House of Lords Reform Bill

Debate between Christopher Pincher and Angela Smith

Monday 9th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Angela Smith]

The hon. Gentleman makes a good point.

The Bill clearly needs improvement if it is to work effectively to strengthen our democracy and our law-making processes. It needs to be informed by rigorous debate and further consideration of constitutional expertise. It needs scrutinising not only in relation to the issues I have already referred to, but in relation to the size of the proposed Chamber, which was mentioned by a large proportion of the Members who contributed to the debate; the proposed length of terms of representation; the transition period; and the voting system for the election of its Members. The Bill currently recommends a semi-open list system, as opposed to the single transferable vote proposed in the draft Bill. Today, however, we have witnessed a lack of clarity about what the numerous variations of proportional representation mean, so once again the need for thorough debate has been firmly underlined.

The Bill proposes the biggest constitutional change our country has seen since the Parliament Act 1911, which is why we need to take care over its progress—we need to get it right. It would damage our democracy if the House were to force through the Bill without adequate debate and scrutiny—an argument that has asserted itself at every twist and turn of this debate. It was mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham (Ian Lucas), my right hon. Friend the Member for Stirling (Mrs McGuire), my hon. Friends the Members for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) and for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Tristram Hunt), my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field), my hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham West and Penge (Jim Dowd) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough (Mr Blunkett)—to mention just a few.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough pointed out that a range of views are present in this debate. The fact of those views absolutely makes the case for a period of thorough scrutiny. I would particularly mention the right hon. Member for Mid Sussex (Nicholas Soames), who pointed out rightly that Members need to read carefully the comments of the Clerk of the House about the reforms, particularly in relation to Commons primacy. That is a really important point. Members need to acquaint themselves with those comments and concerns before making up their minds about the Bill on Third Reading. Moreover, it would help the Bill if the Commons arrived at a consensus on the way forward by hammering out agreed positions via a process of debate and amendment.

The Opposition welcome reform of the House of Lords, and want to secure its progress and conduct the process constructively. My concluding words are therefore directed at the Deputy Prime Minister, who was asked in a letter sent to him last week by a Member of the other place to show a little more respect for our ermine-clad colleagues:

“If the future of one of the key parts of our British Constitution is to be debated in a responsible way, it is surely important that deliberate factual errors and insulting insinuations should not be part of the debate.”

The House is familiar with the cavalier manner that the Deputy Prime Minister deploys when making his arguments, and we are well accustomed to his tendency to exaggerate to make an argument, but today’s debate has underlined the point made by the other place. For the most part, this debate has been good humoured and civilised. He should respond by curbing his excesses and working with colleagues, not against them.

[Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)]

The right hon. Member for Tooting (Sadiq Khan) was brilliantly opaque in his view of Labour’s plans for timetabling. Will the hon. Lady be a littler clearer about Labour’s plans for Third Reading? Does she propose to support Third Reading, oppose it or abstain?

[Angela Smith]

The House needs to decide what are the important principles in the Bill. It needs proper discussion, and we have made it clear that we will work with the Government to ensure that progress is made, but we do not believe it appropriate to pre-programme the timetable. We have been absolutely clear on that.

Many colleagues today have had to curtail their comments because of the time pressures, and it is clear that the appetite for further debate is strong. We support the Second Reading of this far-from-perfect Bill but believe that today’s debate has put it firmly on the record that the House does not wish to give the Bill a swift passage into law, as the Deputy Prime Minister suggested earlier. Rather, it wants thoroughly to scrutinise and improve the Bill and make it fit for presentation to the electorate in a referendum. I, with the rest of the House, look forward to tomorrow’s debate.

Amendment of the Law

Debate between Christopher Pincher and Angela Smith

Thursday 22nd March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Christopher Pincher]

I will not, because I do not have much time.

The corporation tax reduction sends a message that this country and its businesses are open for business.

[Angela Smith]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Christopher Pincher]

No, the hon. Lady has had enough time to get herself into Hansard. I am not going to give way to her.

The reduction in corporation tax also sends a message to business that the Government are on its side and want it to create the jobs that pay the taxes that fund the public services we want and need. It is unfortunate that we have heard the shadow Chancellor today, and the shadow Chief Secretary bestriding the airwaves yesterday, saying that they would not have made the cut and would reintroduce corporation tax at 26p. What a message that sends to businesses in this country—that Labour has learned nothing and forgotten nothing from its mistakes. It does not want to kill the fatted calf; it wants to starve the entire herd.

I wish to give Ministers an important message about bureaucracy. Small and medium-sized enterprises have said to me that when they apply for a slice of the Government procurement pie, as the Government want them to do, they find the online application process time-consuming. For small businesses, time is a form of tax. I hope that my hon. Friend the Financial Secretary, who is in his place, will work with my right hon. Friend the Minister for the Cabinet Office continuously to streamline the process, with a view to reducing the time needed for initial online applications by just a few hours. That would help many small businesses apply for the slice of the Government procurement pie that we all know they need.

In the past, Chancellors have had a tin ear. Conservative Chancellors have made Budgets for accountants by accountants. The last Labour Government, after a reasonable start, began to write Budgets by spinners for spinners. It seems to me that Budgets should be made for the people. The Budget that we heard yesterday was an authentic Budget that spoke to the people. It spoke to the strivers, who want to get up, get on and make something of themselves. It spoke to the grafters, who are trying to build a business. It spoke to mums and dads who want their kids to grow up in a country that is free of crippling debt. It spoke to the aspirants, and I am happy to support it.