President Trump: State Visit

Charles Walker Excerpts

Monday 20th February 2017 Westminster Hall

[Mr Charles Walker (in the Chair)]

This is a very over-subscribed debate. If all hon. Members stick to five minutes and do not take too many, if any, interventions, everybody should get in.

I remind those in the Public Gallery that this is a Chamber of the House of Commons. By all means listen and observe, but if there is any off-stage noise, I will suspend the sitting and clear the Public Gallery.

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[Mr Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley) (Con)]

The hon. Gentleman says that the Queen has been put in a difficult position. I know what a great fan of the monarch he is—indeed, he probably has weekly chats with her. What did she actually say to him to lead him to believe that she found the situation difficult?

[Mr Charles Walker (in the Chair)]

Order. We are not dragging the monarch into this debate. All right, colleagues?

[Paul Flynn]

I am well aware of the Standing Orders on this matter, but I speak as someone with enormous regard for the Queen. She is my inspiration; she is my example. She is working at an age that is eight years beyond my age, and I will certainly not be so wimpish as to stand down while she continues with her heroic work at her age.

Our main concern is that we are in this position of surrealism, of an Orwellian world that is unfolding before us, where the theme that has been put forward by Trump is that lies are the truth, good is bad, war is peace and fantasy is fact. We see that with the figure of the Trump Big Brother, who is there, ever-present seven days a week and 24 hours a day, preaching from his one source of news—the only voice of truth.

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[Mr Rees-Mogg]

On a point of order, Mr Walker. I do not think it is in order to refer to pimping out our sovereign, even if someone is quoting a journalist, however distinguished.

[Mr Charles Walker (in the Chair)]

I am sure that is not what the hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn) meant. What he did mean, when he talked to me a few moments ago, was that he would speak for only 15 minutes. Can we get to the wind-up please, Mr Flynn?

[Paul Flynn]

Yes, fine, Mr Walker. The wind-up is a simple one. This is a great chance to be here and to start off this debate, but I know there are many people who also have contributions to make on the subject.

We are in a position unlike any faced by any previous Parliament, whereby a person of a unique personality is running the United States. There are great dangers in attempting to give him the best accolade we can offer anyone—a state visit—which, as I have said, has been offered only twice before. That would be terribly wrong, because it would make it appear that the British Parliament, the British nation and the British sovereign approve of the acts of Donald J. Trump.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Charles Walker (in the Chair)]

Order. I call Nigel Evans. There is a five-minute time limit.

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[Alex Salmond]

I have actually met Donald Trump more than once, which gives me an advantage over, I think, every other Member in the Chamber. I have also negotiated with Donald Trump, which perhaps gives me an additional advantage, to instruct the hon. Gentleman. We should remember that President Trump is not a stupid man. The belief that he has forgotten what the Prime Minister or her supporting staff said about him when he was a candidate is nonsensical, and the Foreign Secretary said he would not go to New York in case he was confused with him. To believe that Donald Trump has forgotten those things is to seriously underrate the man’s intelligence. To paraphrase P. G. Wodehouse, it is not difficult to tell the difference between a ray of sunshine and Donald Trump with a grievance. I know about that from my experience of the American President, which brings me to the act of stupidity involved in the invitation.

Even when people are in a weak negotiating position, as the UK is at the moment thanks to the nonsensical decision to invoke article 50 without having at least some idea of where the negotiations will end up—I see Brexiteers shaking their heads, but I was quoting almost exactly from the Vote Leave website, which said that doing that would be like putting a gun to our own head. Unfortunately, that is exactly what the Government have chosen to do. To put ourselves in a weak negotiating position and then advertise it so blatantly to President Trump, as the Prime Minister managed to do, is a recipe for total and utter disaster. From my experience of negotiating with Donald Trump, I can tell the hon. Gentleman that we should never, ever do it from a weak position, because the result will be total disaster.

Like the Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau is relatively new to his office, yet he has demonstrated how to pursue a business relationship while keeping Canada’s integrity intact. The Prime Minister should take note and rescind the state visit before any more embarrassment and division is caused in this country.

To allow this process to be the pretext for another assault on Mr Speaker—this has already been mentioned in the debate, Mr Walker—is beyond madness. This new gunpowder plot will fizzle out as surely as the last one did. What we should demand from Mr Speaker is fairness to all parts of the House, the ability for all people to be heard—

[Mr Charles Walker (in the Chair)]

Order. Mr Salmond, we are not having a debate about Mr Speaker, and that goes for all Members. You have made your point. Please return to the substance of the debate, which is Mr Trump’s visit.

[Alex Salmond]

Mr Walker, I was replying to a point that you allowed to be made in the debate earlier. I will simply state my opinion that parties in this House will not allow Mr Speaker to be removed on this issue. I think that is perfectly in order, sir.

On the point about debasing the shared values that we are meant to have with the United States of America—the point was well made by the hon. the Member for Newport West that in 30 days the President has managed to achieve a record low in the Gallup ratings—the United States of America has not been invited on a state visit. The state visit invitation is to President Trump the individual. To confuse the two is a serious mistake by hon. Members and others who support the offer. I speak from my experience of negotiating with the man in saying that to do so from a position of weakness will not result in a face-saving, life-saving augmented trade deal. It will be a route to and a recipe for total disaster for this country. The state visit invitation should be rescinded before any further damage is caused.

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Charles Walker (in the Chair)]

Order. A number of colleagues have intervened who have already spoken. I know that this is a debate, but if they desist from intervening, we may get everyone from their own parties in.