Charlie Dewhirst
Main Page: Charlie Dewhirst (Conservative - Bridlington and The Wolds)Department Debates - View all Charlie Dewhirst's debates with the HM Treasury
(1 day, 16 hours ago)
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Alex Ballinger (Halesowen) (Lab)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered gambling advertising.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mrs Harris, particularly as you have taken such an interest in gambling harm over many years. I am grateful to be able to open this debate on gambling advertising and its impact across the United Kingdom, and to be joined by Members such as my hon. Friend the Member for Worthing West (Dr Cooper), who is co-sponsoring the debate and who, like me, is a member of the all-party parliamentary group on gambling reform.
The interest in the debate reflects the growing concern in Parliament and beyond about the scale, reach and consequences of gambling advertising in the UK and about its growing impact on children and young people. This debate comes at an important moment. This week, the APPG and Peers for Gambling Reform released their report on gambling advertising, which brings together academic evidence, lived experience and policy analysis to make the case that our current system is not working.
Gambling advertising is everywhere: on our television screens, in our football stadiums, on local radio, on social media, where it is promoted by influencers, and on video games played by children. It is also increasingly sophisticated, targeted and personalised. Our APPG report shows that the industry now spends £2 billion a year on gambling advertising and marketing, in a deliberate and sustained effort to drive engagement, normalise gambling and grow the market, including by creating future generations of gamblers.
We must be honest about what that means: greater exposure leads to greater participation, and greater participation leads to more gambling harm. We have heard repeatedly—through research, from clinicians and, most importantly, from those with lived experience—that gambling advertising acts as a trigger. For those trying to stop gambling, it undermines their recovery.
Charlie Dewhirst (Bridlington and The Wolds) (Con)
The Government’s own gambling White Paper said there was no evidence of a causal link between gambling advertising and an increase in problem gambling. Does the hon. Gentleman accept that that is set out in the White Paper quite clearly?
Alex Ballinger
I will not accept that. Having met lots of people with lived experience of gambling and having seen the evidence in our report, I know there is a clear link between gambling advertising and halting the recovery of people with gambling addictions.
An argument often used by the industry is that more evidence is needed, but I will come later in my speech to why that is not a problem—it was not a barrier, for example, when we introduced restrictions on tobacco advertising several years ago.
For children and young people, the situation is even more concerning, because gambling advertising normalises gambling long before they are legally able to gamble. Our report highlights data from the Gambling Commission’s “Young People and Gambling” report, which found that 79% of children had seen gambling adverts or—64% of them on television, and 74% online. That is four out of five children in the country exposed to gambling advertising, which is more than the proportion of children who read for pleasure.
Charlie Dewhirst (Bridlington and The Wolds) (Con)
It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Harris. I congratulate the hon. Members for Halesowen (Alex Ballinger) and for Worthing West (Dr Cooper) on securing this important debate.
Sport is one of the UK’s soft power superpowers. Formula 1 is worth over £12 billion a year to our economy, supporting more than 6,000 jobs. Horseracing supports more than 85,000 British jobs and contributes over £4 billion to the economy. The Premier League adds a further £9.8 billion to the economy and supports over 100,000 jobs, those jobs contribute over £4 billion in tax annually. Sky Sports recently signed a £125 million five-year contract with the Professional Darts Corporation —double the previous contract—and we have seen a huge boost in that sport in the last decade or so, all underpinned by sponsorship from companies.
Alex Ballinger
The hon. Member talks about Formula 1, as well as other sports, but does he remember the rules that changed the tobacco sponsorship of Formula 1 and the strong resistance of that industry to those changes because of the arguments he is making right now? Does he also recognise that Formula 1 has become more successful after those changes?
Charlie Dewhirst
Over the decades, Formula 1 has always been a great British success story. The banning of tobacco ads in such a global sport was not necessarily such a problem, because its reach and ability to bring in advertising revenue from other industries was more than it was for, say, snooker or darts. The ban almost destroyed snooker, which had become heavily reliant on tobacco sponsorship. It took a number of years for it to increase those revenues again.
I will come on to the unregulated gambling market, because that is playing a part in some of these sports and it is really important that we cover that. We need to recognise that there is a particularly close link—a symbiotic relationship—between gambling and, for example, horseracing, particularly for the regulated sector and those British companies that we all know and see on our high street, so we must be careful.
Dr Beccy Cooper (Worthing West) (Lab)
I am listening to the hon. Member’s arguments with great interest. I want to be clear about the argument he is making. We all greatly value British sports, but if it is synonymous with issues that are causing harm to our children and our population, should we not move those sports forward without allowing that harm to occur?
Charlie Dewhirst
That is an excellent point; I will come on to some of the work that has already been done in that area. It is important that we do not just ban something and hope that will be a silver bullet—we do not know that it will. I worked in gambling 20-odd years ago for a company that pioneered new technology in the industry. As part of that we had to do a customer services role to give us experience talking to customers, to help us understand some of the challenges. It was around the birth of that time when companies started to be more responsible towards their customers.
A lot more progress has been made, and I agree that no gambling firm—regulated or unregulated—should be targeting children in their advertising, but we have to be careful not to just ban advertising without recognising that that could have severe impacts on certain sports. I know that the hon. Member for Halesowen does not want to take it away from horseracing and greyhound racing, but I would suggest that other, smaller sports also rely heavily on it and have a close relationship with the industry.
It is not bad to have that relationship; gambling is not an illegal activity. It is something that most people enjoy, and most people will not become problem gamblers. When we deal with problem gamblers, we need to look at how we can best protect and help those individuals.
Dr Cooper
I absolutely hear what the hon. Member is saying and I reiterate that great British sport is incredibly important. In terms of current regulation, does he agree that we are not regulating nearly enough and that we are therefore putting people who watch these sports and see ubiquitous gambling advertising in harm’s way?
Charlie Dewhirst
I think the industry is making good progress on this. It has certainly made a massive difference in recent decades, from where we have come to where we are now. As I said, and as I will go on to discuss further, there is a difference between the regulated market and the unregulated market. There are those companies that fall within the laws of this country and that are working hard to address some of these problems, and there are those that are not based in this country, over which we have no control. That is a serious problem.
Alex Ballinger
The hon. Member is making his point very well. He is talking about the unregulated market, which we also have real concerns about. Does he share my concern that some unregulated market advertising is being mixed with the regulated market advertising? Right now, we have premier league football clubs with unregulated front-of-shirt sponsors, and that should not be allowed.
Charlie Dewhirst
I could not agree with the hon. Member more. As a big football fan, this has been shocking for me. Growing up back in the ’90s, when Leeds United FC was last successful, what I would see on the front of a football shirt was a well-known brand, possibly British and possibly not. Looking at football shirts now, I often have no idea what the company is until I find out that it is, of course, an unregulated, foreign gambling site that is paying big money to the industry—I will share some figures on that in a minute. The Premier League has taken the right approach in banning those advertising deals from next season.
As I say, there is much we can do to work with the gambling sector in this country, but we also need to make sure that unregulated and illegal gambling firms do not have the ability to advertise to and target residents of this nation, because they are not regulated as they would be under UK law. We must also recognise the importance of preventing aggressive advertising towards vulnerable people and particularly children, as the hon. Member said in his opening remarks.
The balanced and evidence-led reforms made by the previous Government helped to strengthen protections, but there may be more to do. We can supplement the already-robust rules to ensure that we do more, but it is important that we do our very best to prevent children from being exposed in the way they might be at the moment. The hon. Member made an excellent point about the ways in which companies can dodge regulations, particularly those relating to football, where there has been a problem. The Premier League at least has recognised that and taken voluntary action to end it.
Dr Beccy Cooper
How successful does the hon. Gentleman think voluntary agreements have been? Given that the evidence suggests that we are one of the most unregulated countries in the world for gambling, does he not agree that more should be done through regulations that are not voluntary?
Charlie Dewhirst
I am not sure that we are necessarily the most unregulated country in the world when it comes to gambling. There are examples of other countries where gambling is completely banned, but they have an enormous black market, which obviously is totally unregulated and totally illegal, so no one is protected from anything. We need to be very wary of that happening here.
Charlie Dewhirst
The hon. Member makes a good point, but let us be quite clear that it is not some wild west out there. Gambling firms operate within quite a strict framework and take seriously their responsibilities to protect people as best they can.
Charlie Dewhirst
I would like to make a little bit of progress rather than just go back and forth with a Q&A.
We must recognise that betting and gaming is an entirely legitimate commercial practice for responsible gambling firms, as is advertising and sponsorship, but there are already alarming signs that businesses are facing difficulties in this area. The gambling sector is forecast to increase advertising by only 5% this year, which is a slowdown on last year’s 9% increase. Betting and gaming is declining as a share of advertising expenditure, as other sectors are expanding their advertising more rapidly.
Even more worrying is the growth of harmful and illegal gambling operators, the activities of which are unregulated both in the market in general and in gambling advertising in particular. Just a few years ago, licensed operators accounted for more than 80% of gambling advertising, but new analysis published this week by the global marketing intelligence firm WARC has shown that illegal operators now account for almost half of all gambling advertising. Within two years—by 2028—it is expected that they will account for the majority of advertising spend in the UK, overtaking regulated British-based operators.
I know that my hon. Friend understands this arena very well. My concern is that the unregulated black market for gambling is growing at a rapid rate—as he says, it accounts for over half of advertising. The focus on licensed, regulated gambling operators is surely going to squeeze them out of the market, meaning that the illegal market can boom, as we are seeing across the world.
Charlie Dewhirst
Absolutely; I could not agree more with my right hon. Friend. We have seen that trend not just in gambling but in tobacco. Taxation levels have become so high that they have created an enormous black market, which I believe has led to the Treasury losing about £6 billion in revenue. Any sector that is over-taxed or over-regulated will be replaced by a black market.
Alex Ballinger
I was not expecting to hear the hon. Member parroting big tobacco talking lines. Because of all the public health benefits and because of the reduced number of people dying from lung cancer, I think the public would be happy that the rate of smoking has reduced from 60% in the 1950s to 10%. Some 65% of people think children should not be exposed to gambling adverts at all. Does he share the public’s concern?
Charlie Dewhirst
I used an example of another sector to make a wider point that, if we over-tax or over-regulate anything, it will encourage the creation of a black market. There are various issues with that, whether for those exposed to the black market or for the Treasury, which might have concerns about the impact of a black market on its bottom line. It was a wider point about over-regulation and over-taxation, and there are number of examples of that.
I have already said that we should not allow gambling firms to target children in any way because they are not legally allowed to bet, and there has been progress. The reforms under the last Government were quite robust, and I always welcome ideas about how we can go further on that, but we should not necessarily go too far. Banning gambling advertising in sport, with the exception of horseracing and greyhound racing, feels excessive to me. There are other ways that we can address this.
We are removing advertising for regulated, licensed gambling. Illegal gambling is now so large globally that, if it were an economy, it would be smaller only than that of America and China—that is how big the gambling black market has got.
Charlie Dewhirst
My right hon. Friend makes an excellent point. The gambling black market is extraordinarily large globally; it is hugely significant. As I mentioned earlier, there are specific challenges elsewhere in the world where gambling is not allowed at all, but we all know that gambling exists in those countries at very significant levels. That is a matter for other nations to try to solve, but it is an example of how banning something does not stop it happening.
Order. Dr Beccy Cooper, you will be making a speech. There will be an appropriate time for you to make your points.
Charlie Dewhirst
Thank you, Mrs Harris.
I will put some numbers on my discussion of the value of regulated versus unregulated advertising. The regulated market is expected to decline by more than £107 million this year, but unregulated companies will increase their expenditure to £845 million this year, which is up 32%, and to £934 million by the end of 2028, which is another 10% rise. A significant proportion of that investment originates from overseas companies that are not paying British tax, not regulated by the British market and not subject to British laws.
It is not just about advertising. More advertising by unregulated and illegal gambling companies only drives people to the harmful, unregulated and untaxed black market. Stakes on the illegal market are already estimated to equate to £4.3 billion per year. A PwC report based on H2 Gambling Capital data shows that the size and growth of the UK’s unregulated market has increased in recent years, alongside the implementation of tighter regulations. In my opening, I mentioned that regular betting and gaming contributes £6.8 billion to our economy and generates £4 billion in taxes—£4 billion that the Treasury could potentially lose. The effects of that are self-evident.
There are other measures that are squeezing people. The Gambling Commission has found that there are concerns about the introduction of new checks and how intrusive they may be. The last Government wanted to pilot that scheme, and there are potential benefits to it, but we have to be a bit careful, because the concern is that blanket checks are being brought in without a pilot scheme. People are naturally nervous—the regular people who like to have a bet are concerned—about the intrusive nature of what private companies, and indeed the Government, are doing to try to access their financial data. We need to be wary of that, because it can put people off using British, regulated companies and push them toward foreign, unregulated spaces that are not subject to the same gambling taxation, which often allows for more attractive stakes and so on.
All of that is drawing people into a place we do not want them to be in. We do not want to over-regulate our own market and force people into a place that is of no advantage to us and that we have no influence over. We must be very mindful of that, whether it is gambling or any other sector.
The modelling shows a depressing outlook for the industry under the current taxation system. There is some very headline-grabbing stuff: Coral has pulled out of its deal to sponsor Cheltenham, and the industry expects to lose 16,000 jobs across the UK, a number of which are high-tech jobs. This is a high-tech industry these days; there is a huge online element to it, as we know. Those jobs will be lost in places such as Stoke, Warrington, Leeds, Sunderland, Manchester, Nottingham and Newcastle-under-Lyme where the successful gambling firms are based. Those job losses will then filter down to the gambling shops on our high streets; in recent weeks, we saw William Hill announce the loss of 200 high street stores.
Beyond the costs to the taxpayer and people’s jobs and lives, gambling advertising and sponsorship also supports broadcast media and sports across the spectrum. As well as regulated advertising falling, the WARC report also found that sponsorship by regulated companies plateaued in 2021 and is set to decline. That sponsorship covers prize money, along with increased levels of interest, competition and viewership. It is a virtuous circle. It gets people enthused by sport and gets them involved. It is not something that we should see as simply a bad thing to do.
Given that much free-to-air sports coverage—along with the lower levels or grassroots of certain sports—is largely dependent on this advertising revenue, there is a risk that we will further lose free-to-air coverage because sports will have to look to a more lucrative broadcast deals. Look at examples from the grassroots, with those firms sponsoring lower league clubs in football and the good work that they do there to support grassroots football—it is not just about what is going on in the premier league. We see less of those things on a day-to-day basis, but they are going on in clubs across the country.
While sponsorship by regulated companies plateaued and is falling, total sponsorship by the gaming sector has grown, from £158 million in 2019 to £250 million this year. The growth is not by those regulated companies, however. Unregulated firms have accelerated their sponsorship—more than tripling it in the same period—and by next year more than half of sponsorship will be by unregulated firms.
Alex Ballinger
The hon. Member’s concerns are about the unregulated market. However, the proposals in the APPG report are talking about restrictions on gambling advertising, including unregulated gambling advertising. He talks about the growth in unregulated gambling advertising, which is of course a big problem. But surely if those restrictions were implemented, it would give a better chance to bookkeepers that already have shops on the high street and a well-known reputation?
Order. These are very long interventions. Some Members have given a speech and others will have an opportunity to speak later and will be able to make their points. We need to make progress.
Charlie Dewhirst
The hon. Member has made a number of points on that subject. I will make some progress as I am sure that you, Mrs Harris, are keen for me to wrap up this contribution as soon as I can.
Is it not right to say that we cannot regulate the black economy, so what the hon. Member for Halesowen (Alex Ballinger) is saying is not possible?
Charlie Dewhirst
My right hon. Friend has jogged my memory. There is a serious issue here. A lot of this advertising is online in a space that we cannot necessarily regulate, and search engines will bring up these sites with obvious key words. For example, a problem gambler who has been part of GamStop or similar will have access to non-GamStop sites and that will bring up illegal betting sites. There is no way of regulating these particularly easily. That is why we need to be very conscious about what we do to damage our own regulated market.
We are exposing people to unregulated websites where protections for those who need them do not exist. In fact, illegal operators specifically promote those sites on the internet through the various ways that they can advertise in a less regulated space. They also do other things regarding how bonuses are constructed and how they target people and so on. Regulated betting and gaming operators are already committing 20% of their advertising to safer gambling messaging, in addition to the messaging that sits within all advertising. During Safer Gambling Week, 1.53 million safer gambling tool limits were in place—an increase of 22% on the previous year. I was at a gambling shop on my high street ahead of the grand national a couple of weeks back, and it was interesting to note that they now run a similar system to Pubwatch—so it is not just online. They share information about individuals in the local area who have problems and need to be supported should they wish to try and place a bet in one of those shops.
None of those robust protections and specific licence conditions for operators, nor the strengthening of the UK advertising codes in 2022—which included new protections for children and vulnerable adults—will make any difference if the Government drive people into the black market.
In conclusion, banning something does not necessarily stop it from happening, and the Government’s policies and this report—if it were to be implemented—could in theory move more people into that less regulated illegal space. The hon. Member for Halesowen said that he is not anti-gambling, but my concern is that he is anti-regulated gambling by UK companies, and there is a very real danger that we will push people into the black market.
If we are to allow Front-Bench speakers to have ample time, we should bear that in mind with any interventions.
Dr Beccy Cooper (Worthing West) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mrs Harris.
It has been an interesting debate so far, and I thank the hon. Member for Bridlington and The Wolds (Charlie Dewhirst) for taking so many interventions. It was incredibly interesting to hear the discussion. I come at this issue from a particular point of view. I am a public health consultant and I have spent many years working with my colleagues to understand how big tobacco works—I put that on the record.
This debate is both timely and important. We have reached a point in this country where the advertising of gambling products is so ubiquitous that it is almost unheard of to see a sporting event without it, a gambling-free advert break on the telly, or children’s YouTube watching that is not punctuated by colourful, cheerful ads for thinly disguised gambling opportunities. Social media algorithms? Well, they are fodder for gambling promo.
I would like everybody to try a thought experiment. I do not know whether this has been done before in Westminster Hall, but stick with me. Replay what I have just said about advertising everywhere in life—sports events, telly ads, children’s YouTube, social media feeds—but replace gambling with alcohol or smoking, and take a minute this evening to consider how it would feel if we were pushing booze and fags, particularly to children, at any and every opportunity with very little regulation. The fact is, of course, that that was pretty standard fare before public health took on big tobacco, with an increasing body of evidence that smoking is addictive and causes lung cancer. That is now a widely agreed fact, and even the most libertarian colleagues would be hard pressed to make the case that advertising smoking as a desirable life choice is in the best interests of anybody. Alcohol remains more nuanced for many reasons. From a health point of view, while it is undoubtedly an addictive product that has the capacity to cause serious health harms and early death, it is also possible to enjoy alcohol and perhaps even benefit from the antioxidants in red wine. We recognise that and have produced guidelines on consumption levels.
Gambling is an addictive product. That is an incontrovertible health fact, backed up by a large and growing body of evidence. However, as with alcohol, there is a spectrum of addiction across gambling products, which, again, is well evidenced. How do current advertising regulations reflect those facts? The short answer is not very well. The recent report by the APPG on gambling reform and Peers for Gambling Reform, as my hon. Friend the Member for Halesowen (Alex Ballinger) said, brings together academic research, clinical expertise and lived experience, and its conclusion is clear. The current system of regulating gambling advertising is not working.
Gambling advertising is now pervasive across television, sport, social media and online platforms, reaching audiences far beyond its intended adult market. Evidence from the Gambling Commission shows that 79% of children and young people recall seeing gambling advertising across multiple channels. Emerging forms of advertising, including content marketing and influencer promotion, blur the line between entertainment and promotion, making risks harder to identify, particularly for younger audiences.
I want to touch briefly on the conversation about legal and illegal markets. I absolutely hear the need to regulate illegal markets. It was a conversation that we had in the big tobacco world for years and years, and the answer is: it is not either/or; it is both. We have to regulate the legal industry and the illegal industry. Talking about one or the other will simply not solve the problem.
Charlie Dewhirst
If something is already illegal, we do not regulate it. Does the hon. Member agree?