Draft Scotland Clauses

Debate between David Mundell and Russell Brown

Thursday 22nd January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for advance sight of his statement.

Today we mark another milestone in the delivery of the vow made to the people of Scotland before the independence referendum in September. The timetable set out by my right hon. Friend the Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown) during the referendum campaign has now been exceeded at every stage, with a Command Paper on the process towards further powers just 25 days after the referendum; the conclusion of the Smith commission and agreement by all five of Scotland’s political parties before St Andrew’s day just 10 weeks after the referendum; and today, ahead of schedule, just 18 weeks after the referendum, the draft clauses that will form the basis of the next Scotland Bill.

Before I turn to our response to the draft clauses and the Command Paper laid before the House, I want to provide an absolute guarantee from the Labour Benches. As my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition has made clear on a number of occasions, the powers agreed by Smith will be delivered, and the next Labour Government will include a new Scotland Bill in our first Queen’s Speech. Labour created the Scottish Parliament in 1999, we supported more powers for the Parliament in 2012, and we will create a powerhouse Parliament with these new powers when we are in government.

Labour made it clear at the outset of the Smith commission process that we wanted a settlement that, first, respected the outcome of the referendum, namely a strong Scotland inside a UK where we pooled and shared risk; secondly, moved the maximum possible power from Westminster to the Scottish Parliament; and, finally, did not make Scotland worse off.

We are satisfied that the Smith commission delivered that outcome and we can say with confidence that with these clauses we will be delivering home rule—the full powers that Scotland needs. As the Command Paper notes, the powers the clauses will confer on the Scottish Parliament will mean that it will control about 60% of spending in Scotland and retain about 40% of Scottish tax. That will make it the third most powerful devolved Assembly in the OECD.

Before I turn to the detail of the clauses, I wish to press the Minister on two areas that I hope he will address in his reply. The Command Paper makes explicit reference to the Barnett formula and the agreement of all five parties during the Smith commission to its continuation. Can the Minister provide any more clarity about how the adjustment to the block grant will take place and how discussions with the Scottish Government to agree that are progressing?

I also wish to press the Minister on an item on page 40 of the Command Paper, which reproduces the following commitment from Smith:

“MPs representing constituencies across the whole of the UK will continue to decide the UK’s Budget, including Income Tax.”

Given the Chancellor’s comments at the Treasury Committee on Tuesday, can the Minister provide an absolute reassurance that that part of the Smith agreement will be respected, as it is not addressed in the paper?

I now wish to turn to the detail and the precise powers that the clauses will confer specifically over job creation, tax and social security. The clauses confer full power over income tax and a number of other taxes. We welcome the clarity provided by the Command Paper on the areas to be devolved. We welcome the extension of powers over VAT, which go further than the proposals of the Smith commission, but will the Minister explain why that change was made?

On welfare, the clauses will transfer extensive new powers on the Scottish Parliament, including powers worth £2.5 billion for welfare spending and the powers to create new benefits. Will the Minister confirm that the clauses as drafted respect the spirit and the letter of the Smith agreement and allow the Scottish Government to create new benefits? Will he also explain the process that will now be undertaken to examine in more detail the consequential arrangements to adjust the Scottish block grant to reflect what will now be devolved to the Scottish Parliament?

On job-creating powers, my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow East (Margaret Curran) has already raised with the Secretary of State, and at Scottish questions, our desire to see the job-creating powers of the Work programme passed to Scotland at the earliest opportunity. It continues to be our view that that could be achieved by using a section 106 order to transfer responsibility to the Scottish Government immediately. That would reduce any uncertainty about the effect of continuing contracts in Scotland and it would allow others to start to remedy the failure of this Tory Government’s Work programme in Scotland, which sees only one in five people into a job. Will the Minister consider again the introduction of those powers now?

Finally, I would welcome more clarity from the Minister on the devolution of the Crown Estate. Will he clarify the process that will be followed to determine the transfer scheme and how long it might take? Will he also explain how the Government will ensure that the Smith commission’s recommendation that the powers be further devolved to our island communities will be seen through? Many in our rural and island communities will want guarantees about the devolution of the Crown Estate and that the powers will be passed to the islands as both the UK and Scottish Governments promised during the referendum.

This is another milestone in Scotland’s home rule journey. The Smith agreement was the response to the call for change that we heard, and today one thing is clear: Scotland will have a powerhouse Parliament.

[David Mundell]

I very much welcome the hon. Gentleman’s commitment, and indeed that of his party both in Scotland and across the United Kingdom, to the implementation of the Smith commission proposals. The position could not be clearer: whichever party is in government after the next general election, the proposals will be taken forward in the Queen’s Speech.

The hon. Gentleman raised a number of issues. The Prime Minister, the Leader of the Opposition and the leader of the Liberal Democrats have made it very clear that the Barnett formula is here to stay. The discussions on the creation of the fiscal framework will have to take into account the additional revenue raised by the Scottish Parliament. It is very important for MPs from Scotland to make it clear to our colleagues that the Scottish Parliament’s additional ability to raise funds will not be in addition to the block grant that it receives, because an amount still to be calculated will be deducted from the block grant under the Barnett formula.

The hon. Gentleman raised the issue of VAT. The Smith commission clearly made a recommendation on the standard rate of VAT, and the Government feel that it is entirely consistent to apply the same recommendation to the lower rate—the 5% rate—of VAT. That will ensure that Scotland receives 50% of the revenue raised.

The hon. Gentleman raised several issues about the welfare proposals. We and the Scottish Government have established a joint welfare working group at ministerial level—I will co-chair it with Alex Neil, the Scottish Cabinet Secretary with responsibility for such matters—which will take forward some of the issues. I assure the hon. Gentleman that the Scottish Parliament will have full legislative responsibility for the Work programme. As I understand it—I will provide confirmation—my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has already written to the hon. Member for Glasgow East (Margaret Curran) to set out why he and the Government do not believe that the section 106 route is the right way to transfer the programme. If the letter has not already been delivered, I will ensure that the hon. Gentleman receives a copy.

Of course we will proceed on the basis of good faith in relation to the Scottish Government and further devolution within Scotland. The hon. Gentleman will be aware that the Scottish Cabinet is coming to Dumfries on Monday, which will be a good opportunity for the Scottish Government to demonstrate that they are listening to people outwith the central belt of Scotland. I am sure that they will discuss the Crown estate, which is certainly an important issue in my constituency.

If I have not covered all the points made by the hon. Gentleman, I will write to him about those matters.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Mundell and Russell Brown

Wednesday 26th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[David Mundell]

The Smith commission includes two representatives of the Scottish National party, and is seeking to reach cross-party agreement. What we all know is that 55% of people in Scotland—more than 2 million—voted to remain part of the United Kingdom.

[Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab)]

The Smith commission will report tomorrow. Its report will lay the foundations for greater devolution for Scotland and, hopefully, the devolution of powers from Edinburgh, at the centre, to a more local level. The Minister referred to a closer working relationship between the borderland areas in the north of England and the south of Scotland. Will he guarantee that whatever the Smith commission delivers will add up fiscally, to ensure that it does not work to the detriment of the people of Scotland?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Mundell and Russell Brown

Wednesday 2nd July 2014 Commons Chamber

[David Mundell]

I absolutely agree. Tens of thousands of Scots have benefited from the fact that we have raised the personal allowance. Roughly two thirds of those on the minimum wage are now paying significantly less tax than they were when this Government came to power.

[Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab)]

I know the Minister recognises that payment of the living wage will ease the pressures of the cost of living that many households experience, but in view of his recent admission to the Scottish Parliament’s Welfare Reform Committee that his Government’s benefits sanctions and welfare reforms have contributed to the increase in the number of food bank users, will he now apologise?

[David Mundell]

What I think politicians should apologise for is making the poor and most vulnerable into political footballs. Poverty is a scourge in our country, not an opportunity for a press release.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Mundell and Russell Brown

Wednesday 19th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[David Mundell]

My hon. Friend is exactly right, which is why I would have thought that even Opposition Members would welcome the fact that employment in Scotland has increased by 15,000 over the quarter, and that the Scots employment rate rose by 0.3%.

[Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab)]

Child poverty has long-lasting effects. By the age of 16, children receiving free school meals achieve significantly lower exam grades than their wealthier peers, and they leave school with fewer qualifications, which translates into lower earnings over the course of their working lives. Will the Minister speak with the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions and demand a proper start in life for all children, something that is threatened by this Government’s welfare reform programme?

[David Mundell]

I do not accept the claim that this Government are responsible for child poverty. I agree with the hon. Gentleman’s Dumfries and Galloway council colleague, Marion McCutcheon, who said that the only solution to child poverty is work. That is what this Government are delivering, with 15,000 more people in employment over the past quarter.

Scotland and North-east England Post-2014

Debate between David Mundell and Russell Brown

Tuesday 4th March 2014 Westminster Hall

[David Mundell]

I left the Scottish Parliament because I was elected to Westminster. I am a supporter of the Scottish Parliament. I want to remind our friends who are not usually part of this debate that the Scottish National party did not support the devolution proposal in 1997, or the Calman commission’s proposal to give the Scottish Parliament additional powers in 2012.

[Mr Russell Brown]

The Minister is painting a picture of where there have been significant improvements. There has been a devolution of power, yet under the SNP Government, we in Scotland are experiencing centralisation on a scale that has never been seen before.

[David Mundell]

The hon. Gentleman is right. Although he and I did not vote for the SNP Government in Edinburgh—nor did most people in Dumfries and Galloway—we are not saying that we should tear up the devolution settlement simply because we do not like the Government in Edinburgh. Rather, we are campaigning against the Government and saying that they should be changed. We are not tearing up our country simply because we do not believe in individual policies.

The hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar said that the only change that would come from independence is a change of Prime Minister—I think I heard him correctly, but I will check his words carefully, because I intend to have them printed out and distributed as widely as possible. He gave us the best case against independence that I have heard for some considerable time.

As a number of Members have said, like Scotland, the north-east benefits from the UK’s size and scale, and the ability to share risks and resources. Within the UK’s single market, we all benefit from close trading links, which continue to grow. The hon. Members for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Tom Blenkinsop), for Inverclyde (Mr McKenzie), and for Houghton and Sunderland South (Bridget Phillipson) made those points strongly. Scotland sold goods and services worth more than £45.5 billion to other parts of the UK in 2011; that is double what we sell to the rest of the world, and four times as much as we sell to the EU. About 30,000 people travel between Scotland and the rest of the UK to work each day.

The strong ties between Scotland and the north-east are clearly illustrated by the work of the “Borderlands” initiative. As a Member of Parliament for Dumfries and Galloway and the Scottish borders, I am keen to encourage that close cross-border work. We must bring more closely together the strategic interests on both sides of the border.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Mundell and Russell Brown

Wednesday 24th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[David Mundell]

The hon. Gentleman is misrepresenting the situation. Scotland will have flexibility to determine its own arrangements in relation to CAP reform.

[Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab)]

With rising food prices and food poverty, has the Minister made any representations to colleagues about the need to grow more food in Scotland?

[David Mundell]

The hon. Gentleman will know that in his constituency, as in my own constituency, there is a strong view that we should grow more of our own food. I encourage local farmers to do so.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Mundell and Russell Brown

Wednesday 13th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[David Mundell]

I welcome the Chancellor’s announcement that the A1 will become a motorway to Newcastle. He made it clear, I think in response to my right hon. Friend, that the Department for Transport would look at the case for dualling the A1 to the Scottish border.

[Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab)]

As chair of the all-party west coast main line group, I wrote to a Scottish Government Minister to ask what they were prepared to do with regard to investment for the HS2 route starting from the north. Is it not irresponsible that the Scottish Government will not answer that question on HS2, even though two city councils—Edinburgh and Glasgow—will discuss it?

[David Mundell]

I am disappointed that the hon. Gentleman, particularly in his capacity as chair of the all-party west coast main line group, has not had a response from the Scottish Government. As I indicated in my earlier answer, the UK Government are waiting for a response from the Scottish Government. We have made it absolutely clear that we want to work with them to ensure that the people of Scotland and the United Kingdom benefit from HS2.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Mundell and Russell Brown

Wednesday 9th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab)]

Although I recognise the important role that the Scottish Government play in the provision of broadband in rural areas—[Interruption.] I thought those cheers were for me. The Minister is fully aware that in areas such as his and mine, small and medium-sized enterprises depend upon good connectivity. What is his Department doing to ensure that the Scottish Government are delivering?

[David Mundell]

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that we will hold the Scottish Government to account for that investment. Although the UK Government have funded investment in the cities—in Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Perth—we want the Scottish Government to deliver for Dumfries and Galloway and equivalent rural areas throughout Scotland. [Interruption.]

Unemployment in Scotland

Debate between David Mundell and Russell Brown

Wednesday 5th December 2012 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (David Mundell)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Dorries. You are certainly the Member of Parliament my constituents most often ask me about, and I am sure they will be delighted to learn that you have chaired the debate today.

I congratulate the hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire (Gemma Doyle) on securing this important debate. Based on what has been said I feel that there might be little that we agree on, but I do agree on the importance of having a debate such as this here at Westminster, to focus on issues that are the responsibility of the UK Government, and also on the importance of Members from Scotland holding the Government to account for their policies and actions in Scotland.

I find it disappointing that the Scottish National party has not sought to contribute to this debate, other than through a few random interventions. I do not want to be in the position that the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Cathy Jamieson) spoke about, of blaming the other Government—the Government in Scotland—for everything that is going wrong, which would be to adopt the reality of Alex Salmond’s “plan McB”: to claim credit for everything that is good and to blame the Westminster Government for everything that is bad.

Opposition Members, other than the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun, to be fair, chose to use their contributions to blame both Governments for everything that is happening. As usual—I had no expectation otherwise—they took no responsibility whatever for the catastrophic state in which they left the UK economy when they left office in 2010. Indeed, we may hear once and for all an apology from the shadow Chancellor today for the state of the economy at that time, which would be good.

[Mr Russell Brown]

I recognise that the Minister and his colleagues are very good at talking about the mess that they were left, but will he share with the Chamber what the black hole was? What was that debt? If we remove from that debt what was provided to support the banks and the UK economy, how big really was that black hole?

[David Mundell]

There was a black hole because, for a significant period of time, the previous Government were spending more than they brought in. That is the reality, and the hon. Gentleman cannot pretend otherwise. Today we have heard various versions of the plan Labour now has to turn the economy around, but the core of that plan remains more spending, more borrowing and more debt—exactly the same prescription that brought the country to its current state.

Referendum (Scotland)

Debate between David Mundell and Russell Brown

Monday 15th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[David Mundell]

First, I refer the hon. Gentleman to polling in Scotland, which indicates that 16 and 17-year-olds do not support independence, and secondly I urge him to take his argument to Scotland—to the Scottish Parliament and his MSP colleagues there—to make that robust case.

[Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab)]

The Minister has heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North (Ann McKechin), my right hon. Friend the Member for Stirling (Mrs McGuire) and my hon. Friends the Members for Central Ayrshire (Mr Donohoe) and for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock (Sandra Osborne) about the issue of some 16 and 17-year-olds being disfranchised as a result of not being on the register. I am positive that, during the discussions that he and his colleagues have had, someone somewhere might have raised the issue of a legal challenge. Does he have any idea how much of a delay there might be, if there is a legal challenge?

[David Mundell]

First, my experience of the Labour party in Dumfries and Galloway is that it is very good at getting people on to the electoral register—and I am sure it will be so again in getting 16 and 17-year-olds registered. The Scottish Government will have to come forward with legally watertight proposals; otherwise, they will be subject to challenge. As we have heard, they could conduct the referendum on the basis of so-called attainers, by which is meant people who will turn 18 within the cycle of the electoral register. It is clear that that could be done legally, but the downside, from the Scottish Government’s point of view, is that not all 16 and 17-year-olds would be able to vote as not all of them would be on the register, because of that age limitation. The other option for them is to create their own register. But were they to do that they would have to be sure that it was legally watertight.

Scotland Bill

Debate between David Mundell and Russell Brown

Thursday 26th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[David Mundell]

It will obviously be for the Scottish Government to advise on changes to signage, among other things, that they make. Changes that are specific to Scotland can be included in the Highway Code, and we currently have differential traffic regulations in different parts of the United Kingdom. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman, like me, will have constituents who have fallen foul of the congestion charge that applies in London but nowhere else in the United Kingdom. There are differential traffic regulations in place at the moment, and these are well advertised.

[Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab)]

What discussions were held when it was decided that it would be the right thing to devolve the power that would allow the Scottish Government to determine what traffic should be flowing and at what speed? Was there any sense behind the decision that, for example, heavy goods vehicles should be allowed to travel at 60 mph on single track roads?

[David Mundell]

I share the hon. Gentlemen’s concerns about traffic speeds in our part of Scotland, Dumfries and Galloway, particularly on the A75. I hope that these powers will allow the Scottish Government for once to focus on Dumfries and Galloway and address such issues. They will have the powers and it will be for them to make the decisions. I commend my noble Friend Lord Forsyth for achieving this significant amendment to the Bill. It is the only amendment made during the passage of the Bill that will ensure that the powers of the Scottish Parliament are increased, and I do not think that the irony of that was lost on him.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Mundell and Russell Brown

Wednesday 27th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab)]

I recognise that the Minister has read the Gould report. Is he now saying that he disagrees with its central finding that two ballots on different issues in different systems should not be held on the same date?

[David Mundell]

I agree with Ron Gould’s submission to the Scottish Affairs Committee, in which he said that although he would prefer the referendum on AV and the Scottish elections to be held on different days, he saw no reason why they should not be held on the same day and did not anticipate that causing the same confusion that arose in 2007.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Mundell and Russell Brown

Wednesday 21st July 2010 Commons Chamber

[David Mundell]

As I said in my answer, a commission is to be established. This coalition Government, unlike the previous Government, are determined to deal with the issue.

[Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab)]

Can the Under-Secretary justify to his constituents the fact that he will not take part in such debates and such votes when he knows only too well that his constituents depend on health service provision in Cumbria and further education support from Cumbria? Is it not right that he takes an interest in what is happening this side of the border?

[David Mundell]

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that I will be taking an interest in the resolution of the West Lothian question. The hon. Gentleman agreed with Lord Derry Irving when he said that the only answer to the West Lothian question was not to ask it.