimination in 2019, Parliament will want to affirm discrimination now.

Heidi Crowter asked me to quote two things to the Committee, which I proudly do for her. The first is:

“I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made”,

which is a Bible verse that she holds dear, as I do. Secondly, a famous singer sings that,

“You’re beautiful just the way you are”.

Regardless of what hon. Members think about any other aspect of the regulations, regulation 7 means that they are not fit for purpose. As drafted, they are an embarrassing liability. For that reason alone, these unamendable regulations must be rejected in their current form. Time should be allowed for the Northern Ireland Assembly to legislate, knowing the will of the people in Northern Ireland.

The Minister referred to the fact that the Northern Ireland Assembly had not adhered to CEDAW. The report for CEDAW was posted in, I think, July 2019. The Northern Ireland Assembly was in suspension at that time, so it would therefore find it difficult to be in compliance with CEDAW. This is just the tip of the iceberg and, due to time constraints, I am unable to touch on the fact that this legislation permits sex selection. It also gives a free-fire zone for abortion for any reason up to 12 weeks. It allows for coercive abortions and goes far beyond the will of the people of Northern Ireland.

On Thursday past, the Minister used language such as “on balance”. There is nothing balanced about what the Government are doing. They are permitting the termination of lives, against the will of the Northern Ireland people. I would say that, on balance, the Government need to quickly recognise the errors of their way. Some 79% of the people of Northern Ireland who responded to the consultation on the regulations said no, they did not want a change in the legislation, and they wanted the Northern Ireland Assembly to act in this regard. The regulations will see the most liberal abortion laws foisted on the people of Northern Ireland. If the Government proceed, a Province that has been life affirming and values life will revert to a society that destroys life and terminates existence.

I ask the Committee to take note of the fact that both lives matter. We hear much about women’s health—as a woman, I agree that we need to adhere to women’s health and ensure that they have everything in place to assist them—but both lives matter; there is also a baby in the conversation. I call on hon. Members to hear the silent scream of the baby being terminated. I thank hon. Members for listening, and I appreciate the opportunity to speak on this issue.

[Stephen Farry]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir David. I rise to speak in favour of the regulations and to give an authentic Northern Ireland voice in support of the actions that Parliament has taken. In doing so, I thank all hon. Members who followed the leadership of the hon. Member for Walthamstow in passing the relevant clauses to the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019 in July last year, and I thank the Northern Ireland Office for its work in taking forward the regulations over the past year. Today they are part of the law, subject to the further confirmation of Parliament.

I recognise that there are many progressive voices in Northern Ireland who welcome the changes. I pay tribute not just to Sarah Ewart, whom I mentioned previously, but to many other campaigners who have been pushing for reform over the intervening decades, including through organisations such as Amnesty International and Alliance for Choice.

I am a former Member of the Northern Ireland Assembly, and it has always been a source of great frustration that the Assembly has been incapable of passing even the most modest reform to Northern Ireland’s abortion laws. People may reflect on the past with some degree of regret that opportunities were not taken and that there was a resulting need for Parliament to intervene. I was a member of the Assembly when the Act of Parliament was passed, and in no way, shape or form did I feel imposed on or overruled, or feel that my mandate had been unrecognised. Rather, I was pleased that someone was taking action to address the situation in my part of the United Kingdom, and that the rights of women were to be upheld properly. Parliament is for the UK as a whole, and there are responsibilities on the UK Government to ensure that all parts of the country follow and are in compliance with international human rights standards, including article 8 of the European convention on human rights, CEDAW and the recommendations of the committee more recently.

Hon. Members have referred to the fact that the Assembly voted the way it did last week, and I will make some references to that. First, it is important to bear it in mind that this is an issue of rights, and rights are not addressed through majoritarian processes. There are duties on legislators to follow the rule of law and human rights standards, and to ensure that things are in place in that regard. Public opinion in Northern Ireland has changed dramatically in recent years, particularly among young people, and opinion polls have shown that there is majority support for a range of reforms to be taken forward in Northern Ireland, so I do not recognise that Parliament is acting contrary to the wishes of the majority of the people of Northern Ireland. In any event, it still has an overarching duty to ensure that the law is human rights-compliant.

If we are to be truthful about the situation in Northern Ireland, it was not the case that abortions were not taking place. Our abortion issue was being exported to other parts of the UK, creating a situation of huge trauma for the women involved, and also creating difficulties for people in more challenging socioeconomic situations and for women in situations of domestic violence and coercive control, who were not able to avail themselves of their rights in the same way that women in other parts of the UK were. I therefore welcome the actions that are to be taken forward.

It is important to recognise that the context of Northern Ireland will still be very difficult. We still have a considerable degree of controversy that Members will no doubt express today. Sadly, we will hear more about it in due course. There is a risk that some of the controversies around the guidance will create a chill factor and make it difficult for healthcare professionals to fulfil their responsibilities. Indeed, we could see a situation in which women are denied their lawful rights in terms of reproductive healthcare, so it is important that we provide a stability of certainty for professionals.

I also recognise that the regulations re-introduce a risk of criminal sanctions against healthcare workers. The hon. Member for Bristol South has already alluded to that. Given the ongoing stigma in that regard, I encourage the Minister to do what he can to give further reassurance that the reinstatement of criminal sanctions cannot be used to prosecute healthcare workers who act in accordance with criminal guidance and who also act in good faith.

I want to put on the record concerns around exclusion zones. I appreciate that the Minister has made it clear that that will be under continued review. Indeed, a wider debate is happening across the UK, but it is important to put it in context. Given the degree of stigma and controversy in Northern Ireland and that there have been considerable problems historically, and indeed today, around the harassment of women who try to access their healthcare rights, it is important that a reconsideration is given due attention as quickly as possible.

There are two important challenges. Before we come to that, it is important that we try to put the issue to bed. Parliament has acted and the clauses in the Offences Against the Person Act 1861 have been repealed. There is a duty in primary legislation to have regulations. Where those regulations are voted down, that duty still continues and further regulations need to be put in place and need to be CEDAW-compliant. That duty is there and continues to exist. It is important that we try to recognise that this debate is now settled, and the same applies to the Northern Ireland Assembly, which has the ability to pass its own measures, but again, it is important that those are CEDAW-compliant. That must be our benchmark.

[Carla Lockhart]

The hon. Gentleman and I will differ on this issue. For the benefit of his constituents, will he make it clear whether he supports abortion for Down’s syndrome up to birth—yes or no?

[Stephen Farry]

I support CEDAW-compliant regulations. It is important that we do not place this in a pejorative way around certain circumstances. Every situation and crisis pregnancy that a woman experiences is a very personal circumstance. The decisions and choices that that woman has to make are often very difficult. We have to give respect and support in that regard.

In that context, I shall make my two final points. The first is that there is a need for the Northern Ireland Office to continue to have a dialogue with the Department of Health and the wider Northern Ireland Executive about ensuring that there is the full provision of services in Northern Ireland. So far, we have seen piecemeal provision; that needs to go further. I regret to report that the Minister of Health in Northern Ireland, rather than treating this as an operational healthcare matter, has referred it back to the Northern Ireland Executive, which is a political cauldron. That will create difficulties in terms of getting decisions to proceed with the full commissioning of services. It is important that the Northern Ireland Office remains fully abreast of that situation and continues to follow up on the encouragement that it has given to date to ensure that those measures are put in place.

It is also important to ensure that there is a proper roll-out of information and guidance, including on websites, for the public to understand what the service situation is, but also to ensure that that is passed down throughout healthcare staff, because there is ongoing confusion. In that context, we could see a situation in which there are rights on paper but not in practice.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir John Hayes]

That is a question for the Minister, not me, because he will have those figures to hand, but he was the one who made great play of the consultation, not I. He cited the consultation in his opening remarks. Indeed, he celebrated the fact that the Government had consulted widely. I was simply clarifying that in that wide consultation the overwhelming majority of people who responded were not in favour of what we are being asked to support today.

There have been other tests of opinion and other polls. The University of Liverpool released a poll showing that only 5% of Northern Irish voters wanted abortion to be provided up to 24 weeks, which is what the regulations do. The strength of feeling on the issue transcends the usual divides in Northern Ireland. According to polling, 58% of Sinn Féin voters and 54% of Democratic Unionist party voters believe that abortion should be allowed only if the mother’s life is at risk.

I could go on about polling, but I will simply make this point: it would be easy to assume that women took a different view from men, or that the young took a different view from those who have lived longer. In truth, women are less supportive of the regulations than men, and the young are less supportive than their parents and grandparents. In Northern Ireland, the regulations are certainly unwanted. That was illustrated last week, as has been said, when the Northern Ireland Assembly voted to oppose the regulations, passing a motion that states:

“That this Assembly welcomes the important intervention of disability campaigner Heidi Crowter and rejects the imposition of abortion legislation which extends to all non-fatal disabilities, including Down’s syndrome.”

The regulations are unwise. Seventy-nine of the 90 MLAs in the Northern Ireland Assembly voted against abortion on the grounds of non-fatal abnormalities. Despite that, the regulations permit abortion up to birth on the grounds that the unborn child has been diagnosed with Down’s syndrome, a cleft lip or palate, or a club foot. If we vote the regulations through, what does that say to the people in Northern Ireland about how we view their opinion? Even more importantly, what does it say to those disabled people in that part of our kingdom, indeed in the whole of our kingdom, about how we regard them? I say it would broadcast loudly and clearly that we do not regard them very highly at all.

Furthermore, the regulations go much further than the requirements set out in the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019 and further than the provisions that apply in England and Wales. Specifically, they allow for abortion on demand without certification through to 12 weeks, which will allow sex-selective abortion to be available during that period. It is the first time that no ground for abortion has been allowed up to 12 weeks. Some will say, “Well, that won’t happen. That’s alarmist. Why on earth would people abort a child on the basis of its gender?” I do not share that uncynical view, because we know there are cases where people have done so, and there are places in the world where that is common. We do not want it happening here, and anything that risks it should, frankly, send a shiver down the spine of any member of the Committee.

Indeed, the Government have curiously—I would go so far as to say remarkably—chosen to impose on Northern Ireland a more permissive regime than the one that applies in England and Wales. I do not have time, and you would not permit me, Sir David, to go through all the areas in which the regulations are more liberal than the regime that applies to the rest of the kingdom. That raises the issue of consistency, certainty and clarity—all used as arguments in favour of the regulations by my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke, who has now left. How bizarre—[Interruption.] My right hon. Friend is back; her ears must have been burning. If it is clarity, certainty and consistency that we want, why on earth would we want to impose a different regime in Northern Ireland from that which prevails elsewhere?

Yet there is a substantially different regulatory approach to abortions proposed for Northern Ireland from that in England and Wales. The Northern Ireland regime will allow all GP surgeries to be approved locations to do abortions, allowing this serious procedure to take place in a dramatically increased number of locations compared with England and Wales.

[Carla Lockhart]

Does the right hon. Gentleman also agree that the legislation has no reference to inspections of places where abortions can take place, which leaves difficulty in managing where they can and will take place?

[Sir John Hayes]

That is true, too. It is also true that whereas an abortion can be carried out in England and Wales only by a doctor, the regulations extend that. The issue of home abortions, with the woman taking a pill—there has been quite a lot of publicity in the national press in the last few weeks about how that can go wrong—is also catalysed by the proposed changes.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ian Paisley]

It is a pleasure to serve under your experienced chairmanship, Sir David.

This is an issue that is vastly controversial and provokes much thought; in some quarters it provokes concern, anger and frustration, and in other quarters it provokes much happiness. Those are the differences we are in. This divides parties, it divides families and it divides homes. I think everyone recognises the controversial and difficult nature of this.

However, hon. Members should be under no illusion whatsoever: today’s proceedings, when they are voted for—there is no doubt that they will be passed, given the Government’s majority—will not stop the confusion. The promise that this will end the confusion over regulations and all the rest of it in Northern Ireland is complete and total nonsense, as the Chairman made clear when he was addressing the issues to do with points of order. He said he was in the dark about how we got here.

If a Chairman as esteemed as you, Sir David, is in the dark about how the Government got themselves into a position where they are pushing through important regulations about criminality, social and constitutional change and the right to life of the pre-born in a two-and-a-half hour, crammed-in session, in an Upper Committee Corridor in this House, when we were only allowed 17 minutes on the Floor of the main Chamber last year in a previous Parliament—not this Parliament—to deal with the amendments that came from the House of Lords, if that is the fact of how we are going to deal with legislation that affects Northern Ireland in such a massive way, there is zero respect being paid not only to hon. Members from Northern Ireland, whatever their different opinions, but to women in Northern Ireland. This is not the way we should be legislating for anyone or any matter in that regard.

That is why I reiterate the points I made earlier and agree wholeheartedly with the speech of the right hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings, who said that the way this has been carried out is an affront to the people of Northern Ireland. The hon. Members who are privileged to vote on this matter today, while the vast majority of Members from Northern Ireland are completely denied a vote on the issue, will have to ask themselves whether they are content that, by the end of these proceedings, they will have helped to pass the most permissive abortion regulations in the whole of the United Kingdom.

The abortion regulations that are being passed for Northern Ireland, as we have already heard in the to and fro, do not mirror what occurs in this part of the United Kingdom, but are completely different. Hon. Members have spoken in the past in this House about having to ensure that English laws represent English votes, and we have English votes for English laws procedures in place to do that. Northern Ireland Members have a right to ask, “Will this House make laws that reflect the character of Northern Ireland?”

The strength of this Union is that it is made up of very different component parts: peoples who have different views, peoples who are divided in many ways. The House should at least respect those differences. If it is good enough to have English votes for English laws, this House should recognise that the changes to be brought about should at least reflect the views of the people in Northern Ireland. As I have already indicated, the regulations are not a mirror image of the law in Great Britain. I hope that I am not being unfair to the Minister, who is an absolute gentleman and always deals with us courteously, but it is wrong to help Members through the Lobbies to vote for this legislation by suggesting to them that, “It mirrors what happens in the rest of the UK, so it is okay—we can push it on through and those Paddys will just have to accept it because it is the same as in the rest of the United Kingdom.”

The regulations do not mirror what happens in the rest of the United Kingdom in four key and distinct ways. The rules and regulations that would be introduced are much more permissive in terms of the gestation time limits that are allowed for abortion. They are more permissive on the issue of sex selection, which is outlawed in the United Kingdom and cannot now be protected in my part of the United Kingdom because no reason has to be given for a termination. They are more permissive in allowing abortion and termination on the basis of disability; and they are more permissive on the social reasons that have to be given, but not the medical reasons on the question of mental wellbeing.

The regulations do not mirror the law in the rest of the United Kingdom. People have talked about having two doctors’ opinions; zero doctors’ opinions are required in Northern Ireland by the regulations. Medical opinion can come from a midwife, a nurse, or anyone with a medical qualification, but the regulations do not specify that a doctor’s opinion is required in Northern Ireland. The 1967 abortion law was brought in on the basis that a doctor’s opinion was key to allowing the decision, and that has been completely done away with. On that key point, the suggestion that the regulations mirror GB is completely and totally erroneous.

Under the regulations, in Northern Ireland no reason has to be given for the termination to take place up to 12 weeks’ into gestation—no reason whatever. That is not the case in the rest of the United Kingdom, where reasons have to be given. In Northern Ireland, that opens the door to sex selection; it opens the door to other social reasons and to other issues that do not form any part of the regulations and practice in the rest of the United Kingdom. That goes well beyond even what CEDAW requires. CEDAW made it clear that there was a deficiency in the Northern Ireland regulations as they stood, because of rape, incest and fatal foetal abnormality issues. That no reason has to be given means that the laws in Northern Ireland would be at variance with and completely different from what happens in the rest of the United Kingdom. That does not mirror the United Kingdom.

On the highest sanction for illegal termination, the practitioner may decide that they are or are not satisfied with the reasons that are given, but are wrong in coming to that decision. If that person is eventually brought to court, the highest sanction that that person will face is a level 5 fine, meaning that, for something that is criminal law in the rest of the United Kingdom, a person can buy their way out of that problem with less than £5,000. That is the fact. The regulations do not mirror those here, where, if someone breaks that law, they face anywhere between five years to life in prison. That really makes a significant change in terms of how the regulations would be interpreted and applied in Northern Ireland. Even the Republic of Ireland, which has changed its abortion regulations, recognised that the punishment had to be by way of imprisonment of up to 14 years. Allowing people to buy their way out of that problem does not mirror what happens in the rest of the UK.



As I have already said, sex-selection terminations will be permitted, as it is not an offence to terminate for any reason. The regulations fail to mention sex selection. The Government have had ample opportunity to include sex selection and make it clear that it is not allowed, but they have been silent. As the Government have failed to mention it, how will the laws that outlaw sex selection in GB extend protections to unborn life in Northern Ireland? Maybe someone does not want a girl or a boy and then decided, “That’s a good enough reason.” It is a travesty, and it is wrong. It does not mirror what happens in the rest of the United Kingdom.

[Carla Lockhart]

My hon. Friend makes a valid point about sex selection. Does he agree that it is normally girls who are aborted? We talk so much about women’s health and women’s rights, yet it is girls who are aborted in the womb.

[Ian Paisley]

My hon. Friend makes the point exceedingly well, and we should listen to her words. This legislation does not protect the rights of women and girls, or of the unborn. It dismisses their rights—that is the fact.

The Attorney General for Northern Ireland has claimed that the Secretary of State has exceeded his authority. That is why the regulations, if and when they are passed, will unfortunately run into further controversy—no doubt they will be challenged. They will not bring an end to a difficult argument or suddenly solve it. We are in the process of dealing with difficult issues all the time, and the suggestion that the regulations end a difficult problem is just complete and total nonsense. If it was so easy, most hon. Members would welcome that. However, in claiming that the Secretary of State has exceeded his authority, the Attorney General for Northern Ireland made the following comments:

“It is doubtful that the legislation gives adequate ECHR protections to the rights of those opposed to these regulations, whether on conscience or philosophical grounds.”

He went on to say:

“It is inappropriate for the provision. In light of the political context that now exists in Northern Ireland, these provisions are actually lawful.”

Let me just complete the quotation. He goes on to say:

“It is disproportionate, contrary to article 9 of ECHR as well as article 8, to require those who undertake ancillary, administrative or managerial tasks to act contrary to their conscience.”