Taxes

David Pinto-Duschinsky Excerpts

Wednesday 12th November 2025 Commons Chamber

[David Pinto-Duschinsky (Hendon) (Lab)]

You have mentioned the £47 billion of savings, but you have neglected to identify the number of teachers—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

Order. If the hon. Gentleman had been here for more of the debate, he would have heard that I am being particularly pernickety about the use of the word “you”. I have not identified anything this afternoon, and I do not intend to do so. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will make his intervention short, given his short tenure in the Chamber this afternoon.

[David Pinto-Duschinsky]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I apologise. The hon. Member has not mentioned how many teachers, how many doctors and how many police would be involved.

[Joe Robertson]

The reason I have not identified any doctors, teachers or police is the fact that there are none to identify. The savings of £47 billion have been listed by the shadow Chancellor. They include cuts to the civil service in Whitehall—I suspect that the hon. Gentleman’s Government may be dragged kicking and screaming to cut it, in some way at some point, by us—and they also include £23 billion of cuts in the welfare bill. It is the right thing to do to incentivise work and lift people from welfare into work, something in which the hon. Gentleman’s party used to believe. One way of doing that is making employers want to employ people, but the Chancellor, in her last Budget, disincentivised work, because she taxed work by raising national insurance contributions. As we stand today, there are 180,000 fewer people on the payroll than there were when this Government came in, and it is no surprise that the economy is grinding to a halt.

In fact, the Government are doing worse through the Department for Business and Trade, by introducing an Employment Rights Bill that will further disincentivise work. It has disincentivised people, young people in my constituency, from finding a seasonal summer job, because it has lowered the hourly threshold at which national insurance contributions come in, so it is less beneficial to employ people for fewer hours and, indeed, younger people, who used to be cheaper to employ while they were between education and full-time work.

As was explained so eloquently earlier by my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport (Dame Caroline Dinenage), it is the unintended consequences that have really damaged the economy and made it harder to employ people—although she was, I think, generous in describing them as unintended consequences, given that the Chancellor, the Treasury and the Government should know the consequences of their policy decisions. It makes me wonder whether they were in fact reckless, and were quite happy for businesses to soak up the additional cost and come back to the taxpayer for more money.

I urge those on the Government Benches—very few of whom are present today—to maximise all possible pressure on their Chancellor to do the right thing by their constituents and the British people.

--- Later in debate ---

[Laurence Turner]

When Opposition Members talk about defenestration, I do listen—because of their greater expertise in these matters. And, of course, “What’s past is prologue”—the hon. Gentleman tempts me to get on to the Zinoviev letter, but that might be one for another day. However, I have actually made only one brief reference to the last Government’s record. We are scrutinising their motion and their proposals; this is an Opposition day debate, and that is a proper function of Parliament.

The other part of the Opposition’s document that I want to comment on is their intention to axe 132,000 civil servants. Some of those people are my constituents—as has already been noted. Not only is this pledge a rehash of a “here today, gone tomorrow” promise once announced by Boris Johnson and never seen again, but it is unclear where exactly the Opposition see those job cuts falling. Is it the additional trade and customs officials hired since 2016? Is it the additional Department for Education staff hired as a result of academisation—effectively a transfer of functions from local government to central Government? Is it the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government staff hired as a result of the growth in statutory burdens on our local authorities? I think all our constituents who work in those roles deserve at least clarity on what the Opposition’s intentions are.

[David Pinto-Duschinsky]

Does my hon. Friend agree that it is interesting that the Conservatives have put forward lots of fantasy proposals about various cuts they cannot make, yet strangely failed to mention any of the covid money that went missing on their watch, or its recovery?

[Laurence Turner]

My hon. Friend is right, and we could all point to examples of waste and inefficient spending under the previous Government. That is, of course, part of the context of where we find ourselves today, as are the £9.5 billion of undisclosed spending pressures that were withheld by the Treasury on their watch from the Office for Budget Responsibility.

I will just say this before concluding, because it has been part of the debate: we are today in a pre-Budget debate, and no Back Bencher knows the contents of what will be announced. But when we do look back on the past in that reflective way, I think the right hon. Member for New Forest East (Sir Julian Lewis) had—

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Shastri-Hurst]

The hon. Member may have forgotten the covid pandemic that swept this country, which of course turned the tables, and difficult decisions had to be made.

[David Pinto-Duschinsky]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Dr Shastri-Hurst]

No, I want to make this point. The difference is that the Chancellor told the media last year that the buck stops with her. She has to own these decisions.

As I say, people in this country are asked to live within their means, and they make sacrifices and plan for contingencies. They expect the Government to do the same, so when the Chancellor promises not to borrow more and not to tax more, the country should be able to take her at her word. Such promises are bonds of trust between the Government and the people.

I have a certain degree of sympathy for Labour Members, who have been put in an invidious position. They have been asked to break a promise that they made to their constituents and their country. I ask them to look into their hearts, and to think about whether this is really what they want to be remembered for. Will they show the leadership, the independence of thought and the resolve to vote for this motion?