Tobacco and Vapes Bill

Earl Howe Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 27th October 2025 Grand Committee

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, we were talking about the issue of one person almost the same age as another person having less freedom of choice. The point is that once you are addicted to nicotine, your freedom of choice is extremely limited, as we have just heard from my noble friend Lady Northover. She gave the example of her nephew, who found it extremely difficult to give up. My late mother-in-law was in the same position. She tried to give up smoking until she died—and she died of smoking, sadly.

It is very important that we have a robust system of enforcement. I look forward to hearing the Minister telling us about it, and what future measures the Government might take to reduce the number of illicit cigarettes—although I am told that it has declined by about 90% since 2000. One or two noble Lords mentioned the case in Australia. The fact is that it was a lack of robust enforcement that caused the problem in Australia. Despite that, the amount of people smoking has indeed gone down—but I agree with noble Lords who say that we need strong enforcement. When it comes to a smoker who, let us say, is my age, or who will be my age in many years’ time, who needs to provide some kind of ID, as long as it is not absolutely mandated, I am sure that some form of ID will be devised by clever people for those aged 82, and it will not be very difficult for them; they will just be able to do it, and that will sort that problem out altogether.

As noble Lords might have gathered, I support the Government’s generational approach to reaching the point of a smoke-free Britain. It is a public health crisis, as is obesity, on which the Government also need to take action. Lots of amendments are coming up about various aspects that have been mentioned today, such as age-gating, which we will discuss in greater detail. This has been a very extensive and passionate debate. I must say that I find myself a little surprised that so many of former Prime Minister Rishi Sunak’s party are so against what the Government are trying to do achieve his ambition. However, I shall leave it at that.

[Earl Howe (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Murray for bringing forward the amendments in his name, because he has allowed us to begin this Committee by engaging with one of the central and, dare I say, most controversial pillars of this Bill: the generational smoking ban. It is fitting that we start with this big policy issue, because the clause goes to the very heart of what the Government are seeking to do in creating what they describe as a smoke-free generation.

Before I turn to the points made in the debate, it is worth reminding ourselves of the context in which we are discussing the Bill—and a number of noble Lords have underlined that context. Smoking remains the single biggest entirely preventable cause of illness, disability and death in our country. It kills some 80,000 people each year. It costs our NHS and social care systems more than £3 billion annually. Someone is admitted to hospital because of smoking almost every minute. It shortens lives, it devastates families, and it deepens inequality. Yet, as we debate this issue, we can recognise that, happily, the direction of travel is positive. Smoking rates have been falling: in 1990, nearly one in three adults smoked, but, today, that figure stands at just above one in 10. The number of children who smoke is falling as well.

Those are not arguments for complacency or for not legislating, but nor are they arguments for legislating carelessly. My noble friend Lord Murray asked some pertinent questions for the Minister to answer, in particular on the Windsor Framework and the dangers of a burgeoning illicit market, but, more generally, he was surely right to challenge the Government to explain exactly how the generational ban will operate. I say that he is right, because the proposal will represent a profound shift in how the law treats adults. It will, for the first time, make a permanent legal distinction between two adults, based solely on their dates of birth. One person aged 35, say, will be permitted to buy a legal product, while another person aged 34 will put a tobacconist in criminal jeopardy for selling him precisely the same product.

I emphasise that I pay tribute to my right honourable friend the former Prime Minister. Nevertheless, serious practical questions arise from that distinction, quite apart from the questions around discrimination throughout this Bill, to which we need—I say this to the Minister—to face up. Some of those questions have already been foreshadowed by my noble friends Lord Murray and Lord Moylan but, as a starter, let me pick up the question of enforcement, which came up in the contribution from the noble Lord, Lord Scriven. How exactly do the Government intend these measures to be policed? How much responsibility will fall on shopkeepers, how much on trading standards and how much on the police?

Then there is the impact on retailers. How will small and independent retailers be supported to implement the new age checks and avoid inadvertent breaches of the law? Are we just going to leave them to cope as best as they can? Importantly, there is also the question of public understanding. How will the Government communicate to the public, especially younger adults, that some people of more or less the same age may face entirely different legal restrictions?

Can the Minister confirm one point of detail, which we discussed in our meetings on the Bill ahead of Committee? Will a person born on or after 1 January 2009 be permitted to sell tobacco products to someone born before that date? In other words, will someone who is themselves legally prohibited from purchasing tobacco still be able to serve or sell such products to others who remain entitled to buy them? That may seem a minor question, but it is one of the many practical questions that shopkeepers and retailers are already asking. The answer will affect staffing and hiring practices. What age will an employee of a tobacconist have to be to handle tobacco sales? Those are not arguments against the generational ban, but I hope that the Minister can address these concerns in her reply.

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[Earl Howe (Con)]

My Lords, the amendments in this group relate in different ways to age verification and the role of retailers and how these new rules will be implemented, monitored, enforced and supported in practice. I begin by thanking my noble friends Lord Moylan, Lord Lansley and Lord Young of Cookham, as well as the noble Viscount, Lord Hanworth, and—through the noble Baroness, Lady Northover—the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Brixton, for their thoughtful and varied contributions. Noble Lords have raised from different angles the same essential question: how can we make sure that the Bill works, not just in principle but in practice, and that those on the front line of enforcement are properly supported in the roles that they perform?

I start with Amendments 3 and 17 from my noble friend Lord Moylan, which would ensure that any regulations specifying methods of age verification were made under the affirmative resolution procedure and would implement a greater age threshold during the interim period. I fully support my noble friend. These regulations should be made subject to the affirmative procedure. The powers that we are talking about are far from minor; they will determine how retailers verify a customer’s age, what technologies can be used and what systems are deemed compliant. The verification methods will be central to the success and fairness of the new regime, and it is therefore right that they should be subject to proper parliamentary scrutiny before coming into force, not least because the technology in this space is evolving rapidly and the decisions that the Government make on this front will have real implications for retailers and enforcement bodies as well as consumers. I suggest that it is becoming even more important, given the Government’s announcement around a national digital ID.

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[Earl Howe (Con)]

My Lords, I turn next to my noble friend Lord Lansley’s amendments, which would introduce requirements and provide enabling powers for age-verification technology to be built into vaping devices themselves. This proposal opens up all sorts of interesting avenues of thought. The idea of age-gating devices, using technology to prevent use by those who are underage, is innovative by any standards. As we heard from my noble friend, there is already at least one technology that would facilitate this; like him, I am led by the manufacturers to understand that it has been successfully trialled in the United States.

There could be distinct advantages to such a system: it would close a loophole that rogue sellers currently exploit; it would be more effective as a way of reducing the incidence of underage vaping; it could avoid unpleasant confrontations in retail stores, about which we know retailers are very worried; and, as my noble friend said, it would not affect the way in which adults use vapes as a way of quitting smoking. From the Government’s point of view, an amendment along the lines of my noble friend’s would act as a form of future-proofing the Bill, because it would enable them to regulate the technology in devices or packaging— a power that this Bill does not currently give them. Can the Minister tell us whether the Government have considered systems of this kind and whether officials are aware of developments in this field?

I turn to the amendment in the name of the noble Viscount, Lord Hanworth, which calls for a review of age-verification methods. The Committee will be grateful to him for raising this idea; it links into my noble friend Lord Lansley’s amendment, but it also speaks to the crucial principle that we must remain properly informed about how these measures will work in practice. This Bill introduces a major new regulatory framework, so it has to be monitored and tested against real-world evidence. Age verification will, as I have said, be central to the Bill’s success, so we need credible and accurate systems to facilitate it. The noble Viscount is therefore right to emphasise the need to engage directly with those on the front line: the retailers who will have to implement these rules every day. Their experience will be one of the best indicators of whether the system is working as intended.

I turn to the amendments in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Brixton, introduced by the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, which seek to place a statutory requirement on businesses to operate age-verification policies in England and Wales. These are well-intentioned amendments, and we share entirely the objective of preventing underage sales. However, as I read it, the Bill as drafted already makes it an offence to sell tobacco or vaping products to anyone below the legal age and provides for a due diligence defence for retailers who have taken all reasonable precautions. In practice, that means having and enforcing an age-verification policy, which is the very outcome that these amendments seek to achieve. The familiar Challenge 25 model is already a well-established part of a range of retailer compliance. So, although we understand and respect the motivation behind these amendments, we do not believe that it is necessary to restate these duties in the Bill.

I welcome the amendment from my noble friend Lord Young of Cookham, which would prohibit the online sale of tobacco products. This raises serious and timely questions around enforcement, fairness and the protection of legitimate retailers. My noble friend put his case very well. Online sales prevent a potential route for illicit or underage trade; as purchasing habits continue to shift online, that risk will surely only increase. We therefore see every benefit in exploring whether a prohibition or stricter control of online sales is appropriate.

If I were to voice a caveat, which I am sure my noble friend would not object to, it would be that we must always ensure that law-abiding retailers—those who comply with the law and operate responsibly—are not disadvantaged. Any new regulation has to be clear, enforceable and fair. The central question here is: has the Minister given any thought to this issue? If so, what capacity do the Government have to enforce a measure such as the one suggested by my noble friend? What mechanisms exist to distinguish legitimate traders from those operating illicitly? Can we control online sales in the way we would like to do? I am sure that the Minister will be the first to recognise that, if unregulated online trade becomes a loophole—indeed, it already is—it will seriously undermine the objectives of the Bill.

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

My Lords, this group of amendments addresses the important topics of age verification and online sales. I am grateful to all noble Lords for not just their contributions but the intent behind these amendments—an intent that I have heard as being presented to assist the Bill. I am grateful for noble Lords’ considerations; I have certainly heard the support given by the noble Lord, Lord Bourne, to a number of these amendments.

I turn to Amendments 24 and 25 tabled by my noble friend Lord Davies of Brixton, who is not able to be in his place. We wish him well. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, for presenting these amendments, which would introduce a requirement for a person carrying on a business selling tobacco, herbal smoking, vaping or nicotine products, in England or Wales, to operate an age-verification policy. I certainly welcome the intention to prevent underage sales and to express a view—as I have heard not just from the noble Baroness but from other noble Lords—about supporting retailers to do the job that we are asking of them. I associate myself with that, but we believe that the Bill’s current provisions are sufficient in this regard.

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I turn to my noble friend Lady Northover’s amendment on communications strategy. One of the ways in which the Government need to invest is in an effective communications strategy. Over the years, tobacco manufacturers have spent millions on advertising their products—much of it misleading, such as the earlier claims on the so-called health benefits of filters; although that has stopped now, some people still believe it. So it is time to turn the tables and invest in making people aware of the dangers, for both health and personal wealth, of smoking. For young people, perhaps the most effective communication will be if some celebrities and influencers whom they admire and with whom they identify could be persuaded to make it uncool to smoke; that is what I would like to see contained in a communications strategy.

[Earl Howe (Con)]

My Lords, as we have heard, the amendments in this group engage with some of the central questions in the Bill: how can we reach a smoke-free future? Also, how is that process to be monitored, communicated and, in some cases, accelerated?

I begin with the amendments in the names of my noble friend Lord Young and the noble Baronesses, Lady Northover and Lady Grey-Thompson, which would require the Government to publish regular reports setting out a road map to a smoke-free United Kingdom, together with a communications plan, to support the implementation of a smoke-free generation policy. We on these Benches welcome the principle that underpins these amendments; they are thoughtful, constructive and rooted in the simple but vital idea that Parliament’s responsibility does not end when a Bill becomes law. Once legislation is enacted, our duty of oversight begins. A five-yearly report outlining the Government’s road map—including interim targets and data disaggregated by region, age and demographic group—would help provide a picture of how well the Act was working and enable Parliament to see whether progress was genuinely being made, particularly among communities where smoking rates remain stubbornly high.

Equally, the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, which would require a communications plan, is extremely sensible. The success of the Government’s policy will depend as much on public understanding as on the legal framework itself. People must know what is changing, why it is changing and what the benefits are. I made this point earlier but, if the policy is to succeed to the maximum extent, it must carry consent—and that consent depends on clarity and effective communication from the Government. If we are to measure the success of the policy honestly, we also need to assess not just how far smoking rates have fallen but whether the problem has simply been pushed underground, and we need to do so at regular intervals.

I shall cover briefly the amendment in the name of my noble friend Lord Bethell, which would establish a universal prohibition on the sale of tobacco products from 2040. My noble friend made a closely argued case. I recognise his sincere commitment to public health and his aim is admirable; notwithstanding that, I am afraid that I cannot support his amendment. The Government’s generational approach, for all its complexity, is precisely that: generational. It is designed to allow the harmful habit of smoking to decline naturally as fewer people take it up. The goal of a smoke-free future is the same but it is achieved through prevention and behavioural change, not a single act of prohibition.