Finance (No. 2) Bill

Debate between David Gauke and Fiona O'Donnell

Wednesday 25th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. I will come back to that later.

Our long-term economic plan has delivered economic growth and record levels of employment, and it has put this country on a sustainable economic footing. Specifically on VAT, we have maintained the VAT registration threshold, which is now £82,000—the highest in the EU. That is of significant benefit to small businesses right across the country. While the bulk of the deficit reduction has come from spending, we chose to increase VAT from 2011. If it is necessary to raise large sums of money, as it clearly was in 2010 when we saw the structural deficit deteriorate—at least, the assessment made by the previous Government, and then by the independent OBR, showed a significant deterioration—then it is necessary to raise one of the bigger taxes.

Happily, we are no longer in that situation under the plans put forward by the Conservative party. I am afraid that Labour Members’ plans—not engaging in reducing the welfare budget and not committing themselves to controlling departmental spending in the way we would—mean that they will need to find a substantial tax increase. A Labour Government in 2010 would have put up the jobs tax—a different choice from ours. In those circumstances, it is hard to believe that we would have 1.9 million more people in work today than we had in 2010.

[Fiona O’Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab)]

If the Conservatives’ plan was so brilliant, will the Minister explain why, even at the height of the global crash in the UK, under the Labour Government we did not lose our triple A credit rating, but on his watch we did?

[Mr Gauke]

We have retained the confidence of the markets, and we have retained very low long-term interest rates. When we came to power, we were on a par with the likes of Spain and Italy; now, we are seen very much as a safe haven. The UK’s fiscal credibility has been maintained, and it would not have been had we stuck to Labour’s plans, even with a significant increase in the jobs tax.

--- Later in debate ---

[Fiona O'Donnell]

The Chancellor fought incredibly hard in the EU to protect bankers bonuses, so can the Minister tell us what efforts the Government have made to have that rule changed?

[Mr Gauke]

This has been a long-standing issue. The experience of trying to bring in new zero rates has been very difficult. If an opportunity arose, any future Government would want to pursue that.

Let me make a couple of points. We need to make progress on a number of items of business this afternoon. On living standards, this Government have taken many steps to help with living standards in difficult circumstances, such as the increase in the personal allowance, the freezing of fuel duty and the freezing of council tax. With reference to the impact on small businesses, this Government have a proud record of helping small businesses in the current difficult circumstances, not least by introducing the employment allowance, which is a cut in the jobs tax, and introducing an exemption for under 21s starting in April, which is a cut in the jobs tax. The following year, there will be no jobs tax for apprentices under the age of 25. We have a record of reducing the jobs tax. That is not the position of Labour.

My party has set out how we will reduce the deficit in terms of departmental spending, welfare and tax evasion and tax avoidance. Our plans are clear. The same is not the case with the Opposition. There is a black hole in their finances. As a consequence, the risk of a big increase in tax from the Opposition is clear. Their tax of choice is employers national insurance contributions. That is the one that the British public should be frightened of. The Leader of the Opposition refused to rule it out earlier. I understand that a panicky press release was issued this afternoon, but the British public know very clearly what will happen under a Labour Government—borrowing and taxes will go up. Consequently, I urge the British people not to allow that to happen, and I urge the Committee to reject new clause 1 today.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 66 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 67 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

New Clause 1

Report on impact of value added tax

(1) The Chancellor of the Exchequer shall, within three months of the passing of this Act, publish a report on the impact of the increase in the standard rate of VAT which took effect from 4 January 2011.

(2) The report must estimate the impact of the increase in the standard rate of value added tax on—

(a) living standards;

(b) small businesses;

(c) the fairness of the taxation system; and

(d) economic growth.—(Shabana Mahmood.)

Brought up, and read the First time.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Gauke]

That is a very good point, which leads me to the two quotations that I was about to give. Paul Johnson, the head of the IFS, said in a paper that was published on 27 January 2014:

“The best available estimate of what reversing the cut would raise is therefore about £100 million too.”

He also said that

“the best evidence we have still suggests that raising the top rate of tax would raise little revenue and make, at best, a marginal contribution to reducing the budget deficit an incoming government would face after the next election.”

[Fiona O’Donnell]

rose—

[Ian Murray]

rose—

[Mr Gauke]

I am spoilt for choice, but ladies first.

[Fiona O’Donnell]

I thank the Minister for his generosity in giving way again. The Institute for Fiscal Studies has said that the Government’s plans for tax cuts by 2020 would cost £7.2 billion. Can he tell us where that money would come from?

[Mr Gauke]

We have a record of increasing the personal allowance. This is a very good time to make that point, as we are debating, among other things, clauses 1 to 5, under which the personal allowance will move up to £11,000 during the next few years. We have a record of being able to deliver big increases in the allowance, and that is what we will do.

Let me now press on. The economic recovery is well under way, and last year Britain grew faster than any other major advanced economy in the world. The Government will not consider any action that would put the United Kingdom’s recovery at risk. While the additional rate has been reduced to ensure that the UK remains internationally competitive, the Government’s policy is to repeatedly increase the tax contribution of the wealthy. The share of income tax paid by the top 1% of taxpayers is projected to rise from 25.1% in 2010-11 to 27.3% in 2014-15, which means that they are expected to pay a greater share of income tax in 2014-15 than in any year under the last Government.

Tax Avoidance (HSBC)

Debate between David Gauke and Fiona O'Donnell

Monday 9th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

My hon. Friend has raised an important point. There was a problem with the way in which our system was working, and, as my hon. Friend says, the fact that cleaners paid a higher rate of tax than some people in private equity demonstrates how the last Government went awry.

[Fiona O’Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab)]

The Minister spoke about the leadership that the Prime Minister had shown on the issue of tax and transparency, but let us not forget that this was the same Prime Minister who said that he was relaxed about publishing his own tax return, and we are still waiting. Can the Minister update the House on his progress, and success, in the Crown dependencies and overseas territories? How many of them have committed themselves to, or ruled out, a public register?

[Mr Gauke]

We are still putting pressure on overseas territories and Crown dependencies, but all of them have signed up to the automatic exchange of information, which is a substantial breakthrough. I do not agree with the idea of putting all of them on a blacklist when France, Germany and the United States—indeed, 33 out of 34 OECD countries—have still not signed up to a public register. They are signed up, by and large, to a central register, but not yet to publishing it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Gauke and Fiona O'Donnell

Tuesday 9th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

By April this year the Government’s measures, including increases in the personal allowance for those born after 5 April 1948, are estimated to have taken about 3.4 million individuals out of the income tax system altogether. Some 248,000 of these individuals live in the east midlands region, which of course includes the constituency of Kettering in Northamptonshire.

[Fiona O'Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

Finance Bill

Debate between David Gauke and Fiona O'Donnell

Tuesday 3rd July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

If we do not want people earning £20,000, £25,000 or £30,000 a year to be paying for benefits to go to much wealthier households, the alternative would be an extension of the tax credit system. That would have placed a much greater burden both on households and the Government. Of the available alternatives, we have gone for the simpler option.

We are deferring the 3p per litre duty increase that was planned for August to January next year. Action by this Government to reduce the deficit and rebuild the economy is already benefiting businesses and families and keeping mortgage rates low. As hon. Members know, this Government have also had to make difficult decisions so we can tackle the deficit left to us by the previous Administration. They include withdrawing child benefit from households earning more than £50,000. That is a fair way to make savings, so we can meet our targets to cut the deficit.

We are also taking steps to ensure that the wealthy pay their fair share too. The Budget package ensures that the wealthiest will pay five times more than the cost of reducing the additional rate of income tax. The introduction of a new higher rate of stamp duty land tax of 7% on properties sold for more than £2 million will raise over £1 billion in the next five years. At the same time, this Government are also tackling avoidance, as demonstrated in the Bill. The new SDLT enveloping entry charge rate of 15% will deter those seeking to put their high-value property into corporate structures to avoid tax. Also, debt buy-back measures will raise over £500 million from banks that try to avoid paying the tax due, and the introduction of the UK-Switzerland agreement will ensure we can address the tax loss from those who put their money into Swiss banks to evade tax.

There has been extensive scrutiny of this Bill, including about 44 hours in Public Bill Committee. From looking at some of the new clauses tabled for today, I am happy to see that the Opposition continue to stick to their same theme on this Bill, which is to ask for reports, rather than focusing on policies. We have seen 34 Opposition-requested reports over the last 10 weeks, but no real policy alternatives. Yesterday, we were discussing Groucho Marx, and I wonder if the Opposition ever needed to be reminded of the quote:

“The problem with doing nothing is that you never know when you are finished.”

In order to make progress with Government business in good time, we agreed with the Opposition, through the usual channels, to programme parts of this Bill.

It is a delight to see my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) once again in his usual place. As he rightly said yesterday, this legislation is the body, soul and guts of this Budget.

I thank all who participated in Committee and on Report.

[Fiona O'Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab)]

rose—

[Mr Gauke]

I will even welcome a contribution from the hon. Lady—for the first time today, I think.

[Fiona O'Donnell]

It is very generous of the Minister to give way. Would he also like to reflect on the comment made by the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) that a good government is one that take tough decisions and stick to them? Does the Minister think that could be said in respect of their handling of this Bill?

[Mr Gauke]

This Government have taken tough decisions to bring the deficit down, and we are sticking to that plan even though some Opposition Members would rather give up on deficit reduction and continue to borrow in the same unsustainable way that we borrowed up until 2010. This Government remain determined to stick to that plan. I thank the hon. Lady for giving me the opportunity to underline that point.

I thank all those who have been involved in every stage of this Bill, including both Front Benchers and Back Benchers engaged in this matter, not to mention various others. I wish briefly to mention a couple of Treasury officials. First, I congratulate Mr Edward Troup, who, as announced earlier this week, has accepted the post of tax assurance commissioner and second permanent secretary at Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. His wealth of experience and enthusiasm will be a great asset for HMRC, but a sad loss to the Treasury. I also thank Jamie Miller, who has been the Bill manager for this Bill, and indeed has served on the past six Bills over the past four years. Despite that, he has remained remarkably cheerful, notwithstanding the provocation that all of us have given on that front.

In conclusion, this is a good Bill that builds a stronger and more balanced economy. It will strengthen the UK, making us more competitive and more ready to face the challenges ahead, and I commend it to the House.

Child Benefit

Debate between David Gauke and Fiona O'Donnell

Tuesday 22nd May 2012 Westminster Hall

[The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David Gauke)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Streeter. I congratulate the hon. Member for City of Durham (Roberta Blackman-Woods) on securing the debate, and thank all the hon. Members who have contributed. A number of factual questions have been asked about the operation of the policy on child benefit, and I shall deal with as many as possible.

The changes that we announced at Budget 2012 ensure a balance between reducing the cost to the Exchequer of child benefit and ensuring that those on low incomes will not be affected. I must put the measure in context; it is the consequence of the state of the public finances that the Government inherited. We have to make decisions because of the Budget deficit that we inherited—the largest in our modern history. It is, unfortunately, the British people who will have to pay for the debt left to us by the previous Administration.

[Fiona O'Donnell]

I follow the Minister’s argument about the need to reduce the deficit, but will he acknowledge that that is no excuse for a bad policy that even Members on his own side acknowledge is intrinsically unfair?

[Mr Gauke]

It is because of the state of the public finances that we must take difficult decisions. I will strongly defend the policy, but I must make the point to hon. Members who oppose it that it is helping us to reduce the deficit by £1.8 billion. If we do not find that sum in the way in question, we will need to find it somewhere else, or borrow more. That is the decision that we all face.

Finance (No. 4) Bill

Debate between David Gauke and Fiona O'Donnell

Thursday 19th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

I have to say that I have not. What I have heard from the Labour party is their resistance to any of our attempts to make our tax rates more competitive or to simplify our tax system.

[Fiona O'Donnell]

Perhaps I can make a helpful point to the Minister. Does he think it simplifies the tax system for 30,000 Scottish families to have to fill in a tax return to be entitled to child benefit?

[Mr Gauke]

I will deal with that in my remarks on child benefit, which we will debate shortly. The idea of people having the same personal allowance whether they are 64, 65 or 75 seems to me perfectly sensible.

The changes made by the clause will help ensure that people get the allowances to which they are entitled, pay the right amount of tax and make it more straightforward for Government to administer, thereby minimising costs to the taxpayer. A 2009 report from the Public Accounts Committee commented that the age-related allowances were

“complex and hard for older people to understand and place too much emphasis on older people having to prove their eligibility, resulting in errors in claims and potential overpayments of tax”.

In March this year, the Office of Tax Simplification published its interim report, “Review of Pensioner Taxation”, which highlighted no less than nine complexities in relation to the age-related personal allowance. One of the main sources of complication is the taper, which we have heard about in the debate this afternoon. The taper removes an individual’s personal allowance where their income exceeds £24,000 at a rate of £1 for every £2 over this limit, up to the point at which their personal allowance is the same as that for an individual born after 6 April 1948. This creates a 30% effective marginal rate of tax for individuals on relatively modest incomes and brings people into the self-assessment system when, in most cases, they would otherwise have no need to complete a tax return.

For some, in particular people whose tax affairs have previously been entirely dealt with under the PAYE system through their working lives, and who have therefore had nothing to do with HMRC, this can be a challenge. They now find themselves having to complete forms and tax returns for HMRC because they may be affected by the taper when they reach the age of 65. The changes made by the clause, alongside the increases that we have made to the personal allowance, mean that we can now simplify the system of personal allowances. This will remove complexity and confusion for some taxpayers. But nobody will lose out in cash terms as a result of these changes.

Let me emphasise that point. As a result of these changes, nobody will lose out in cash terms. In fact, half the people over 65 in 2013-14 will pay no income tax at all and are unaffected by these changes. Those who are affected by the withdrawal of age- related allowances will benefit from a £1,100 increase in the personal allowance.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Gauke]

For those who are in the tax credit system, we currently make an assessment of household income. If a person is not in the tax credit system, we do not make an assessment of household income and so have information only on individual income. Were we to try to do this on the basis of household income—I understand the argument made by hon. Members that that is the right thing to do—we would have to accept that that would involve putting everybody claiming child benefit, all 8 million, into the tax credit system which would be a substantial administrative burden on the state and on those individuals.

A number of points have been made in the course of the debate. Let me see whether I can pick up on those, rather than addressing every amendment. My hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope) argued that the provision should apply only to a household income of £100,000 or more. Not only would that result in the administrative challenge I have set out, but it would cost an additional £900 million, which would be unaffordable as well as impractical.

The hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Cathy Jamieson) asked about providing information at constituency level. We can release the information by region, but the survey data are simply not good enough at constituency level. I can say that 63,000 people in Scotland will gain as a result of the changes we announced in the Budget, compared with the previously announced policy. She asked what the £5 million for customer information will pay for. It includes provision for an online calculator and guidance for customers, and a letter that will go out in the autumn to all individuals above the higher rate threshold. We will also be updating existing guidance and testing it with customers, and there will be marketing spend to highlight the policy.

My hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch asked why the legislation refers to “high” rather than “higher”. He is right that “higher” is mentioned in some of the other documentation, but the point, which parliamentary counsel considered, is that “higher” begs the question, “higher than what?”, so we used “high”.

[Fiona O'Donnell]

Will the Exchequer Secretary give way?

[Mr Gauke]

I have only one minute remaining and want to address the concerns raised during the debate, so I will not give way.

The question was raised of classification and whether or not this was a tax. As my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch said, that will depend on the Office for National Statistics assessment. Let me deal with the question the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun asked. Independent taxation will still apply, each partner will still have their own personal allowance and tax rate bands, and the amount of child benefit, even if it is received by the taxpayer’s partner, will not increase the amount of income liable to tax. Where there are two high earners in a household and they do not want to tell each other their incomes, there will be a mechanism whereby they can find out whether they have a higher or lower income but without the full details.

Mr Hoyle, my time is up. As I have said, the Government have had to make difficult decisions. In order to continue to provide child benefit, we must do so in a sustainable manner. At the current cost that is not the case. We have increased the threshold to £50,000 and put in a taper. This all mitigates some of the concerns that hon. Members have raised, but the budget deficit left by the previous Administration is the challenge we must overcome if we are to avoid a far worse predicament.

Finance Bill

Debate between David Gauke and Fiona O'Donnell

Tuesday 28th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David Gauke)]

As we have heard, new clause 5 would introduce transferable personal allowances for married couples, allowing one spouse in all married couples to transfer unused personal allowance to the other. I am very grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) for tabling the new clause. It highlights an important point: that marriage is a positive institution, and one that the Government are committed to support.

We are keen to send a clear message that family and marriage matters, and that strong and healthy families help to create a strong and healthy society. In little more than a year, this Government have proved our determination to tackle the wider issues that can affect family stability.

[Fiona O'Donnell]

What message would the measure send to the woman who came my surgery on Friday, fleeing an abusive relationship to keep herself and her children safe?

[Mr Gauke]

It is of course important that we, as a society, do everything that we can for a woman in the circumstances that the hon. Lady describes. However, the Government also believe that the institution of marriage provides something to society that should be recognised. That is the thinking behind our policy. Of course we must help those in abusive relationships and do all we can to support them, but that does not preclude taking steps to support the institution of marriage. The Government recognise that.

Scotland Bill

Debate between David Gauke and Fiona O'Donnell

Monday 14th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Fiona O'Donnell]

Why did the Conservative members of the Bill Committee in the Scottish Parliament vote for the measures?

[Mr Gauke]

We will, of course, look at what the Scottish Parliament has set out and we will engage with those suggestions on alternative ways of proceeding. None the less, given the difficulties that would arise if bonds were issued, particularly in the circumstances we face—there is a crisis in the public finances and it is essential that we meet our fiscal mandate and stick to our spending and deficit reduction plans—we need to take into account the uncertainty and additional cost that could be created at this point. However, there is a general point to be made about borrowing limits. Circumstances will change and the opportunity for greater flexibility in future is something we are willing to look at, but we believe we have the balance right at the moment.