Draft Social Security Coordination (Regulation (EC) No 987/2009) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 Draft Social Security Coordination (Council Regulation (EEC) No 1408/71 and Council Regulation (EC) No 859/2003) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 Draft Social Security Coordination (Regulation (EC) No 574/72) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 Draft Social Security Coordination (Regulation (EC) No 883/2004, EEA Agreement and Swiss Agreement) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Chris Stephens Excerpts

Wednesday 20th March 2019 General Committees

[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

It is good to see a fellow Glaswegian in the Chair, Mr Gray. It is the greatest city in the world, as you and I are well aware.

First, the Government suggest that the draft regulations will protect citizens’ rights “as far as possible”. However, it is clear that there can be absolutely no guarantees that the current rights of UK citizens in the EU will be protected.

Secondly, I think that the European Statutory Instruments Committee was correct to decide that the statutory instruments should be upgraded to the affirmative procedure, as opposed to the negative procedure. I say that as a former member of that Committee—I thought the Whips were disciplining me for something. It is a Committee that always takes the issues very seriously.

Thirdly, there appears to be a paradox in the UK Government putting in place mechanisms for the operation of social security co-ordination agreements in the event of no deal. The statutory instruments will enable the UK Government to ask claimants to provide them with data to determine whether the UK or another relevant member state is responsible for the payment of social security. The explanatory notes state that should the information be insufficient, the UK will simply not make the payment, even if it is its competence to do so. What information will claimants be asked to provide? Will claimants have to obtain the information themselves at their own cost? What deadline will the UK Government give to such claimants? Will the Minister also tell us what the determination of “sufficiency” is? How will such determinations of sufficiency be communicated to claimants? These are serious questions, and the Government must answer them.

What is the situation for people who have worked in the UK, whether they are UK or EU nationals, but who do not live in the UK? In the event of no deal or there being no reciprocal arrangements, will their national insurance contributions be put on hold? Will they be inaccessible for the duration until the person provides sufficient information? What will the Government do with those national insurance contributions until the person provides the information? Is there a cut-off point? If that person passes away, will the national insurance contributions pass to their next of kin?

Will the Minister confirm that a UK claimant in the EU will lose their right to provisional payments by the DWP during disputes over competence? Will he also confirm that workers who are resident outside the UK, whether UK or EU nationals, could be subject to legislation in two different states at the same time? The entire point of the social security co-ordination regulations at the EU level is to stop that from happening.

It is clear that social security co-ordination could essentially cease with these draft regulations, meaning that there would be no protection for those to whom it currently applies. This situation adds to the arguments of those of us in this House who believe that we should be extending article 50 and putting a vote to the people.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alok Sharma]

I note the hon. Lady’s point but, as I said, the impact assessment was in relation to any material changes. We do not believe that there are any, as these are merely technical changes to retained law.

A point was raised about data-sharing. We will of course continue to work closely with the EU so that the first port of call for contribution queries is other member states. The instruments include provisions to ensure that the UK can continue to share data with EU member states when they are applying the co-ordination regulations. If I have not been able to answer any questions—

[Chris Stephens]

The Minister is obviously going to tell us that he is going to write to us on some of the questions. Could he also write to members of the Select Committee on Work and Pensions about this? Will he be liaising with that Committee on the regulations in the event of no deal, and what it means for social security claimants?

[Alok Sharma]

I will, of course, write to the hon. Gentleman. When it comes to the Select Committee and other bodies of the House, there is always an opportunity to have a dialogue with them. As he will know, DWP Ministers are in front of the Select Committee on a regular basis—I will be making another appearance in a few weeks—so we are always happy to liaise.

In conclusion, the Government are committed to ensuring that the social security system works for everyone post exit day. The draft regulations will help to do that by fixing deficiencies in retained EU law. I therefore commend them to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft Social Security Coordination (Regulation (EC) No 987/2009) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

Draft Social Security Coordination (Council Regulation (EEC) No 1408/71 and Council Regulation (EC) No 859/2003) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft Social Security Coordination (Council Regulation (EEC) No 1408/71 and Council Regulation (EC) No 859/2003) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.—(Alok Sharma.)

Draft Social Security Coordination (Council Regulation (EEC) No 574/72) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft Social Security Coordination (Council Regulation (EEC) No 574/72) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.—(Alok Sharma.)

Draft Social Security Coordination (Regulation (EC) No 883/2004, EEA Agreement and Swiss Agreement) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft Social Security Coordination (Regulation (EC) No 883/2004, EEA Agreement and Swiss Agreement) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.—(Alok Sharma.)