President Trump: State Visit

Debate between David Lammy and Simon Burns

Monday 20th February 2017 Westminster Hall

[Sir Simon Burns (Chelmsford) (Con)]

I guess I should start by declaring an interest: not simply do I have a deep antipathy towards President Trump, but I was prepared to more than just talk about it and I spent a considerable amount of time last year working for Hillary Clinton on her presidential campaign in New Hampshire, Wisconsin and South Carolina. I believed, as President Obama did during the 2016 campaign, that she was the most qualified candidate to run for President in the 20th century. As every day goes by—not least the past seven days—I am deeply grieved to see the opportunity that America sadly passed up for the person it chose, but we are where we are. Hillary Clinton got 2.8 million more votes, but the Americans elect their President not through who gets the most votes but through the electoral college. Those are the rules, and there is no point crying over spilled milk.

I will not rehearse all the reasons why any reasonable person should have significant doubts about Donald Trump, because they are sadly too well known. America has been our greatest ally for a considerable time: it stood shoulder-to-shoulder with us in our hour of need, as we did in its hour of need, particularly during 9/11, so it is to my mind foolish to allow our personal views and assessments of the more grotesque characteristics or behaviour of an individual to blur what is in Britain’s national interest. I believe it is in Britain’s national interest to continue the special relationship, as we did under most Prime Ministers since the second world war, with the possible exception of Sir Edward Heath.

[Mr Lammy]

I know the right hon. Gentleman’s deep affection for the United States—indeed, I have been with him at Democratic conventions in the past—but is the natural conclusion of his argument that the more offensive the American President and the more concerned we are as a nation about the person who has been elected, the quicker we should rush to give them a state visit? Is this debate really about the nature of how Donald Trump should come to this country?

[Sir Simon Burns]

If the right hon. Gentleman will bear with me, I will get on to the timing. He makes a valid point.

Regardless of what we think of Donald Trump as a man, I believe it is in our national interest to ensure we continue to be a candid friend to the United States. We should be respected by the United States and have the ability to talk to it candidly and explain when we believe it is getting it wrong or could be doing it better. We should ensure that it moderates its views to something more in keeping with what we believe is dignified and the correct way to behave. We cannot do that if we totally ignore the United States, write off the presidency and say, “The man is dreadful, so we shall have nothing to do with him.” We would become isolated and less influential, and that would not be in our national interest.

A number of hon. Members during the debate and outside the Chamber have questioned the timing. Frankly, it does not matter when one issues an invitation if one is trying to protect and develop our national interest. If we do it seven days into a presidency, we will be criticised; if we do it in 2020, we will be criticised for playing around with the American electoral system and helping the man in his presumed re-election bid.

Health (CSR)

Debate between David Lammy and Simon Burns

Thursday 11th November 2010 Westminster Hall

[Mr Burns]

No. I gave way to the right hon. Gentleman once and I said that I would then make progress, because the purpose of my speech is twofold: to outline our view on the subject—

[Mr Lammy]

What are you scared of?

[Mr Burns]

I am not scared of anything. The purpose of my speech is to outline the Government’s view on the subject, rather than simply, as in an Adjournment debate, answering every single point from hon. Members who have contributed. I will not fall into the trap of being sidetracked into answering, as in an Adjournment debate, all the points that have been raised. I will certainly deal with those that I can deal with in the time available, but I shall primarily give the Government’s view on the topic before us, so I beg some indulgence from hon. Members as they listen and learn why we have kept our pledge.

I shall start again. This year, before we spend a single penny on health, education, defence or anything else, we shall have to pay £43 billion simply to service the interest on our debts. That is £120 million a day and more than £83,000 a minute. Those who are mathematicians will realise that during this three-hour debate that will have cost us £15 million. The colossal debt racked up by the previous Government is crippling the country. That is why, through my right hon. Friend the Chancellor, we have had to act decisively to lay the foundations for setting the economy back on track. The country simply could not continue to sustain such debt and payment of debt interest.

When the Chancellor stood at the Dispatch Box last month to deliver the spending review, he set a course for sustainable finances. He set out our plans to turn the country round, so that by the end of this Parliament our national debt will be falling, instead of rising, as a proportion of national income. To achieve that, over the next four years we need to reduce public spending by £81 billion. Difficult decisions have had to be taken, and more lie ahead, but the result will be a strong economy, more jobs and sustainable public services. As I have said, just as important as reducing the deficit is protecting and improving the nation’s health.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Lammy and Simon Burns

Tuesday 7th September 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Burns]

I am extremely pleased to be able to give my hon. Friend some reassurance. South Central strategic health authority has informed me that the service to the people of Winchester will not be affected, as there will be static provision for Winchester; ambulances will be deployed via a control centre in Otterbourne, 2 miles from Winchester. Those changes are set to take place in December, and the existing station will not be closed until there is new provision.

[Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab)]

A decision has been taken in the past few days, without any consultation at all, to transfer the out-of-hours service for 950,000 north Londoners from the GP-run co-operative to a private provider. Will the Secretary of State intervene to ensure that local people and GPs make that determination?