Leaving the EU: Economic Impact of Proposed Deal

Chris Elmore Excerpts

Wednesday 20th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

No, I do not need the hon. Gentleman to get up. Remain seated and behave with courtesy. What on earth has got into you?

[Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)]

As the Minister will know, 23% of all the European funding that comes to the UK goes to Wales. He said that discussions on the shared prosperity fund would start before Christmas; I wonder whether he has played any part in that. Leave campaigners said that Wales would not be a penny worse off if we left the European Union, so will the Minister set out how the fund will work and who will make decisions to ensure that the Welsh economy does not tank if we are to have this botched Brexit deal?

[Mel Stride]

As the hon. Gentleman knows, we will set out those details in due course.

[Chris Elmore]

Sod all!

[Mr Speaker]

Order.

[Chris Elmore]

I am sorry, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

It is not really a matter of order but very poor taste, and I expect somebody as culturally sophisticated as the hon. Gentleman to behave better than that.

Communities: Charities and Volunteers

Chris Elmore Excerpts

Wednesday 13th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mims Davies]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right to say that we should not forget our rural communities. We should work on this through the loneliness fund and the building connections fund, and I have more to say on that. I absolutely must speed on, but we need to make sure that we can cater for everyone across the land.

Moving on to youth opportunities, we need to harness the energy of young people and ensure that they have the opportunity to contribute to their local area. Volunteering provides young people with many of the skills that they will need later in life, and we are reaching out to the next generation to give them more opportunities to get involved.

[Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mims Davies]

I will give way quickly, but I need to speed on.

[Chris Elmore]

I am extremely grateful to the Minister. Will she join me in paying tribute to the guide and scout movement, which does an enormous amount of work to try to ensure that young people understand the value of volunteering? It was refreshing to have scouts and guides approaching me as their local Member of Parliament to engage in National Democracy Week last year, so that they could begin to understand the wider process of democracy, which is linked to volunteering.

[Mims Davies]

The £5 million that the Government invested in creating new places for disadvantaged young people through uniformed youth groups, including Girlguiding and St John Ambulance, shows that we are committed. We also have half a million participants in the National Citizen Service. Working with the National Lottery Community Fund, we are investing another £80 million to help young people be active in their communities. We want our young people to have a voice in decision making, and we are creating two new groups to involve them.

Sport in the UK

Chris Elmore Excerpts

Monday 4th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Mims Davies)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered sport in the UK.

I am delighted that the House has the opportunity to discuss this important subject today. This debate takes place just over three years on from the publication of our sport strategy, “Sporting Future”. I will shortly be laying a written statement in the House on the progress we have made on implementing that strategy. “Sporting Future” set out a radical new vision for sport and physical activity. It reassesses how we value and measure the nation’s health and wellbeing. It prioritises tackling inactivity as well as engaging people from under-represented groups. It places five outcomes at the heart of everything we do: physical wellbeing, mental wellbeing, individual development, social and community development and economic development.

[Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)]

On economic development, although the Minister will appreciate that, in essence, sport is devolved to the National Assembly for Wales and the Welsh Government, does she welcome physical regeneration, as has happened in the Llynfi valley in my constituency in the community of Nantyffyllon? It has redeveloped an entire rugby ground, including new facilities for a sports club. This has brought about community cohesion together with whole area regeneration, so sport can not only play a big physical part in improving people’s fitness, but bring about real change in a wider community.

[Mims Davies]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising that issue. Indeed, I have met my counterparts in Wales and will have further such meetings. I absolutely agree that when communities come together around sport, it is really important that economic regeneration plays its part as well. I think that those in his community are benefiting greatly.

I spent my first three months as Sports Minister meeting people in the sector and seeing at first hand the fantastic work that is going on across the country, as we have heard. This is mainly a devolved policy area, so a lot of what I will talk about this evening relates to grassroots in England-only, but there are some reserved aspects in my policy brief, and we share themes and common goals across the UK. As I have said, I met the home nations Ministers at sports cabinet and I plan to build on relationships during my tenure and have further visits and meetings planned.

Finance (No. 3) Bill

Chris Elmore Excerpts

3rd reading: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Tuesday 8th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Peter Dowd]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point and backs up the point that I was making.

Those countries acknowledged a hard economic fact that appears to have stumped this Government: we cannot cut our way to growth. That has failed repeatedly, from its early use under US President Herbert Hoover, which turned the stock market crash into the great depression, to the International Monetary Fund programmes that have been imposed in developing countries and the economic and social devastation inflicted on Greece. This Government’s austerity agenda is yet another failure to add to that list. They have missed every economic target they have set, and it is the poorest in society who have paid the price.

[Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)]

It is interesting to listen to my hon. Friend’s informed explanation of how austerity has not worked across history. Does he agree that up until the 2010 general election, because of the fiscal stimulus put in place by the Chancellor Alistair Darling and the Prime Minister Gordon Brown, those first two quarters were successive periods of growth, and the economy fell off a cliff because of the austerity introduced by the Conservative party?

[Peter Dowd]

My hon. Friend is right. The economy thereafter, with the help of the Liberal Democrats, started to go down the pan. To this day, we have not recovered, and the Government’s own figures indicate that this will go on for many more years. We will have more of the same, and it is not working. When will they learn the lesson? They seem to be incapable. Even the IMF recognises the failure of austerity and has called for increased public spending to offset the negative economic effects of Brexit.

HBOS Reading: Independent Review

Chris Elmore Excerpts

Tuesday 18th December 2018 Westminster Hall

[Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the independent review of HBOS Reading.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Christopher. There are some fundamental business principles that underpin any free market economy: we compete on a fair and level playing field; we all have a fair, fighting chance of success; we all play by the same rules; and our regulations and the rule of law ensure, where injustices occur, that justice is done and is seen to be done.

Many people in the Public Gallery today no longer believe in those principles. They have been subject to scandalous, criminal fraud perpetrated by senior bank managers at Lloyds and HBOS. They have had to suffer further scandal at the hands of those at the highest level in the bank who, when made aware of the fraud, instead of holding their hands up to what had gone wrong, denied any wrongdoing for 10 years. Indeed, there is clear and compelling evidence that the most senior management sought to cover up the fraud, suppressed evidence, and used the HBOS review process, which is supposedly there to compensate the victims, to minimise payments and perpetuate the cover-up. Incredibly, our system—our regulators—stood by and allowed the fraud against the victims to continue.

[Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)]

The hon. Gentleman knows my view of him. He does an enormous amount of work on these issues, and I pay tribute to him for all that work. He will be aware of my constituent, Mr Alun Richards, whose business went under through the Lloyds Banking Group. He has mentioned public bodies, including the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors, the Solicitors Regulation Authority and the Serious Fraud Office, turning a blind eye. He and I have been working for a number of years to try to get those organisations to deal with these complaints. Millions and millions of pounds have gone missing. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that there is a need for a fundamental review, led by the Treasury, of how we can get a better banking system that works for customers and is a lot more ethical about how it conducts its business practices?

[Kevin Hollinrake]

I do agree. The sector is so far away from the banking sector that we need that fundamental reform is needed not only in the regulatory process, but in the mechanisms that enable victims to hold the banks to account, which I will come on to soon.

Animal Rescue Centres

Chris Elmore Excerpts

Tuesday 4th December 2018 Westminster Hall

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

The hon. Gentleman raises a serious point. The Select Committee on which we served—he is still a distinguished member—has looked at the issue, which is troubling for welfare organisations and needs Government attention.

The RSPCA believes that all rescue and rehoming centres and sanctuaries should be licensed under the animal regulations, first, to close the loophole in the third-party ban on sales and prevent third-party sellers from setting up as animal rescue centres. Secondly, it would improve the welfare of animals kept in such establishments by creating a legislative structure that drives improvements and standards of keeping and allows the enforcement of such standards. Thirdly, standards already exist that would assist licensing to reduce the burden on local authorities.

The RSPCA also believes there is a risk that third-party sellers could become rescue centres, to evade the ban on third-party sales, so it would welcome the licensing of rescue centres and sanctuaries. Indeed, some pet shops already have a charitable arm, such as Pets at Home, which has the Support Adoption for Pets operation that sells animals that have been abandoned and rescued, such as rabbits, to rescue organisations or gives them back to Pets at Home.

The RSPCA stresses that if a charity’s aims are generic and those aims are—on the face of it—being followed, the Charity Commission could be limited in the actions it could take, even if the organisation is a front that was set up to avoid the third-party ban. It argues that licensing rescue centres would close that loophole. Specialist knowledge is required to operate an animal sanctuary or rescue or rehoming centre, in terms of management and administrative skills as well as expertise in caring for animals. All sanctuaries should be required to obtain a licence to carry on such activities. The RSPCA does not believe that there should be a size or animal number threshold below which establishments should be excluded from licensing. Organisations and individuals operating as rescue centres can, despite their laudable original aims, become overwhelmed and struggle to meet welfare standards.

The RSPCA undertakes around 85% of enforcement action deriving from the Animal Welfare Act 2006. As well as the standards coming into force as part of the 2018 regulations, ADCH, which my hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (Jo Platt) mentioned, has a code of practice, which sets standards of animal care. That may be a good basis for the licensing of rescue and rehoming centres, and may aid local authorities to enforce any licensing regime.

ADCH has 132 members in eight countries. The majority—more than 80—are located in England. ADCH, which is 33 years old, has had enforceable standards since 2015. Those standards, which are both self-audited and externally audited, cover the management and governance of a centre, as well as the health and welfare of the cats and dogs in it and transported to it. However, membership of ADCH is voluntary, so rehoming organisations and animal sanctuaries are not required to adhere to the code of practice unless they choose to become a member and meet those requirements.

Although self-regulation is an important step in the right direction, formal regulation is required to ensure that all establishments, as opposed to just those that want to, meet suitable levels of animal welfare. One possibility is for ADCH members that apply and are audited against the ADCH standards to be defined as low risk in a licensing regime.

The RSPCA understands that discussions are under way in Scotland and Wales about improving standards in sanctuaries and in rescue and rehoming centres, and, in Scotland, about introducing a licensing system. In Wales, a definition of places called “animal welfare establishments” has been proposed for the Government to consider, based on discussions with the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.

The Dogs Trust has also weighed in. It points out that there is currently no legislation in place, so anyone can set themselves up as a rehoming organisation or sanctuary. Furthermore, there is little proactively to safeguard the animals involved, as local authorities are not required to inspect those premises, so they do not do so. It adds that poor welfare can have a knock-on effect when an animal is rehomed.

[Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend is making an impassioned speech about why we need better regulation. The Hope sanctuary in Llanharan is in my constituency, where the local authority simply does not have the money or the capacity to check licences. That is part of a wider cuts agenda in local government. Does he agree that, in some cases, these services are there to try to support local government because it no longer has the capacity to protect animals?

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

My hon. Friend has much better knowledge of his local centre than I do, and the fact that he is concerned about it concerns me. I am glad that he called my speech impassioned—I am actually hastening to try to get through it, having taken a number of interventions. I hope to get to the end, and I hope the Minister understands that I may run over by a few minutes.

Dogs Trust calls on the Government to address the lack of regulation of the rehoming sector as a means of protecting our nation’s animals and creating transparency in the industry. It wants the Government to regulate all rehoming organisations and animal sanctuaries through a system of registration and licensing. It also recommends that the Government should develop an independent, centrally accessible team of appropriately trained inspectors that can be utilised by all local authorities to inspect animal establishments—not only rehoming centres and sanctuaries, but those involved in activities such as boarding, breeding and selling.

The Pet Advertising Advisory Group, which is chaired by Dogs Trust, also operates a system of self-regulation for online adverts offering pets for sale. Owing to its voluntary nature, PAAG has reached a plateau in the progress it can achieve, as some websites are unwilling to engage and apply the group’s minimum standards for online adverts. With no obligation on those who do not want to engage to improve, self-regulation will always be limited to those who want to do more to protect animal welfare.

In late 2017, the Scottish Government consulted on introducing a registration and licensing system for animal sanctuaries and rehoming activities in Scotland, following the discovery of bad practice at Ayrshire Ark and the subsequent “Sort Our Shelters” campaign by The Scottish Sun. The Scottish Government published a summary of responses and are now drafting regulations. The RSPCA recently conducted multiple operations, which Dogs Trust supported to ensure that there was sufficient capacity to house all the animals seized. In 2013, six members of staff at Crunchy’s animal rescue centre in Oxfordshire were convicted of nearly 100 counts of animal cruelty.

Although the regulations do not cover rescue centres, the Government have committed to banning third-party sales of puppies and kittens under six months of age, with an exemption for rescue centres. It is essential that regulation of rescue centres is delivered hand in hand with that ban to prevent damaging unintended consequences, which may include such places being prevented from rehoming puppies and kittens legally and third-party dealers passing themselves off as rescue centres to circumvent the ban. I welcome the news that the Government are minded to make that change.

Currently, any person, organisation or animal welfare establishment that regularly receives vulnerable animals with a view to rehoming them, rehabilitating them or providing them with long-term care can do so across the UK without licensing or regulation. The only organisation that provides mentorship to smaller rescue centres and actively works to raise standards is ADCH, which is run by Battersea and has already been mentioned.

Another example of worst practice was highlighted at Capricorn Animal Rescue in Mold, north Wales. The Charity Commission had been investigating governance issues, but RSPCA Cymru had to step in following a request for support. In the past couple of years, Capricorn has been subject to protests and petitions by former volunteers concerned about its animal welfare standards. Those issues have been raised locally with my right hon. Friends the Members for Delyn (David Hanson) and for Alyn and Deeside (Mark Tami), and they are on the case.

The most senior animal welfare charities are very concerned about the vacuum in this area of animal protection. The Government have made reassuring noises on the issue—their consultation indicated that they are minded to provide stiffer sentences and to look at the absence of regulation—and Scotland and Wales are moving on it, too. As I said, this is not an attack on the Government. I welcome what they have said, and I would be grateful if the Minister reassured us about what action he plans to take and the expected timeframe for that action.

Business Banking Fraud

Chris Elmore Excerpts

Tuesday 9th October 2018 Westminster Hall

[Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Robertson. I congratulate the hon. Member for Hazel Grove (Mr Wragg) on securing this debate. I have to say, however, that this is the fifth debate I have taken part in on this matter in my two and half years in the House. It is disappointing that we are here again. We are not making the progress that we should be making and that our constituents deserve.

As we have heard, many colleagues have experience of many examples of serious malpractice within the banking sector. Indeed, from discussing my experiences of this issue with colleagues from across the House, it seems that the majority of cases remain unresolved. I wholeheartedly agree with my colleagues from the all-party parliamentary group that it is now time the Government provided adequate resources for these cases to be reviewed, to ensure that those who have been treated poorly receive the justice they deserve.

I would like to raise the case of my constituent Mr Alun Richards, which I have raised many times since I was first elected. This case has been going on so long that my predecessor, Huw Irranca-Davies, raised it nine or 10 years ago. Until around a decade ago, Alun Richards was one of Wales’s most successful businessmen. By the early noughties, Mr Richards’s farming and property enterprises had received award recognition and his efforts soon attracted—at the time, welcome—attention from Lloyds Banking Group. Lloyds offered Mr Richards a gold star account and an interest rate of 1% over base. After weighing this up against other offers, Mr Richards accepted the Lloyds offer, and his business continued to thrive.

The financial crash in 2008 was a global turning point. Mr Richards believes that his relationship with Lloyds acutely deteriorated at that point. Suddenly, with little notice, Alun’s bank managers in Carmarthen, Gwilym Francis and Ian Richards, transferred his accounts to a larger branch based in Bristol. After a short period, Alun approached his new branch and was alarmed to discover that his new bank manager, Max Meredith, was from the business support unit, which focuses on recoveries. Alun was deeply worried about this change as, prior to that, he had considered his business to be booming. Mr Meredith agreed with Alun that his circumstances were not typical for such a transfer and agreed to transfer his account back to Carmarthen. To Alun’s dismay, Gwilym Francis and Ian Richards refused to accept the account back in Carmarthen.

Alun soon received a visit from Mr John Holiday and Mr Jonathan Miles from the business support unit in Bristol. During this meeting, one of Alun’s accountants questioned Mr Miles’s behaviour and background. Mr Miles claimed that he worked for Lloyds Banking Group, and repeated that claim for the following two and a half years. Mr Richards has since discovered that Mr Miles was a chartered surveyor, a member of the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors and a partner of Alder King. It appears that no official secondment was in place. Mr Miles even appointed partners from Alder King—Julian Smith and Andrew Hughes—as the Law of Property Act 1925 receivers. When that initially surfaced, Mr Hughes temporarily resigned. RICS has refused to take any action and, following complaints against Bristol-based lawyers TLT, so have the Solicitors Regulation Authority and the Insolvency Practitioners Association.

Alun Richards’s decade-long struggle has involved Lloyds Banking Group, Alder King and the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors. Surely it cannot be right that Mr Richards, whose enterprise was worth about £5 million, has been left with nothing as the direct result of the actions of Lloyds bank and the others I have listed, as he believes.

Mr Richards and many others across the country feel that their cases have not been investigated properly, despite my appeals and those of other hon. Members from across the House to many different bodies. Most recently, we wrote to the Chair of the Treasury Committee, the right hon. Member for Loughborough (Nicky Morgan), asking her to open an inquiry into these alleged malpractices. Disappointingly, she was unable to give us that inquiry, but I sincerely call on the Minister to take action to ensure that these unresolved cases are comprehensively reviewed to ensure that those individuals who have been wronged receive the justice they deserve.

There is a real need to give the Serious Fraud Office extra funds to investigate the ever-increasing list of actions by Lloyds and those other organisations. The FCA’s line—that the alleged fraud does not reach the limits to investigate—simply will not wash any longer. There are too many cases involving large sums of money—millions and millions of pounds—for the FCA to simply say that the figure is not high enough to investigate.

Ten long years on from the crash, it can only be right that the Government provide adequate resources for these cases to be reviewed. It is their duty to investigate these malpractices to ensure that they never happen again and that constituents such as Mr Richards, and those of all hon. Members from across the House, get the justice that they rightly deserve.

Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Elmore Excerpts

Tuesday 11th September 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

It is true that pubs are assessed in a different way from other retail premises for business rates purposes. We looked into that recently and concluded that the current system was in fact the best system for pubs, but I shall be happy to look into it again.

We all recognise—every single one of us, whichever part of the country we represent—that high streets are under pressure, primarily because the behaviour of consumers is changing. I think that our challenge is to support the high street as it undergoes that process of change. We cannot simply turn our backs on a change that is driven by consumer behaviour, but we must support businesses as they make it.

[Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)]

I am sure the Chancellor will agree that there is a need to encourage entrepreneurs and small business start-ups, including the setting up of new pubs. Will he agree to follow the lead of the Welsh Labour Government, who have set up a micro small business fund that provides up to £500,000 a year to enable small businesses to protect and create jobs? A UK-wide scheme could protect a great many small industries, including the pub industry.

[Mr Hammond]

The hon. Gentleman will know that we have the start-up loan scheme, which provides support for entrepreneurs starting small businesses, and the Government will continue to encourage small businesses to be established and then to grow.

Treasury Spending: Grants to Devolved Institutions

Chris Elmore Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd July 2018 Commons Chamber

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

I thank the Backbench Business Committee for agreeing to schedule this debate, and I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow South (Stewart Malcolm McDonald) for making the application and all the Members from across the House who agreed to back it. My hon. Friend is unwell today, which is why I am here in his place; I hope that Members understand.

As the House would expect, I shall mainly focus my comments on the Scottish context, but I wish first to touch on the other devolved institutions. My Welsh colleagues have often expressed their concerns about how the Barnett formula applies to Wales. The issue was further compounded by the recent cancelling of the Swansea tidal lagoon project, which would have generated significant income for Wales. The reality is that Wales has been badly served by the UK Government.

On Northern Ireland, the main estimates include £410 million arising from the confidence and supply agreement. The SNP has stressed on numerous occasions how shocking it is that the Prime Minister has entered into this grubby deal, giving huge amounts of cash to Northern Ireland just to keep herself and her Government in power. But the biggest problem about the whole deal—apart from the fact that the Tories, with whom we fundamentally disagree, are being propped up by the Democratic Unionist party, with which we have even more fundamental disagreements—is that the money does not generate Barnett consequentials. If Northern Ireland is receiving £1 billion, Scotland should receive £2.9 billion and Wales £1.6 billion. Given that Scotland’s discretionary budget has been cut by 8.1%, or by £2.6 billion, between 2010-11 and 2019-20, I hope that the UK Government will understand why the people of Scotland and of Wales are so deeply unimpressed by their behaviour.

[Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)]

In addition to the provision of the DUP bung, Wales has lost £1.2 billion, or 7%, since 2010, so we are talking about a 7% real- terms cut. Despite that and despite the myths peddled by the Government, health and social care spending in Wales is still higher per head of population than in England. Does the hon. Lady agree that we should talk in facts and that the real-terms cuts happening in Wales and Scotland are having a real impact on people’s lives?

[Kirsty Blackman]

I agree. What we should be doing in this debate, and what I will try to do in this debate, is to lay out what the real-terms cuts actually are. We cannot have constant fudge from the UK Government, whether on the Wales budget or on the Scotland budget. We need to be accurate about how much is being cut from these budgets.

Scotland’s fiscal resource budget has seen a cut of 9.1% over this period, and our total fiscal budget will be cut by 8.4% in real terms. The UK Government have been talking about the Barnett consequentials that are coming to Scotland, but the reality is that most of that money is financial transactions money. Financial transactions cannot be spent on normal day-to-day spending. They cannot be spent on resources for our NHS, for example, because they have to be paid back. This is not real money that the Scottish Government can spend.

We are also seeing a £230 million resource cut in 2018-19, but despite that, the SNP Government at Holyrood continue to protect public services and to invest in measures to unlock innovation and drive increased productivity. On policing, unlike the UK Government, we have not cut the numbers of police. At this point, I would like to congratulate the new Scottish Justice Minister, Humza Yousaf. It is possible that Donald Trump will visit Scotland. I am certainly not a big fan of Donald Trump coming to Scotland, but I am pleased that Humza Yousaf has managed to convince the UK Treasury—I thank the Minister for doing this—to provide an extra £5 million to cover the cost of rolling out the red carpet. I do not want Donald Trump to come here anyway, but he has had the hand of welcome extended to him by the Prime Minister, so it is completely reasonable that the UK Government should cover this cost.

Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Elmore Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)]

10. What steps his Department is taking to reduce the number of tax credits overpayments.

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mel Stride)]

Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs has taken a variety of steps to reduce overpayments of tax credits including real-time income data in-year, guidance that is very clear on these matters, and of course providing appropriate contact routes with HMRC so that those who have changed circumstances can indicate that to our tax authorities.

[Chris Elmore]

Overpayment of tax credits can have disastrous impacts on families; a constituent of mine has been left with a bill of £8,000 as a result of purely administrative errors admitted by HMRC. Such errors can create real financial hardship and in the past have even pushed some families into poverty. Will the Minister start instructing Treasury and HMRC officials to do more to tackle this problem?

[Mel Stride]

HMRC is doing a great deal, as I have already outlined to the hon. Gentleman, in terms of making sure that the correct information is provided. Overpayments do not solely emanate from HMRC; there is of course customer error and there can be negligence or a failure to report a change of circumstances. But I can assure the hon. Gentleman that HMRC is always sympathetic and careful in its approach to anybody in the kind of situation he described.