Baby Loss

Caroline Nokes Excerpts

Monday 13th October 2025 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

I call Andy MacNae, who will speak for about 15 minutes.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

Order. I will now call the next co-sponsor of the debate. After she has spoken, there will be a five-minute time limit.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Sharon Hodgson (Washington and Gateshead South) (Lab)]

I am very glad to be able to take part in this very moving debate and to follow so many excellent speeches as we once again mark Baby Loss Awareness Week, not least on behalf of myself and my story, and that of my beautiful baby Lucy, who I tragically lost back in 1998, but also on behalf of all the MPs in this place, women and men, who are not yet ready or able to stand and tell their story, as indeed I was not for so many years.

For almost 20 years I never spoke of my loss, and I never told anyone who did not know me back when it had happened, until I helped to set up the all-party parliamentary group on baby loss back in 2016, 11 years after I was first elected. That was along with a cross-party group of MPs, all of whom are no longer in this House, although Baroness Prentis of Banbury is now in the other place. I told them my story in the Tea Room, and I could point to the table that we sat around to share our stories through floods of tears. It was the first time I had spoken about it in any detail since it had happened two decades earlier. Baby loss was, and I think it may still be to a certain extent, the last great taboo that a lot of parents have to navigate their way through.

Not long thereafter, I was approached by one of the officers of the new all-party group regarding the private Member’s Bill introduced by the former Member for East Worthing and Shoreham, Tim Loughton. As those Members who were around at the time will remember, part of that Bill covered baby loss and the lack of any recognition for stillborn babies born before 24 weeks—what are, in law, still called late-term miscarriages. His private Member’s Bill tried to address this through what would become known as baby loss certificates. He had been approached by his constituents Hayley and Frazer, who gave birth to their son Samuel at 19 weeks. Tragically, he was stillborn, and they had been horrified to receive no official recognition and—even worse—to learn that their child was entered in the official records as a miscarriage, as indeed my Lucy was at 23 weeks and four days, just a few days short of the legal definition for recognition.

Tim also cited another tragic case, that of twins born either side of that 24-week threshold. One thankfully survived and was given a birth certificate, but the other—born just a day or so earlier on the wrong side of 24 weeks—tragically did not survive, received no official recognition, and was entered in the official records as a miscarriage. This felt grossly wrong to all those parents and to Tim, as it did to me and my husband when it happened to us. Tim set about trying to change the law, hence approaching me to see whether I would be brave enough to stand here—on the Opposition Benches as I was then—and tell my story, as it was so relevant to the case he was trying to make. Somehow, I managed to do it—it is all down on record for anyone to read or watch, so I will not repeat it today—and it involved an awful lot of tears. Those who have spoken today have somehow managed not to be in floods of tears. I did it, as lots of Members have done today, and I commend them all for sharing their heartbreaking stories. We should remember, though, that for every Member who bears witness in this Chamber, there are no doubt many more who are not yet ready to do so.

I was very proud of myself back in February 2018 to give mine and Lucy’s story in detail in that private Member’s Bill debate, and for my experience and Lucy’s all-too-brief life to perhaps have made a difference in helping to change the law and bring about the baby loss certificates, which are now much treasured by so many parents. It is something I am still very proud of.

After that debate and all the publicity it garnered, the right hon. Member for Godalming and Ash (Sir Jeremy Hunt)—who was Health Secretary at the time, and who I pay tribute to for everything he did—set up an official Department of Health expert working group, which Tim and I sat on, to consult on what a change in the law would look like and how the baby loss certificates would work. I was very glad when in February 2024, just before the election, the last Government announced the roll-out of the first ever baby loss certificates.

As welcome as those certificates are, I worry that there are still some unintended consequences, as there often are when first enacting new policies. I have been contacted by Catherine, whose much-wanted baby died at 12 weeks. Through the grieving process, she found comfort in knowing that she would get a baby loss certificate for her son Matthew. However, when she applied for that certificate, she found that she was not able to add her partner’s name to it, as he was registered with a GP on the Scottish side of the border. While relationships across the English-Scottish border are not common, neither are they unheard of. Catherine asked me to ask the Secretary of State—I am very happy that he is in the Chamber in person tonight—what steps could be taken to enable both parents’ names to be included on baby loss certificates where those parents are registered with GPs in different countries in the UK. I am sure that what I have described is an anomaly, and I hope the Secretary of State will address it in his response.

Due to time, I will leave my remarks there, Madam Deputy Speaker. I thank you for your grace.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

I appreciate the hon. Lady finishing her remarks. Members will have noticed that I indulged the hon. Lady, but unfortunately after the next speaker I will have to reduce the time limit to four minutes so that I can get all Members in.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

Order. I ask hon. Members to take their lead from the hon. Member for Bassetlaw (Jo White) so that I can get everybody in. If they kept their speeches to three minutes, that would be very helpful.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

Order. There is now a formal three-minute time limit.

--- Later in debate ---

[Michael Payne (Gedling) (Lab)]

I rise, in Baby Loss Awareness Week, to pay tribute to the far too many families in Gedling and Nottinghamshire who have suffered the devastating loss of their babies in circumstances that were entirely avoidable. They placed their trust in a system that should have protected them, and that system failed them.

The Ockenden review of maternity services in Nottingham is now supporting 2,500 families who have been affected by neonatal deaths, injuries, stillbirths and maternity deaths. Many of them were failed by the NMC, failed by the GMC, failed by the CQC and failed by our NHS. Regulation must be overhauled, and accountability must improve.

The mothers and fathers who have come forward in Gedling and Nottinghamshire have shown extraordinary dignity, courage and perseverance in the face of heartbreak that most of us can barely begin to comprehend. Yet even in the face of unspeakable loss, each and every family I have met in Gedling and Nottinghamshire who have lost a child or suffered harm during birth have reminded me that light always shines brightest in the darkest places. In the depths of their grief, their pursuit of truth and change honours their children’s memory and stands as a beacon of tremendous humanity and hope.

I want to take a moment to pay a special tribute to the incredible charities, volunteers and support organisations who walk alongside bereaved families day in, day out. They bring comfort where it is needed most, and we all owe them a tremendous debt of gratitude.

In speaking of courage and compassion, I also want to take a moment to thank my friend and neighbour, the Member of Parliament for Sherwood Forest, Michelle Welsh. Long before she entered this place, Michelle walked side by side with Nottinghamshire families through years of anguish and struggle, standing shoulder to shoulder with them when few others would. Just 37 days ago, she suffered her own loss with the passing of her beloved dad, who taught her to fight always against injustice, wherever she found it. Just days after losing her dad, she was back in Parliament, meeting bereaved maternity families. In thanking Michelle for her leadership today—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

Order. The hon. Gentleman will know that we do not refer to Members by name in this place. That is the third time he has referred to the hon. Member for Sherwood Forest by her name.

[Michael Payne]

My apologies, Madam Deputy Speaker.

In thanking my hon. Friend the Member for Sherwood Forest (Michelle Welsh) for her leadership today, I want to say that her dad would have been so incredibly proud to sit in the Gallery today to see his little girl in this Chamber using the privilege of her platform to fight for those who have been failed and suffered the most unimaginable loss.

I also pay tribute to the families who have campaigned for years for change and justice. We owe them far more than sympathy. We owe them justice, and we owe them truth.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. The hon. Gentleman has had more than three minutes, and I want the Front Benchers to have some time to respond. I call Dave Robertson.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sean Woodcock (Banbury) (Lab)]

It is a real privilege to have the opportunity to speak in this debate, particularly after so many powerful and profound speeches and interventions from Members across the House. I want to share the testimony of a constituent who has endured an experience that affects many families, yet receives very little attention: hypoxic-ischemic encephalopathy, or HIE. Her son survived a HIE event during his birth. HIE is a brain injury caused by a lack of oxygen or blood flow, which can lead to developmental delays, intellectual and physical disabilities and—tragically—in one in five cases, death. Some of these complications can remain hidden until school age.

My constituent had never heard of HIE at the time, nor had I prior to her contacting me, but it is an all-too-common condition that affects three to four births out of every 1,000. In her son’s case, it resulted in mild cerebral palsy. She was supported by a wonderful charity called Peeps, which highlights that families affected by HIE often feel that they do not belong in a baby loss space. Many of those families experience birth trauma, PTSD and complicated grief. While charities such as Peeps offer support to anybody affected, NHS mental health support can often be restricted to just the mother. This leaves fathers and partners—who are also deeply affected—to cope alone. Support must and should be for the whole family.

Peeps also emphasises the significant gaps in long-term support, especially for families whose children survive but face lifelong, severe disabilities. They are left to navigate complex needs for years after the initial intensive care ends. The trauma is compounded for families whose event may have been avoidable. A study in Finland between 2005 and 2024 suggested that a fifth of all such cases could have been prevented, or at least could have benefited from preventive measures. This compounds the trauma of affected families and underscores the importance of absolute honesty and systemic learning in our NHS services.

Additionally, HIE is not always recorded consistently in NHS systems or statistics, making it harder to advocate for policy change and obscuring potential disparities in outcomes, which we know exist for stillbirths and neonatal deaths. We must listen to brave parents such as my constituent and fantastic charities such as Peeps and ensure that HIE is no longer misunderstood or unheard of in conversations about baby loss. We owe these families recognition, compassionate care, and a commitment to address the lack of consistent data that makes it so hard for them to advocate for change.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

Order. That brings us to the Front-Bench contributions, which will perhaps be in the region of eight minutes each.

[Alison Bennett (Mid Sussex) (LD)]

The hon. Members for Rossendale and Darwen (Andy MacNae) and for Sherwood Forest (Michelle Welsh) and the right hon. Member for Godalming and Ash (Sir Jeremy Hunt) must be thanked, not just for securing this debate to mark Baby Loss Awareness Week, but for their tireless advocacy to improve maternity services across the United Kingdom—work that they have been carrying out for many years.

The pain of baby loss is multifaceted. It involves not only the unimaginable grief that accompanies losing a baby, but the emotional and psychological suffering that comes with facing the prospect of a life without your child—a future completely different from the one you had hoped for. Losing a baby can be loud, fast and chaotic, but it can also happen quietly—almost unnoticeably. Some parents arrive home from the hospital to a wardrobe full of baby clothes and piles of newborn toys, but an empty cot. Other expectant mothers may wake up in the morning excited to be another day closer to their baby’s arrival, only to find out that it was not meant to be.

Half of adults in the UK said that they or someone they know had experienced pregnancy or baby loss. According to Sands, every day in the UK 13 babies die shortly before, during or soon after birth. These families, as we have heard tonight, have to try to pick up the pieces, maintain their relationships, work and continue with daily commitments, all while tackling the emotional and often physical trauma of their experiences. They often walk that path alone, feeling like there is nobody they can speak to about their indescribable grief, or that they should not speak about it, as though they themselves have somehow failed. That is not the case, and no woman should have to suffer in silence.

In the case of my constituents, Hannah and Simon, not only did they have to come to terms with the fact that they would not be taking their baby boy, Austin, home from the hospital, but they had to face the reality that this tragedy was avoidable and that their baby would have survived, had the trust recognised and responded to concerns identified in the foetal and maternal monitoring. Hannah and Simon are not the only ones. Connecting with other parents in Sussex resulted in them hearing stories from other families whose experiences were concerningly similar to their own.

Between 2019 and 2023, the University Hospitals Sussex NHS Foundation Trust paid £58 million in compensation for 60 medical negligence claims related to maternity and obstetric care. That is the second-highest amount of compensation and the third-highest number of claims across all NHS trusts in England. That, and Hannah and Simon’s story, points to a larger systemic problem at the heart of maternity care. It was clear then, as it is now, that successive Governments have been asleep at the wheel on maternity care, and it is the families at the heart of it who pay the price—families such as Hannah and Simon’s. Their baby Austin would have been starting school next year if things had been different, and their daughter, just three when her little brother died,

“should not have to continually ask us why her friends got to bring their siblings home, and she had to say goodbye instead.”

That family, like too many across the country, deserved better. Now, they themselves are calling for change so that no one else misses out on a lifetime of memories with their child as a result of avoidable mistakes.

As part of her inquiry into maternity care, Donna Ockenden provided a blueprint—a starting point from which we could put an end to this scandal, make maternity care fit for purpose and put an end to these unnecessary deaths. However, not only have the nationally applicable, immediate and essential actions of the Ockenden report not all been implemented, but the Government have dropped the requirement for every ICB to have a women’s health hub, and they have announced cuts to the national service development funding for maternity services from £95 million in 2024-25 to just £2 million the following year.

Is it any wonder, therefore, that the UK is underperforming compared with other OECD countries on infant and newborn mortality, or that, according to a Care Quality Commission report in September 2024, 65% of units are not safe for women to give birth in? We want our country to become the safest place in the world to have a baby, but that can only be achieved if accountability is taken for these failings, lessons are learned, and concrete steps are taken by the Government to put an end to this national scandal.

We have heard from a number of Members this evening about the impacts of deprivation and ethnicity on outcomes for maternity and for babies. The colour of someone’s skin, their bank balance or where they live should not be deciding factors in whether they and their baby live or die. Quite simply, maternity care should not be a lottery.

I very much welcome the Secretary of State’s presence this evening, and I endorse the comments made by the right hon. Member for Melton and Syston (Edward Argar) and my hon. Friends the Members for Horsham (John Milne) and for Chichester (Jess Brown-Fuller), who said that families who have lost babies through medical negligence need to be taken with the Government on this journey towards reviews. I think that the Sussex families would be furious with me this evening if I did not say to the Secretary of State that they are not happy with the way in which the reviews announced in July are going so far, so I urge him to do everything in his power to listen to the families and take them on that journey together.

Let me pose a question to the Secretary of State on behalf of Hannah and Simon. These Sussex families have waited over a year for the Government to appoint Donna Ockenden, the one person with a proven record of exposing failings and driving improvement. Thus far, their patience has been repaid with delay, confusion and avoidance. When will the Government act to stop these preventable deaths by appointing Donna Ockenden to lead the Sussex review, and by confronting what has become a national shame for our country’s children with a full public inquiry?

My hon. Friend the Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Bobby Dean) spoke movingly about his and his wife’s experience of miscarriage, and I endorse his call for mental health support following every miscarriage, not just after three.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

Order. I am sure that the hon. Lady will want to conclude her remarks very quickly.

[Alison Bennett]

The theme of this year’s Baby Loss Awareness Week is “Together, we care”, and we do care. We care about all kinds of baby loss, and we care about babies like Austin. Hannah told me:

“We lost an entire lifetime. Our son never had the chance to grow up, to take his first steps, to speak his first words, to make friends”—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. The hon. Lady must have misunderstood what I meant by “quickly”.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Wes Streeting)]

I thank all right hon. and hon. Members who have taken part in this extremely powerful debate. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Rossendale and Darwen (Andy MacNae), the right hon. Member for Godalming and Ash (Sir Jeremy Hunt) and my hon. Friend the Member for Sherwood Forest (Michelle Welsh) for securing the debate, and the Backbench Business Committee for granting it.

Before I get into the substance of the debate, since this is Baby Loss Awareness Week, I want to put on record my thanks to the all-party parliamentary groups on baby loss, on maternity and on patient safety for their work in raising awareness; and charities such as Tommy’s, Sands, the Miscarriage Association and Bliss, which give bereaved families a voice and incredible support, and which deserve special recognition. I am extremely grateful to Members from across the House who have named local charities, run by those—often with lived experience—who play such a crucial role in improving services, so that others do not have to experience the torture that they have experienced.

It is such organisations that drove the adoption of baby loss certificates, introduced by the last Government and expanded by this one. I, too, thank Tim Loughton for his work, and my hon. Friend the Member for Washington and Gateshead South (Mrs Hodgson) for her leadership in this space. Not everyone will choose to have a certificate, but the option is now there for all parents who have experienced losing a pregnancy to have that loss recognised officially. I know that this has meant so much to those who have taken up that option, and to those who are providing the service, particularly staff in the NHS Business Services Authority, who have shared with Ministers their pride—many of them having that experience of loss themselves—of being part of the solution. I am of course delighted that the Government in Wales have also taken up this option.

Given the time available, there is simply no way of doing justice to the contributions that we have heard from Members across the House and the stories that they have shared with us. However, if there is one thing I have learned in my time as Secretary of State working on these issues it is that words will not do any justice to these families. What people want to see is action, and what they need to experience is justice.

I really do want to say a heartfelt thank you to Members across the House who have had the courage to share their personal stories. In particular, my hon. Friend the Member for Rossendale and Darwen, by talking about his daughter Mallorie, has given a voice to many fathers and partners who too often feel airbrushed from the conversation and absent from consideration. I think it is very poignant that he opened the debate for us this evening.

This is no exaggeration, but my hon. Friend the Member for Gedling (Michael Payne) talked about the leadership of my hon. Friend the Member for Sherwood Forest, and it is truly extraordinary that, in the aftermath of such an awful bereavement with the loss of her father, she was back to work in a matter of days, so that she could be there with families in Nottingham to support them in their ongoing campaign for justice.

Of course, my hon. Friends the Members for Sheffield Hallam (Olivia Blake) and for Clapham and Brixton Hill (Bell Ribeiro-Addy) and the hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Bobby Dean) all shared their stories, because others who have spoken previously had the courage to share their own experience. I pay particular tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Washington and Gateshead South. I have certainly never forgotten her speech about Lucy, and she really has blazed a trail for others to follow.

I can honestly say that, in the last year, the most difficult meetings have been those with victims of the NHS. I think we should pause for a moment just to reflect on how outrageous that sentence is—victims of the national health service. They are people who, in their moments of greatest vulnerability, placed themselves and their lives and the lives of their unborn children in the hands of others, but who instead of finding themselves supported and cared for, found themselves victims. It is truly shocking.

I have heard dozens of stories, each unique, each told with heartbreaking clarity and each with a common theme: that what should have been a moment of joy became a terrifying ordeal. I have had complete strangers describe to me, a Government Minister, their experience of injuries endured in childbirth. Women have had to share with me, a total stranger, what it has done to their sex lives and what it has done to their continence. I have had fathers share with me for the first time their attempts at suicide, and the impact that their loss and grief has had on their mental health. We also heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Erewash (Adam Thompson) of the harm done to young people, in this case young Ryan, who was with us in the Gallery today. I have seen photographs of parents’ children. I have seen the ashes of their children in the tiniest boxes. I have seen more courage than I could ever imagine mustering if I had to walk a day in their shoes.

Each time they have met me—each time they have met anyone—they have had to relive the trauma inflicted on them by the state. Perhaps what is most shocking of all is that if there is another theme that ties these families together, it is the fact that they have had to battle time and again for truth, for justice, for answers, for accountability and for change, so that other families do not have to experience what they are going through.

I cannot thank enough the Members on both sides of the House who have placed on record not just the stories, but the names of the children we have lost, so that they can stand on the record there for all time, a stain on the history of our national health service, but also a galvanising call to action. I hope there is some small comfort for families who have been with us in the Chamber this evening to hear the debate, or who have watched online, to know that Parliament is listening, that we are learning, and that, crucially, we are acting.

Many Members have remarked on my personal responsibility and the responsibility that weighs heavily on my shoulders to get this right. We have been joined by some of the Nottingham families this evening. When I have met them, they have arranged themselves around a horseshoe table in date order, with those whose experience goes back furthest sat to my left, and those most recently sat to my right. I go back to Nottingham regularly and honestly dread the prospect of going to another meeting with another family arriving on my right-hand side at that end of the table with another story to tell, but one that has happened on my watch.

We know how serious these situations and challenges are. We have an implicit message from the system that tells women not to have a miscarriage at the weekend. We have women who are classed as having a normal birth still leaving traumatised and scarred. We still use terms such as “normal” to describe a particular type of birth for ideological reasons. All these things need to change.

We heard from my hon. Friends the Members for Clapham and Brixton Hill, for North West Leicestershire (Amanda Hack) and for Wolverhampton North East (Mrs Brackenridge) the shockingly wide race and class inequalities. We should not kid ourselves that these are statistical anomalies or just institutional failures, because I have heard time and again direct first-hand experiences of overt racism: black women told that it was assumed that that they would be “a strong black woman” and so would not need so much pain relief; and examples of Asian mothers described as divas. Perhaps most shockingly of all, taking a step back and looking at the overall picture, we have had the normalisation of deaths of women and babies. We have levels of loss and death in this country that are simply not tolerated in others. We have a shocking culture of cover-up and backside covering, as we have heard across the Chamber this evening.

Recognising that I cannot respond to every individual point that has been made in the debate, I will undertake to write to Members across the House with detailed answers to the questions they posed. I want to conclude by making this point, which is about trust. We are setting out the rapid investigation led by Baroness Amos because I need to act urgently on the systemic challenges. I want to acknowledge openly and publicly that not all families are with me on this; many have concerns, and they wonder whether this will be just another review that sits on the shelf. I want to conclude by assuring those families and this House of my personal commitment to ensuring that that is not the case, and not just through leading the taskforce that will implement the recommendations myself, but by giving a promise to this House and to those families, in the spirit set out by my hon. Friend the Member for Sherwood Forest, that grief must be the engine of change. The stories I have heard from those families at first hand will be the steel in my spine to deliver the change they need.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

I call Andy MacNae to wind up.