Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ed Davey and Paul Flynn

Thursday 19th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

17. What support his Department plans to provide to the development of the proposed tidal lagoon project near Newport.

[The Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change (Mr Edward Davey)]

I can confirm that the Government have announced that we are entering into a negotiation on a contract for difference for the Swansea bay lagoon to decide whether the project is affordable and represents value for money. I am strongly in favour of a tidal programme across the UK, subject to the usual planning permissions and to the lessons from the first project or projects being learned. Given that planning permissions are site-specific, the hon. Gentleman will understand that I cannot give a view on the Newport project.

[Paul Flynn]

The belated recognition by the Government of the enormous advantages of tidal power is very welcome. They should examine what has been taking place for the past 50 years at La Rance in Brittany, where the cheapest electricity in the world is being generated. Will the Secretary of State look at the other schemes? The schemes at Newport are far better value than the Swansea scheme. However, we all give a warm welcome to the Government’s recognition that tidal power is a British, eternal, clean, non-carbon and entirely predictable energy source.

[Mr Davey]

I think this is the first time that the hon. Gentleman and I have been in agreement on energy policy, so I would like to mark the occasion. He is right that tidal lagoon power presents a huge opportunity for this country. The Department is looking at it in detail. I hope that it will produce not only the clean energy that we need, but the green jobs that are so important in many parts of the country.

Nuclear Management Partners (Sellafield)

Debate between Ed Davey and Paul Flynn

Tuesday 13th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davey]

I can confirm that.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

In 2008, I had an Adjournment debate to point out that the huge costs and risk of the operation would be borne by the taxpayer and not by the private company. It was a mistake to start the operation and a mistake to renew it, but it is also a mistake not to learn the lesson. Have not the Government just risked another £10 billion as a gift to a foreign company at Hinkley Point and agreed a price for electricity that will continue, guaranteed, for 35 years? Again, the public bear the risk and the cost, and private people from abroad—from China and France—will take the profit.

[Mr Davey]

Let me try to agree with something the hon. Gentleman said. The costs of decommissioning are huge. Two thirds of my Department’s budget goes towards decommissioning nuclear power stations from the past and dealing with that legacy, so we need to think about value for money as we do that vital work safely. That is one of the reasons that, with the new nuclear programme, it is vital that the contracts and prices we agree include the costs of decommissioning and waste management, and they do.

Energy Prices

Debate between Ed Davey and Paul Flynn

Wednesday 18th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davey]

I am about to do so. I said that our reforms are beginning to work. It is true—that is what I said. I admit that energy prices have gone up in this Parliament, but they have gone up slower than they did in the last Parliament, when energy bills went up faster on average every year than they have in this Parliament. Indeed, fuel poverty went up under Labour, whereas the latest statistics show it falling. The hon. Gentleman should look at the facts.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Davey]

No, I will not; I am going to make some progress.

Pursuing the Opposition’s policies would be nothing short of a disaster, not just for consumers but for investment, for decarbonisation and for energy security. If any Government were so misguided as to intervene with the two prices regulations proposed by the right hon. Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint) it would lead to chaos in our energy system.

Today’s latest debate on energy prices does have something new—well, sort of new. The right hon. Lady—quite rightly, in my view—wants us to focus on the fact that while wholesale prices for gas and electricity have by and large fallen in recent months, most energy companies have yet to cut their retail prices. Many people, over many years, have looked at this phenomenon—at the way in which wholesale and retail energy prices relate to each other and at how there always seems to be a time lag between changes in wholesale prices and in retail prices, especially when wholesale prices are falling. The explanation that energy firms give for this time lag is the way in which they buy their wholesale energy: to spread their risks and hedge, to smooth out the prices they charge customers, they buy much of their gas and electricity six months, 12 months, 18 months or even further ahead on the futures markets. Therefore, energy firms claim, they cannot immediately pass on today’s wholesale price falls, because the gas or electricity they are supplying was bought at the higher prices of months past. The right hon. Lady spoke a lot about that. Like many people before her, she is worried about the so-called rocket and feather problem: the energy companies appear all too ready to allow their retail prices to go up like a rocket when wholesale prices rise, but when wholesale prices fall their retail prices are no longer rockets but feathers, gently falling ever so slowly so that the energy firms can profit.

That argument leads to two questions: first, is it true? Do energy prices follow this rocket and feather model? Secondly, if it is true, what should we do about it? My answers to these questions are clear. It may well be true—there seems to be evidence that it happens. It was one of the reasons I asked the competition authorities last year to undertake the first-ever annual competition assessment of the energy markets. Interestingly, the independent competition authorities stated:

“We have found that suppliers do not adjust their prices as quickly when costs fall compared to when wholesale costs rise.”

In fact, it was one of a number of reasons and findings that led Ofgem to propose a market investigation reference. That is exactly what I think we should support when faced with such a worrying finding for consumers. There should be a no-holds barred inquiry by independent experts, whom we have given real teeth to act for consumers. That is the action that the right hon. Lady should be proposing and that I am backing as Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change.

[Paul Flynn]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Davey]

No.

I am not the first Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change to be confronted with the problem of wholesale and retail energy prices—the possibility of a rocket and feather consumer energy price rip-off. As Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, the right hon. Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband), the Leader of the Opposition, presided over a period in which wholesale prices crashed and retail prices did not. When he did my job, between September 2008 and January 2010, wholesale prices actually fell faster than the figures set out in the Opposition’s motion. Wholesale electricity prices on the day-ahead market fell not by the 23% mentioned in the motion but by 62.5%. Under the Leader of the Opposition, wholesale gas prices to businesses fell not by 38% but by 43%. A big driver of those falls was, of course, the massive recession, and they went on so long that, eventually, retail prices for consumers fell—but only by a bit: electricity by 7.5%, not the 62.5% fall in wholesale prices enjoyed by the energy firms, and gas by 5.6%, not the wholesale fall of 43%.

The energy prices rocket and feather phenomenon is, therefore, not new. I thought it would be worth finding out what lessons we have to learn from my predecessor, the leader of the Labour party. What did he do when he had the power? He called a summit—a summit. He reported back to this House on what action he had taken:

“I impressed upon the companies the need for retail energy prices to reflect changes in wholesale prices as soon as possible.”

He “impressed upon” them that retail prices should reflect wholesale prices “as soon as possible”. It just never happened. But, to be fair, he went further, in standing up to the energy companies. He told the House that

“The Government and the industry are agreed on the need to bring down retail gas and electricity prices.”—[Official Report, 18 November 2008; Vol. 483, c. 14WS.]

It was “agreed”; it just never happened—it never reflected wholesale prices. Perhaps that was because, a month later, the Labour leader backed down. He said—fiercely, no doubt, and the right hon. Lady should listen to this—

“We have recently seen big falls in wholesale gas and electricity prices, but I understand that because energy companies tend to buy in advance they won't be passed on immediately.”

It sounds as though he was more impressed upon than impressive.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Davey]

I have spoken to Ofgem’s chief executive, Dermot Nolan. He is worried because the Labour party wants to get rid of Ofgem, even though it is doing this fine job and talking to energy companies. Ofgem is worried that Labour wants to undermine the regulatory system. Interestingly, who set up Ofgem? The Labour party. Who reformed Ofgem just a few years ago to make it more effective? The Leader of the Opposition. There is no consistency or coherence about anything on energy policy from Labour.

Let us consider some more basic questions—Labour Members will have to answer them at some stage if they are to be vaguely credible. If the regulation forces energy bills to drop immediately when day-ahead wholesale prices drop, what will that mean when wholesale prices rise? Will the regulation be exactly same both ways? If regulation forces retail prices to track wholesale prices, how often will a consumer’s energy bill have to be recalculated and what will be the cost of that? Who will be the genius who second-guesses companies’ forward buying strategies, and decides whether they are good or bad? Will all suppliers have to purchase at the same time for the same contract period in Labour’s brave new world?

The logic of the massive state price control that Labour is proposing is clear: Labour wants to destroy the forward energy markets. It wants to end competition between companies, which is based on who has the brightest and best purchasing strategy to deal with things such as events in the UK or in Iraq, and manage those sorts of problems. If we end that competition, who will lose when the risks are greater? It will be consumers who pay in higher prices.

[Paul Flynn]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Mr Davey]

Forward markets help reduce risk and therefore help reduce prices for consumers. They help competition and smooth prices for consumers that make fixed-price deals.

[Paul Flynn]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I came to the Chamber expecting a debate about energy prices. Nowhere on the Order Paper does it say that we would be treated to a drivelling, ad hominem attack on the Leader of the Opposition.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

That is not a point of order. You have made your point, Mr Flynn, but it is up to the Secretary of State whether he wishes to give way. He is giving way now and again. It is not as though he could not hear you, so I suspect he is not giving way by choice.

Energy Price Freeze

Debate between Ed Davey and Paul Flynn

Wednesday 2nd April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davey]

My hon. Friend is quite right. SSE’s press release made it clear that its price freeze had come about because of this Government’s actions.

When the energy companies next consider price rises, they will do so in the face of an imminent report by the Competition and Markets Authority, to be published in 2015. We shall then be able to consider, on the basis of proper evidence and tough action and advice from the independent competition experts, how best to reform our energy markets further to help customers. Of course, if there were a huge shift in wholesale prices or network costs between now and that point, we would expect the energy companies to respond, so let us think about what would happen in that circumstance under the Opposition’s plans put forward today. For the sake of debate, let us do a thought experiment.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

rose—

[Mr Davey]

If the hon. Gentleman wants to come in with a thought experiment, that will be very welcome.

[Paul Flynn]

The right hon. Gentleman talked about shifts in the wholesale price. What effect does he think imported and home-produced shale gas will have on prices in the United Kingdom in the next five and 10 years?

[Mr Davey]

I think it will have hardly any effect, if any effect at all. The case for shale gas is to do with energy security, as I have made clear many times.

Returning to my thought experiment, let us imagine what would happen if there were a legally imposed price freeze—prices frozen by the state, not by individual firms. What would happen if wholesale prices shot up? Let us say Russia invades Ukraine and gas prices in Europe shoot up. Would a Labour Government keep prices frozen then? I do not know if they are sure themselves. The right hon. Member for Don Valley might want to confirm whether they would keep prices frozen then. Their price freeze is not really a price freeze; it is a con. Let us assume, however, that whatever happened to wholesale gas markets and prices, they would freeze prices. The truth is that would hit the small players and play into the hands of the big six. As Ian McCaig, chief executive of First Utility, the largest of the new independents, said:

“Bluntly, it could put me under… How am I going to absorb those costs? I only retail, I don’t generate. The answer is, I can’t.”

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ed Davey and Paul Flynn

Thursday 16th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davey]

I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s question. There are one or two anomalies with the way in which the warm home discount works. We are looking at how we can tackle that, not least in our approach to the fuel poverty strategy, which will be published later this spring.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

T8. As Électricité de France has just agreed a strike price for nuclear-generated electricity in France of £38 per MWh, why have the Government agreed to pay nearly three times that price—£92 per MWh—to Électricité de France and guaranteed to index link that price for the next 35 years?

[Mr Davey]

I think the hon. Gentleman is referring to the statement by the chairman of INEOS, who claims he has made this particular arrangement. Clearly, we do not know the details of the contract, but I would be very interested to know them. I challenge INEOS: if it wants to sell cheap electricity to the UK, we would be very happy for it to come on to our markets. However, I do not think that this is a case of comparing apples with apples, as I am sure the hon. Gentleman is well aware.

Energy Bills

Debate between Ed Davey and Paul Flynn

Monday 2nd December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davey]

We are not trying to water down the target. We have had a two and a half year analysis and consultation, as I would have thought the hon. Lady would know. My predecessor commissioned Professor John Hills to do a detailed and independent study on fuel poverty, which was not done under the previous Government. If she looks at the proposals that we have come up with, having consulted widely, she will see that they have been welcomed by fuel poverty groups. Why? They have been welcomed because the proposals will ensure that our resources are much better targeted on people in real fuel poverty—in what I call deep fuel poverty. Again, I would have thought that the Labour party would welcome that; it is a shame that it is not doing so.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

Are not future rip-offs very likely, given the extraordinary deal on Hinkley Point nuclear power station which guarantees compensation to a French Government-owned company if British Government energy policy changes at any time over the next 35 years? Will the Secretary of State give us a promise of full transparency on the conditions of that extraordinary deal, so that we can know who is deciding it? Will it be decided by Parliament or by the Government in a private deal, in secret, with a nationalised company?

[Mr Davey]

I disagree with the hon. Gentleman’s analysis of the impact of the nuclear deal, and actually he is disagreeing with his own Front-Bench team, who welcomed the deal. We have said in the Energy Bill and I have said at the Dispatch Box that we will be transparent. When the final investment contract is signed, which we expect to happen halfway through next year, it will be published, making it the most open and transparent nuclear deal done by any Government in history, not just in this country but across the world. He ought to welcome that.

UK Nuclear Energy Programme

Debate between Ed Davey and Paul Flynn

Monday 21st October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davey]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. The cost of decommissioning is one reason I was concerned about nuclear power in the past. As I have told the House, two thirds of my Department’s budget is spent on decommissioning past nuclear power stations. It was a scandal that we had to clean up the mess of previous Governments who failed to tackle decommissioning costs. That is why this deal is so different from what has gone before. The decommissioning costs are included in the strike price we announced. EDF and its partners must provide, from day one of generation, for a funded decommissioning plan, which will be independently overseen. I can therefore tell my hon. Friend that we have made a big step forward in dealing with decommissioning.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

Without the deal, EDF faces bankruptcy, with £38 billion of debt and only two contracts: the first, at Flamanville, is three years late and more than three times over budget, rising from £3 billion to £8 billion; and the other, in Finland, is twice over budget and seven years late. How does the Secretary of State expect EDF to do at Hinkley what it has never done before, namely deliver on price and on budget?

[Mr Davey]

The hon. Gentleman is not as well informed as he might be on EDF contracts. For example, it has a contract in China, where, with the Chinese, it is building a nuclear power plant at Taishan. That is on budget and on time. I tell him gently that EDF has a huge amount of experience and is a good partner for the UK. Unlike the deals he mentions, we have ensured that the consumer is protected from construction cost overruns. He ought to welcome that.

Petrol Prices

Debate between Ed Davey and Paul Flynn

Wednesday 15th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davey]

I believe that the law does not currently allow fines levied by the European Commission to be passed on directly to consumers, but consumers will benefit from any lower prices that result from freer and fairer markets, which Government Members are determined to see.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

What is the Secretary of State doing to prevent another rip-off by Électricité de France, which has an atrocious record in cost overruns and delays, and which demands a 40-year guarantee of twice the current price for building Hinkley Point, at a time when abundant sources of energy are being discovered throughout the world? Will he guarantee that the House debates that before a deal is done with EDF?

[Mr Davey]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on getting the subject of nuclear power into this statement. Some of the tests in our negotiations with EDF on a contract for difference in relation to the proposed nuclear reactor at Hinkley Point C are to ensure that we get value for money and that the proposal is affordable.

Hinkley Point

Debate between Ed Davey and Paul Flynn

Tuesday 19th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davey]

I have already paid tribute to my hon. Friend, and what he has just said shows why that tribute was appropriate. Much of his work and that of local councils, my Department and others has been aimed at maximising the economic benefit for the area, and indeed the whole country. He will be aware of the nuclear skills academy, which is based at Bridgwater college, and that Sedgemoor and other councils have attracted new investment to the area for additional construction, as well as support for schools in the area. He will also know that even before we unveil the community benefits project, the decision provides significant benefits to the local area.

My hon. Friend is right in saying that there will be some pain for some local people in the local community during the long construction phase, but I hope that they and he believe that the panel’s recommendations and my decisions will mitigate that as much as possible.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree with himself, as the Lib Dem spokesman, that nuclear power is possible only with a vast—that was his word—taxpayers’ subsidy or a rigged market? Does he also agree with himself, as a supporter of the coalition agreement, which said that there would be no subsidy for nuclear power? Can he now deny the claims that the strike price, which was originally £50 per megawatt-hour, is being negotiated at £97, and that we will be giving to a near-bankrupt French company a short-term subsidy of £30 billion that could turn out to be £150 billion in 35 years?

[Mr Davey]

The hon. Gentleman is right to say that my concerns on nuclear power for some time have related to the price, because the history of nuclear power in this country and elsewhere is that it has turned out to be expensive. That is why this coalition Government —and, indeed, the previous Labour Government—have gone about the third generation of nuclear power stations very differently from how Government’s went about things in the past to ensure that the consumer, business and the taxpayer are protected. That is why the coalition agreement says that there will be no public subsidy. I have to say to him that I simply do not recognise the figures he quoted.

New Nuclear Power

Debate between Ed Davey and Paul Flynn

Thursday 7th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davey]

The hon. Gentleman is right to say that past Governments failed to tackle this legacy. The previous Government put in place a framework, which we are continuing, and it is right that we now grasp this legacy, because it shamelessly has not been grasped in the past.

[Paul Flynn]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Mr Davey]

No, I want to make some progress.

On new build, is it is for energy companies themselves to construct, operate and decommission power stations. Industry has set out plans to develop about 16 GW of new nuclear capacity in the UK. This level of new build equates to some £60 billion of new investment, with up to 19,000 jobs created at peak construction, benefiting the communities directly concerned and driving growth right through the supply chain. We want to make the UK a leading destination for investment in new nuclear, which will play a key role in our future energy mix.

We welcome EDF Energy’s continued commitment and determination to take forward the Hinkley Point C project. Centrica’s decision to withdraw from the consortium reflects that company’s investment priorities and is not a reflection on UK Government policy. Indeed, the recent purchase of Horizon Nuclear Power by Hitachi is clear evidence of the attractiveness of the new nuclear market in the UK.

On subsidy, there has been understandable concern about how the programme for new nuclear power will be paid for. After all, expensive mistakes have been made in the past. I welcome this opportunity to explain the no-subsidy policy in the context of electricity market reform.

This far-reaching reform of the UK electricity market will encourage investment in low-carbon electricity generation, which is critical to tackling climate change and meeting our legally binding carbon targets. Electricity market reform is the most transparent and most market-based means of bringing forward the transition to a low-carbon economy. Under EMR, as set out to Parliament in October 2010, new nuclear will receive no levy, direct payment or market support for electricity supplied or capacity provided, unless similar support is also made available more widely to other types of generation.

By similar, we do not mean the same. Whether similar support is being provided must take account of the material circumstances. It is not a mechanical exercise; it is a matter of sensible judgment. It is obvious that the characteristics of a small onshore wind farm are very different from those of a large offshore wind farm and, indeed, those of a nuclear plant. The obvious example is that an offshore wind turbine is expected to last for about 25 years, while a new nuclear power station could potentially generate electricity for more than 60 years. Nuclear energy would provide base-load generation, whereas other forms of low-carbon electricity would be intermittent. These different characteristics are likely to require differences in the support provided under our electricity market reform.

A key element of EMR is contracts for difference, as my hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) rightly pointed out in his speech. Contracts for difference have been designed to stimulate investment in all forms of low-carbon generation, including renewables, nuclear and carbon capture and storage. They provide a stable price for operators to encourage investment, making it easier and cheaper to secure finance for low carbon.

The key point is that we recognise that CFDs significantly reduce risks to developers and incentivises investment in low carbon. It is right that new nuclear power will be entitled to benefit from Energy Bill measures such as contracts for difference and investment contracts.

[Paul Flynn]

In secret, without the House knowing.

[Mr Davey]

I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, who is heckling from a sedentary position, because he is very informed on this subject, even though I disagree with him.

[Paul Flynn]

I have a simple question. Is the Secretary of State able to provide an assurance that there will be no subsidies to nuclear power without the full knowledge and consent of this House?

[Mr Davey]

I am trying to explain our policy on no subsidy, but the hon. Gentleman interrupted me. If he will listen, the position is being put on the record in a way that I have never had a chance to do before.

Our aim is for a broadly standardised approach to contracts for difference that will allow for comparability between technologies and the introduction of competition for CFDs. I do not think that what is needed is a line-by-line comparison of the terms of each contract. That is not what our policy says or requires. In fact, there are likely to be variations in CFD designs between one technology and another, and perhaps also between different projects within the same technology. What is important is that the terms agreed deliver a similar result across technologies and projects, and that they result in a proper allocation of risk. In addition, each contract will need to deliver value for money for the consumer and be compatible with state-aid rules. A contract with a nuclear developer that does those things would be compatible with our no-subsidy policy.

Let me be clear—this is not about getting a deal at any price. We have put in place rigorous processes to ensure that any contract for Hinkley Point C, the most advanced nuclear project, represents the best possible deal for consumers. We are also committed to transparency with regard to any contracts for new nuclear—more transparency on nuclear than this House has ever seen. Under the Energy Bill, all investment contracts must be published and laid before Parliament. We have commissioned expert technical and financial advisers to conduct open-book scrutiny on the developer’s project plans and costs, and we will also publish a summary of the reports from our external advisers and our value-for-money appraisal for Hinkley Point C. Hon. and right hon. Members will be able to see the evidence and judge for themselves.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ed Davey and Paul Flynn

Thursday 31st January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davey]

First, let us be clear. Although, as the Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change, my right hon. Friend the Member for Bexhill and Battle (Gregory Barker) said earlier, taxpayers are often consumers, the subsidies are paid for by consumers when and only when a wind farm produces electricity. There is good value for money for consumers, so I think onshore wind and offshore wind play a really important part in our energy mix. As the hon. Lady knows and as I said in my initial answer, we have reviewed the subsidies going to onshore wind and to all other renewables. In addition, because concerns were expressed around the House, we issued a call for evidence to check that the figures we used in our most recent analysis are up to date, particularly with respect to onshore wind. We will report back to the House on that call for evidence to see whether there have been changes to the cost structure that we did not find in our previous analysis.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

14. What recent assessment he has made of the potential construction of new nuclear power stations.

--- Later in debate ---

[Paul Flynn]

I will pull those words and refer instead to this Minister who has failed to answer any question today and has demonstrated his incompetence.

[Mr Davey]

I am extremely disappointed in the approach that the hon. Gentleman has taken. My hon. Friend the Minister of State and I work very closely on this issue and many other matters and he has made an important contribution to the debate. The hon. Gentleman clearly has not read the written ministerial statement issued before oral questions, which makes it very clear that our policy continues and has not changed. As his hon. Friend the Member for Copeland (Mr Reed) said earlier, it is worth noting that Copeland borough council and Allerdale borough council voted with substantial majorities to say yes to a nuclear waste facility in their area.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ed Davey and Paul Flynn

Thursday 8th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davey]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his question, because I have today announced £3.5 million to train green deal assessors, delivering on the Deputy Prime Minister’s announcement last March of the creation of 1,000 green deal apprenticeships. That money will help hundreds of people gear up for the green deal and ensure that the scheme is a real success on the ground. I have also announced today £10 million of innovation funding to improve the energy efficiency of non-domestic buildings.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

T2. Will the Minister congratulate the firm of Mabey Bridge in Chepstow, which was started last year? It has just doubled its work force to 200 and has a full order book for 35 wind power towers. Will he take this opportunity to denounce the doubters on his Back Benches and give a clarion call of support for wind as a job-rich form of energy that is British, eternal and clean?

Special Representative for International Trade and Investment

Debate between Ed Davey and Paul Flynn

Wednesday 4th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Mr Edward Davey)]

The hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn) has made a number of points that I do not think I can answer tonight, because they are not the responsibility of my Department. I consider that the question of whether he is gagged by the orders of the House is a matter for other House authorities, and I am sure that it will be dealt with in the usual way. I assume that he does not expect me to deal with those points. However, he managed to raise other important issues about the role of the special representative for international trade and investment, although I should say at the outset that I could not disagree more with his conclusions about that job.

The hon. Gentleman talked a great deal about what he considered to be the problem of a lack of competition in the job, as if membership of the Royal Family were open to competition. I think most people will find that a rather odd position for him to take. However, I am pleased to note that he is now in favour of competition, as he does not often take that line.

I, for one, believe that the Duke of York does an excellent job as the UK’s special representative for international trade and investment. He promotes UK business interests around the world, and helps to attract inward investment. He has been the UK’s special representative since 1 October 2001, and it is interesting that there has been no debate of this kind during the period of nearly 10 years since his appointment. During that time he has been a long-standing success in the role, representing a continued interest on the part of the Royal Family in supporting British business and international trade and investment.

Since taking on his role, the Duke of York has built a substantial network of contacts at high level in both Government and business overseas. Those links help the duke to make a major impact in a range of markets around the world. He has made a valuable contribution in developing significant opportunities for British business through the role, and continues to do so.

The hon. Gentleman could have talked about how he would assess that, and what evidence we could provide. Of course, it is often difficult to prove that a particular intervention by a particular person at a particular time results in a particular success. However, if we listen to the voice of British business, it is absolutely clear that it endorses the role of the Duke of York. Many who have worked with the duke have found that he is a real asset for our country in supporting UK business. A letter from a group of prominent business people published recently by The Sunday Times underlines the duke’s commitment to helping the country to respond to the current very difficult period for our economy through the work that he does in support of a trade-led recovery.

[Paul Flynn]

Does the Minister realise that that list, which was published a very short time ago, was four years old, and that many firms on it declined to refresh their support for the expression of sentiments of support for the envoy?

[Mr Davey]

I am surprised that the hon. Gentleman makes that point because, as I shall go on to set out, a lot of people have contemporaneously spoken out in favour of the Duke of York’s work. That letter did say that

“the efforts made by him need to be encouraged—for he does it well.”

I am surprised that the hon. Gentleman did not mention that, and I am sure that the vast majority of those who have seen the duke’s work at first hand would echo that sentiment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Davey]

The duke is not paid for the work that he does in this role. UK Trade & Investment pays for the costs of UK-based and overseas visits undertaken by the duke and his supporting staff, and these visits are undertaken in agreement with UKTI and are in support of UKTI objectives. Let me give an indication of the cost of these visits. In 2008-09, the costs amounted to just over £149,000 and just over £154,000 in 2009-10, and the flights are paid for by the royal travel budget. I believe that these activities represent excellent value for money.

[Paul Flynn]

Does the Minister, a fair-minded person, recognise that what he is saying illustrates how out of balance our debating system is? He is free to praise the envoy, but I am not free to say anything derogatory about the envoy and so our debate is completely out of balance. Is the Minister not illustrating the need for our Standing Orders to be changed?

[Mr Davey]

As I recall it, the hon. Gentleman said that he was objecting to the cost of this post, so I am rebutting his argument, which he was free to make within our Standing Orders, by arguing that the duke’s work provides value for money. I am rebutting that point of substance.

Let me now deal with the duke’s appointment to this position. We are sometimes asked: what are the terms of the duke’s employment as special representative for international trade and investment? Does he have a contract? The hon. Gentleman wanted to have a job description and competition for the role. We are also asked who invited the duke to take on this job. In response, I wish to make a number of key points. First, the role is not an appointment within the remit of the civil service commissioners or the Commissioner for Public Appointments. It is a special role and it represents a continued interest by the royal family in supporting British business and international trade. Prior to the Duke of York’s appointment, the Duke of Kent was vice-chair of the British Overseas Trade Board from 1976 and latterly vice-chair of British Trade International until April 2001—the Duke of York was appointed in October 2001. So the royal family, in different roles and in different personages, have been fulfilling this type of role for many years. This is not a new thing and successive Governments of different persuasions have found this work to be valuable. Diplomats and business people in our country have valued the contribution made by the royal family in this regard.

[Mr Davey]

My hon. and learned Friend is absolutely right and I can certainly agree with that. It is also worth pointing out that the Duke of York not only helps UKTI and its related activities but assists in the objectives of other Departments, such as the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the Department of Energy and Climate Change, when he is asked to do so.

The duke’s programme of visits is agreed by the Royal Visits Committee. A great deal of discussion and planning go into deciding where His Royal Highness should visit and UKTI works with the duke’s private office to develop a programme of visits that complement the work and support the objectives of UKTI and make best use of the duke’s time to support the strategic aims and goals of Her Majesty’s Government. It is not a question of the special representative freelancing: he plans his programmes to operate within a strict framework. The programme is reviewed regularly and is confirmed alongside other overseas visits undertaken by other members of the royal family and by senior politicians such as the Prime Minister, Foreign Secretary and Business Secretary.

The duke’s visits focus primarily on those priority markets for the UK where the duke is well placed to make a positive impact. His visit programmes generally include visits to priority markets in the middle east, south-east Asia, China, India, Russia, central Asia and South America, as well as to the US and other developed markets. The visits relate to sectors that are or will be key to the UK’s future export growth. They include financial services, energy, advanced engineering, information and communication technology, life sciences and creative industries.

The duke has been visiting many of those priority global markets since 2001 and has developed strong relationships with key opinion formers and decision makers. For example, in 2008-09, His Royal Highness undertook nine overseas visits, visiting 16 countries. These involved 117 business engagements and openings, 27 political engagements and 28 with Heads of State. In 2009-10, His Royal Highness undertook 12 overseas visits, visiting 18 countries. This involved 163 business engagements and openings, 39 of which were political and 18 with Heads of State. This is a record of engagement that this House should recognise.

[Paul Flynn]

I hesitate to interrupt the Minister reading from the websites of the person and the Department involved, but he has made no attempt to answer my questions or to respond either to the serious criticism by the human rights organisations I cited or to what the former ambassador said about there being a far better way of doing the job, which is to allow ambassadors to do the job for which they are paid and skilled. Is that not a fair criticism?

[Mr Davey]

I disagree. I have provided evidence rather than innuendo to show that the Duke of York is undertaking a very valuable role. Let us remember why the Duke of York does this role: because it is in Britain’s interests. It is in the interests of firms, their employees and our economy. The previous Government recognised that and so do we. We have inherited a sick economy where the prospects of growth funded by the public sector or by consumers are very limited, to say the least, after the poor management of the economy by Labour over 13 years. If we are to grow, there are only two sources of growth: trade and investment. Having someone with experience and clout as the UK’s special representative for international trade and investment is something that we throw away at our peril.

I do not know what has motivated the hon. Gentleman. His timing is particularly inappropriate, coming as it does four days after the royal wedding, when I believe the whole country showed the support that they give to the royal family and all its members. I am proud to be here to support the role of His Royal Highness.

Question put and agreed to.