Environment Bill (Third sitting)

Deidre Brock Excerpts

Thursday 12th March 2020 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

Thank you. Diedre Brock, do you have any questions?

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

Not particularly at this time.

[The Chair]

In that case, I call Robbie Moore.

--- Later in debate ---

[Rebecca Pow]

Q Can I quickly follow up on something? In the light of what you have all said, we already have a pretty heavy legislative framework for water and the water space; we already have water management plans, catchment plans—a raft of information—which is why a lot of that is not reiterated in the Bill. The message I am getting from you is that there are myriad targets that we could set. I would say that the Bill offers the opportunity later to set any targets that we want. Do you agree that it is good that a water target will be set in the beginning? I think our marine lady particularly welcomed that. This shows how complicated setting targets is, and that we would need to take a great deal of advice in the secondary stage of the Bill in order to do that. This is what the Bill offers us the opportunity to do. Do you welcome that general approach?

Stuart Colville: Yes, I completely agree.

Chris Tuckett: Yes. If I could add to that, the additional thing that the Bill will potentially bring is teeth to some of those targets. The water framework directive target is for 2027. Who knows whether we will get there; we have missed a number of points along the way. It is the same with the marine strategy framework directive. When I talk about good environmental status, that is related to marine strategy. The targets are there—there is a ream of targets—but the regulatory bite and the consequences of the targets not being achieved is missing. If we could bring that through, that would be great, and a huge improvement.

Ian Hepburn: I would add very quickly that the opportunity for interim targets to be set and managed over a shorter timescale than the one global target ought to be taken advantage of.

[Deidre Brock]

Q I have been doing quite a lot of work examining issues around munitions dumps around the coast of the UK. In fact, I called for an environmental audit—on both land and sea—of the Ministry of Defence’s activities. Clause 18 excludes

“the armed forces, defence or national security”

and

“taxation, spending or the allocation of resources within government”

from the scope of the policy statements. I am interested to hear your thoughts on that.

Chris Tuckett: I have to confess that it is not something that I have scrutinised; I should have. Munitions dumps, disused landfill sites, unclaimed landfill sites are potentially a risk to the environment in the round. Where there is coastal erosion, they are absolutely a risk to the marine environment. If there are loopholes in the Bill in relation to those sorts of risks, and there is the opportunity to deal with those loopholes here, we absolutely should. But we must look at it in the round, because there are a number of different sorts of sites that are like that.

Ian Hepburn: I do not see a reason for having gaps in terms of responsibility. There is a potential impact on the environment. They may be treated slightly differently, perhaps because of their special positions, but I do not see a reason why there should be a gap.

[Deidre Brock]

Q You think a blanket exemption is not appropriate.

Chris Tuckett: The environment does not see any difference, does it?

[Saqib Bhatti (Meriden) (Con)]

Q Mr Colville, you spoke about the water industry. Do you agree the Bill is a step forward with respect to the regulation of the water industry? Obviously, the current process can constrain water companies and increase uncertainty about regulation and so on, but bringing the process in line with other sectors can strengthen Ofwat’s ability to improve the way water companies operate and the information they receive.

Stuart Colville: You are referring specifically to the changes to licence amendments and the process around that.