Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Ed Davey and Gavin Williamson(12 years, 10 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Davey
The hon. Gentleman is quite right. He knows that I met him and other members of the all-party group on debt and personal finance to discuss that very issue. He will know of my concern about it, which was shared across the meeting. When we respond to the call for evidence on consumer debt and personal solvency, we will have a lot to say about that very issue.
Gavin Williamson (South Staffordshire) (Con)
T5. We all welcome the fantastic news from Nissan and BMW, but we want to see automotive investment in the west midlands. Will the Minister assure the House that he and his officials are doing all that they can to attract automotive investment into the west midlands?
Country of Origin Marking
Debate between Ed Davey and Gavin Williamson
Gavin Williamson
My hon. Friend touches on an important point. Indeed, supposing I went back to my old trade of being a potter and I set up a company called Gavin Williamson English Chinaware, what country does my hon. Friend the Minister think a plate sold by my company would have been produced in?
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Mr Edward Davey)
I think my hon. Friend is asking a rhetorical question, and I would like him to give the House the answer.
Gavin Williamson
My hon. Friend gives a very wise response. The simple reality is that such a plate could come from any country. It would not have to come from England, which is a great tragedy, because that is misleading consumers. We should treat customers with honesty and dignity so that they can make their choices on prices, design, value and so much more.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Mr Edward Davey)
I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for South Staffordshire (Gavin Williamson) on raising this issue and on the passion with which he spoke. I am aware of his background in the ceramics industry, and he has shown the House his knowledge this evening. Ceramics is a UK sector with a well-deserved worldwide reputation for the design and quality of its products. It is also a sector that has had to restructure, often painfully, to remain competitive and successful in the global marketplace. I am also aware of the importance that the UK ceramics sector attaches to the clear origin marking of its products, and its strong, consistent support for the European Commission’s proposal for an EU regulation on the compulsory labelling of certain imported products.
I share my hon. Friend’s pride in products that are made in Britain. The Department for Business, Innovation and Skills is also proud of Britain, and we have been showcasing British design, engineering and manufacturing in exhibitions every two months in the entrance to the BIS headquarters across Parliament square at No. 1, Victoria street. Those exhibitions have been a celebration of the success of UK engineers and manufacturers. The companies’ products that were showcased were excellent examples of cutting-edge UK innovation and ones that were vital to contributing to a low-carbon future. The companies have come from a cross-section of UK manufacturing and, in the context of this debate, I am extremely pleased that one of the leading UK ceramics companies—Dudson, one of the world’s leading specialists in the manufacture of ceramic tableware—has been part of the showcase. Other UK ceramics producers have a similar global reputation. We are proud of British manufacturing, and my hon. Friend rightly referred to what the Chancellor of the Exchequer said in his Budget speech about driving the UK back into growth through proclaiming what is made in Britain, invented in Britain and designed in Britain.
The Government are not opposed to labelling, or to labels such as “Made in England”, “Made in Scotland”, “Made in Wales” or “Made in Northern Ireland”. That is positive country of origin marking, and it should be done because UK manufacturers believe that it is the right thing to do, for themselves and for their customers. That does not need legislation, however; it can be done voluntarily. There is no legal bar to such marking, and many producers already do it. Of course, in most circumstances, there is no legal requirement in the UK or anywhere else in the European Union for goods to be marked with an indication of their origin, but producers may do so if they wish. If overseas competitors see origin marking as a marketing benefit, they will follow suit. It is essential for the consumer that any such labelling is clear and accurate, and does not mislead. Indeed, it is a criminal offence under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Practices Regulations 2008 to give consumers misleading information. However, it is important to recognise that UK business, including the ceramics sector, operates in a global economy. The days when the majority of goods bought by British people were manufactured here have unfortunately passed. The UK is a trading nation, and it relies on open global markets, as I am sure my hon. Friend recognises. This provides consumers with benefits such as lower prices and greater choice through variety, quality and price of products.
I agree about providing appropriate consumer information, but we must be clear about what is important to the consumer. A Eurobarometer survey across all 27 EU member states last autumn asked a number of questions about consumers’ purchasing attitudes towards country of origin labelling. I accept that the ceramics sector was not covered by the survey. However, in relation to textiles and clothing, 75% of those questioned said that origin did not affect their purchasing decisions. For electronic products, the figure was 68%. That is not to dismiss my hon. Friend’s comments; I simply want to highlight the need to be clear about how consumers rank price, design, brand name and origin in their purchasing decisions.
Gavin Williamson
Does my hon. Friend accept that country of origin labelling is even more important for luxury products, to which this country is increasingly geared to manufacture? That is why we need to be proud and specific about what is produced in this country and to protect that market.
Mr Davey
As I said, the hon. Lady knows that British manufacturers are completely free to put country-of-origin markings on their products. Many of them, particularly in the ceramics industry, believe that so doing gives them a marketing edge. I will come on to deal with the European Commission proposal, which both the hon. Lady and my hon. Friend mentioned. It is important to do so because that is part of the policy debate on which we are focused.
As currently drafted, the EC proposal would require the compulsory country of origin marking of certain imported, mainly consumer products. It might well be to this matter that my hon. Friend is directing his remarks. Let us be clear about what these products are. They include crushed and finished leather, including footwear components, saddlery and travel goods; textiles, clothing and footwear; ceramic products, glassware, jewellery, furniture and brooms and brushes. Those items are all defined by customs code classification. In the case of ceramics, the Commission proposal covers floor and wall tiles, tableware, kitchenware and giftware.
The European Parliament, voting on the draft regulation last autumn, proposed that the scope should be narrowed to cover only end-consumer products. This would limit it to products subject to further processing or assembly in the EU, although some flexibility was proposed for certain textile and footwear components. At the same time, the European Parliament proposed adding to the list of products covered by the regulation: tyres for agricultural vehicles, tyres for forestry vehicles; certain inner tubes; metal fasteners such as screws, nuts and bolts; non-electric hand tools; furniture casters; and taps, cocks and valves.
The House will perhaps understand from that list one of the reservations held by the UK about this proposal. It is the absence of any objective criteria for determining why a particular product is or is not within the scope of the proposed regulation. In our view, it is not enough that a particular EU industry believes that its imported competition should be origin-labelled. At the moment, the best the Commission have offered as “criteria” is where its consultation has shown that there was “value-added” by requiring origin marking. Even the Commission admits that this is a pretty loose criterion. The European Parliament has not even addressed the issue, so I invite suggestions from my hon. Friend—perhaps he is about to make one—and others, on what might constitute meaningful and objective criteria in this regard.
Gavin Williamson
I must confess that I am no expert on the numerous EU regulations, but I have always believed that this Parliament is sovereign. If we think that we have a good idea that will benefit British business—that consumer products coming into this country or manufactured in this country should have country of origin labelling—let us just ignore the EU, create our own Bill and put it on the statute book. I say we should just ignore Brussels, start from scratch and enact what we think will make a difference for Britain.
Mr Davey
I think that my hon. Friend misunderstands the position. It seems to be Brussels that agrees with him and, I am afraid, his Government who do not. I do not think that he can blame Brussels, and indeed I expected him to pray Brussels in aid. He, like Brussels—or some parts of it—wants to regulate, while the Government are saying that we want to think twice before adopting the regulatory route. I hope he recognises that the premise of his intervention is not entirely valid.
Mr Davey
The position is quite complicated. We are discussing the current European Commission proposal about country of origin marking on goods imported from outside the EU. The hon. Member for South Norfolk (Mr Bacon)—whose point has been repeated by the hon. Member for Sherwood (Mr Spencer)—was referring to agricultural products imported within the European Union, from other EU countries. That involves a slightly different regime. The United Kingdom has supported a political agreement on the “Food information for consumers” dossier, and we are pleased to see that it has reached the second reading stage.
I hope that the hon. Gentleman will not question me in much more detail, because this is a matter on which Ministers in the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs are focusing. I think I have it made clear that his question relates to a different issue, to which a different approach is taken. I should add that my wife never allows me to buy any pork other than British, and that I would not want to do so anyway.
The proposal that may well have sparked tonight’s debate was originally presented by the Commission in 2005. At that time, it provoked a very mixed response from member states. Many saw it as primarily a protectionist measure, because its origins lay in concern in the Italian textiles and clothing sector about imports from China. Others argued that there was a need to address persistent breaches of copyright and design protection in relation to consumer products. That was coupled with the view that consumers needed such information to avoid being misled about the origin of products. While the UK recognises the validity of all of those concerns, we do not believe that this proposal is the best way of addressing them, and we continue to have strong reservations about it.
Gavin Williamson
I too have some reservations. What I was trying to convey in my earlier intervention is that I would always be very sceptical about whether anything that came out of Brussels was a good idea. Why do we not put together our own set of proposals for Britain, building on what is good in the EU proposals, and put them on our statute book?
Mr Davey
I think that my speech will deal with many of the issues that my hon. Friend has raised. I am afraid that he is in danger of supporting the Brussels-based regulation while the Government support a British deregulatory approach, but I hope that as I continue my speech I may be able to win him round to our approach.
As I have said, we have strong reservations about the proposal, but, unlike some member states, the UK does not oppose it outright. The Government have been ready to engage directly with the Commission and supporters of the proposal, notably Italy, and to explore ways forward. My Department consulted widely when the proposal was first issued. We consulted UK business and other interests, including other interests within Government, and that consultation has been repeated on a number of occasions to ensure that we remain abreast of the latest developments.
A clear majority of UK interests were, and remain, opposed to the Commission’s proposal. They include the CBI, the British Chambers of Commerce, the British Retail Consortium, the hallmarking association, and a number of sector as well as consumer interests. Within Government, the UK Intellectual Property Office and Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs have also consistently opposed the proposal.
Employment Law (Businesses)
Debate between Ed Davey and Gavin Williamson(13 years, 5 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Mr Edward Davey)
I congratulate the hon. Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) on securing this debate, which is very timely in the light of the ongoing debate on growth strategy. It gives me an opportunity to reassure him that since taking office as a Minister, I have spent quite a large amount of time on beginning the employment law review. I think he will understand that I am not able to give the details of that review until we publish the consultation document, which I expect to happen early in the new year. Obviously, we have to discuss this with colleagues around Government. When we do publish it, he will see that it is the first stage in reviewing employment law, but that we are tackling one of the key concerns of employers, particularly in small and medium-sized enterprises, in a balanced and pro-growth way.
I assure the hon. Gentleman that this Government have an absolute commitment to creating the best possible business environment, so that the UK economy can recover and grow and the private sector can prosper in the long term. We have made it very clear that private sector jobs are where we see the big growth happening as we tackle the budget deficit.
Gavin Williamson
Does my hon. Friend agree with the words of Lord Young this week? He said that fewer employment regulations would always stimulate more employment.
Mr Davey
I had the pleasure of meeting Lord Young in my office earlier this week to begin our work together. I said many things to him, but I did not say that when I was studying economics at night school at Birkbeck, I had the pleasure of studying under Professor Snower, who, as I am sure the hon. Gentleman is aware, developed the theory of insider-outsider analysis. That states that when we are thinking about employment creation, we should always remember the outsiders—the people who are unemployed. One of the great things about taking a more robust approach to employment law is that it will help job creation. That is good for businesses, of course, but it is also good for the unemployed. Those who are elected to this House to represent the unemployed must remember that ensuring that they have work is an important part of what this Government are about.
A flexible labour market that strikes the right balance between the rights of individuals and the needs of business is an essential part of our economic framework. The hon. Member for Skipton and Ripon rightly said that things have slipped in recent years, but we still compare favourably with our international competitors. However, more can be done, particularly given what has happened in recent years.
I am aware that many business people are wondering about possible changes to employment legislation. I offer them this reassurance: the coalition understands how tough it has been for them over the past two years, as companies of all sizes have had to fight their way from the deepest recession in 60 years. We will not do anything that makes that continuing task more difficult. We are certainly not in the business of weighing companies down with more regulation and higher costs.
Achieving lasting economic growth is a core priority in the years ahead, and that can come only from the private sector, so we want to make this country one of the best places in the world to start and expand a business. That means dismantling the barriers to growth and improving the regulatory and legal frameworks for business, including employment law.
Good workplace relations improve productivity and help businesses run more efficiently, which enables them to stay competitive and boosts long-term resilience. I am sure that as the hon. Gentleman runs a small business, he is very much aware of that. In our review of employment law, we are trying to see how we can offer maximum flexibility for employers and employees in a competitive business environment. We want to ensure that we have the balance right, so that employment laws do not inhibit businesses from growing.
As part of that review, we are reflecting on what business groups have said to us about the cost and complexity of employment legislation, including on resolving workplace disputes and the employment tribunal system. Where we can make legislation easier to understand, improve efficiency and reduce unnecessary burdens, we will. I am very keen to meet some businesses from the hon. Gentleman’s constituency in due course. I have met a number of business representative organisations, which have given me an awful lot of ideas to mull over, and I assure him that we have been listening to them.
Getting people back into work and helping them stay there is at the heart of our plans for Britain’s economic renewal. That is why we are committed to creating a more flexible employment system that allows people to balance their work and family commitments. Millions of people have responsibilities outside work, whether raising a family, caring for an elderly or sick partner or serving their community. If we help people manage their lives and stay in employment, we can avoid losing the skills, talents and energy of millions of people from the UK economy. There is good evidence from companies already operating flexible working patterns that they deliver real benefits to the bottom line. Those benefits include increased productivity because staff are focused on the job; lower turnover because workers feel valued by their employers; and reduced absenteeism because people can reorganise their day when the unexpected happens.
The coalition agreement raises the possibility of extending to all employees the right to request flexible working. I have been talking about the coalition agreement to employers and their representative organisations. The hon. Gentleman asked why we had extended the practice to include parents with children up to the age of 18 before the wider review, on which we shall consult, and the wider implementation of the coalition policy. When we considered the matter, we found that the cost to business was nil. In fact, it made things simpler.
The way in which the previous Government introduced the right to request flexible working, with different rules for different employees, confused business. So, simplifying the system was just a small step. When we talked to businesses, they seemed to understand and appreciate that. Clearly, one reason why many business organisations are ready to engage in the debate about extending to all employees the right to request flexible working is that it would simplify the system. We want to do that in a way that responds to practical experience of that right to request.
During the recession, it was interesting to see—this also came out in some recent CBI evidence—that there was a greater acceptance of flexible working by employees. A number of firms found that their employees were more willing to take pay cuts and operate on reduced hours and so stay in work, thus keeping the business afloat. We saw a much better engagement at the work place. That is why a number of employers and their organisations are saying that flexible working is one of the better things that came out of the previous Government.
Mr Davey
I can confirm that I want a holiday next year, but although I have some sympathy for the hon. Gentleman’s suggestion of a holiday for employment law, it would be impossible. Under EU legal obligations, we must implement some employment law next year. For example, the agency workers regulations come into force in October 2011. We would contravene our obligations under EU law if we did not implement them. Of course, additional paternity leave also comes into effect.
Although we are committed to ensuring that we review employment laws and take businesses’ considerations into account, as the hon. Gentleman said in his speech, some items are legacies from the previous Government. We had to think carefully about them, but our judgment was that we could not not introduce them.
The hon. Gentleman mentioned the claim by the Institute of Directors that we are gold-plating the agency workers directive. I met representatives of the Institute of Directors and discussed the matter in detail. I asked for the reason why they thought that and for their legal advice. We fundamentally disagree with the organisation on the matter. I assure the hon. Gentleman that we have no intention of gold-plating the agency workers regulations. We inherited them. He knows that the directive finds its legal basis in the social partner agreement between the CBI and the TUC. He also knows that that agreement, to which the CBI signed up on behalf of British business, introduced a 12-week exemption. When I discussed with businesses how we could look at implementing the agency workers regulations, I asked whether, if the social partners did not like what we were doing, they would be prepared to risk losing the 12-week exemption. Businesses made it absolutely clear that the 12-week exemption was critical to them above anything else. We therefore decided that, to ensure that we did not lose the exemption that the CBI had won, we had to proceed to implement the agency workers regulations.
I had hoped, in discussions with the CBI and the TUC, that we could reach an agreement on ameliorating some of those regulations in a way that would benefit workers and employees as well as employers. I tried very hard to achieve that, but I was unfortunately unable to do so. However, I can reassure my hon. Friend that we worked very hard. If he reads my ministerial statement on the issue carefully, he will get the flavour of the frustration that I felt in being unable to go further, but as he said, we inherited that measure. We tried our best to ensure that it is not as damaging as it could otherwise be. We will now engage with employers and trade unions on the guidance for the implementation of the regulations, which is an important step.
Gavin Williamson
In a former life as a potter, I remember talking to my German colleagues who were porcelain manufacturers. They said that their Government, who were very enthusiastic to introduce regulations, would always sit down with them and talk about how they would minimise the effect of European regulations.
I should like to point out what a disgrace it is that Opposition Members care so little about creating jobs. We are dealing with their legacies. I urge the Minister to do all he can to resist the urge of the European Union to stifle our creativity in business.
Mr Davey
My hon. Friend is very prescient, because I was about to talk about the European dimension of employment law. As hon. Members know, that is the genesis of a lot of employment law in Britain. In particular, I wanted to focus on a short-term issue with which I am dealing. The hon. Member for Skipton and Ripon did not mention it, but it speaks very much to the thrust of his remarks.
What problems would British business and Britain face if the amendments to the pregnant workers directive passed in the European Parliament on 20 October were implemented? British MEPs from all parties voted against the amendments, but unfortunately and slightly unexpectedly, there was a small majority in favour of them. The amendments would impose considerable additional costs on many member states when their economies can least afford them. For the UK, the bill would be at least £2.4 billion a year, doubling current spending in that area. That is simply unacceptable. The European requirement for full pay during maternity leave that results from the European Parliament amendment is a red line for the Government. We will now work hard in the Council and with member states that share our views to oppose the Parliament’s proposal. That may not give the hon. Gentleman the holiday he wants, but it will hopefully give him some reassurance that we will work hard to stop the system getting worse.
I should stress that the Government are committed to playing a strong and positive role with our European partners, so that we are equipped to deal with the challenges and opportunities thrown up by an increasingly open and competitive global economy, but the EU must adapt to those challenges and opportunities. The priority needs to be growth and global competitiveness, not introducing more employment regulation. In future, UK Ministers will get involved earlier and more strategically in EU policy development, and we will push to embed smart regulation within the policies of the European Commission, Parliament and Council.
By that, I mean that we want to ensure that proper impact assessments are made of new proposals for regulations by the Council, the Commission and the Parliament. No such assessments are made by the Council at the moment, despite an inter-institutional agreement in 2004; the Parliament’s impact assessment are poor, to say the least; and the Commission’s are only just improving. I am determined that we push hard on that, because the decision to try to stop over-burdensome regulation has already been taken by the EU but not implemented.
We will make it a priority to challenge restrictive practices and strive to ensure that the employment law framework is flexible, proportionate and based on the principle of subsidiarity. As I said, the framework needs to take into account the whole labour market—not only those who already have jobs, but people who are trying to get back into work. To do that effectively, it is important that we move beyond stale debates on issues such as the working time directive and the opt-out, and instead recognise, and respond to, the changing nature of work and the structural economic problems that exist across Europe. The Government will defend our opt-out, because we believe that it is an essential protection for many employers and employees throughout the country. However, the agenda of the working time directive is an agenda from the past, and we need to get real about the challenges facing Europe’s economy. Against the backdrop of the problems facing Europe’s economy, it is neither fair nor sensible to force people to work less than they would choose if the decision were left up to them. It is time that we all recognised that fact across Europe.
The EU has talked the language of better regulation for a few years now, but it has not been translated into action. We have to ensure that EU institutions put this into practice, take impact assessments more seriously and consider other smart regulatory options, including effective screening of proposals for their impact on businesses to ensure that their growth is not stunted. Our job is to help companies start up and grow, by working with our partners in Europe and creating the right business conditions here at home.
On the issue of the default retirement age, which the hon. Gentleman raised—and which was raised with him in an intervention—it was a coalition agreement, entered into willingly and enthusiastically by both sides. We are now consulting on it and I urge him and businesses that are concerned about the abolition of the default retirement age, to respond to that consultation. We will listen, but when the Chancellor made his Budget statement earlier this year he said that we would go ahead with abolition. When we implement that, we want to ensure that we do so in a way that businesses find easy to manage, given the need to performance-manage employees. I sometimes get a little frustrated when businesses say that they use the default retirement age to get rid of people who, in their opinion, are not very good. That is not good management of staff and they should performance-manage more effectively. Many employers have campaigned for the abolition of the default retirement age, and no longer have one in their policy, because they believe in better performance-management of their staff. That is better for their businesses, because staff are more productive as a result. I will probably have to disagree with the hon. Gentleman on the default retirement age and pray in aid the Chancellor in support of my case.
A carefully calibrated framework of employment law, which balances the needs of employers with the rights of individuals, is an important part of the picture. As we work on the detail of our proposals in the months ahead, we will come up with a blueprint that gets that balance right. We are not about to make life more difficult for companies, especially small firms, still feeling the aftershocks of the worst recession in 60 years, so we will not tie them up in red tape or weigh them down with new regulations.
I recognise that we still have a way to go before we achieve our ambition of making Britain one of the best places in the world to start and grow a business, but we will get there, and we will do it by working in partnership with employers—getting our economy growing again to create jobs and secure prosperity in the years ahead.
Question put and agreed to.