ISIL in Syria

Gareth Johnson Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Johnny Mercer (Plymouth, Moor View) (Con)]

We have heard a lot about the complexities around this very difficult question, so I stand with humility not to add any particularly clever intellectual insight into the debate, but to lay out very briefly my view—and I hope, by extension, the views of most of those whom we ask to conduct these operations—of what this means for our country and the choice we face tonight.

I feel very strongly about national security. I have seen the threats that we face with my own eyes and I have felt them with my own hands. We have a privileged way of life in this country, with a free democracy, a free-speech society, and a healthy economy. We are privileged for reasons too numerous to enter into now, but chiefly blessed because throughout our generations we have had men and women who believe so much in this nation that they have taken difficult political decisions, and some have even taken up arms and sacrificed everything, to protect this way of life. I have become worried of late that we have lost some of that spirit—something that makes us recognise the dangerous threat to this precious way of life and resolve to deal with it appropriately. We must always remember how privileged we are in the sea of humanity of which we are a part. We earned this privilege through the years, from generation to generation. We protected this gift, and it is time to protect it again.

We are under threat from a group of individuals who seek to destroy our very way of life in this country. They hate everything about us and work night and day to disrupt and kill us whenever the opportunity presents itself. This is not the Iraq problem of 2003.

[Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that at the heart of this matter is that only last month one of our closest allies suffered the most horrific terrorist attack, that that same ally is asking us for military help, and that therefore quite the wrong message for us to send out would be simply to turn our back on one of our closest allies at this time?

[Johnny Mercer]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. I completely agree. This is a hugely complex issue and there are no easy answers, but I do think we are in danger of almost over-complicating what it is—a threat to our national security, the capability of individuals to project force into this country, and the duty we have to defend it. These individuals have demonstrated that they have strategic reach. They can reach into our homelands, into our communities and into our families, and destroy all that we hold dear.

I understand the avalanche of questions from colleagues, and I think that in the history of this House it would be impossible to find a Prime Minister who has done more to answer them. We will add to the mission in that part of the world militarily. We will operate in a way that will—not might, but will—accelerate—

Syria: Refugees and Counter-terrorism

Gareth Johnson Excerpts

Monday 7th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The first thing to do is to get on and deliver the 20,000.

[Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con)]

Does the Prime Minister agree that the downside of the Opposition’s suggestion of taking refugees from mainland Europe is that it gives a green light to people smugglers and encourages exploitation? We have a good record in this country, thanks to this Government, of tackling modern slavery and human trafficking, and it would be wrong at this stage to turn our back on the genuine progress that we have made.

G7

Gareth Johnson Excerpts

Wednesday 10th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

There was not a specific discussion of that, but the great thing about the G7 is that all its countries sign up to certain norms for human rights, freedom of expression, the rule of law and democracy, so we can have like-minded conversations in which we deal with issues very frankly. We have set out very clearly our views on what has happened in this case in Saudi Arabia, and we will continue to do so.

[Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con)]

The New York Times reported recently that Iran is increasing its nuclear stockpiles, notwithstanding the fact that the issue was due to be discussed at the G7 summit. Will the Prime Minister assure the House that there remains a determination among G7 countries to ensure that Iran is never able to obtain a nuclear weapon of its own?

[The Prime Minister]

I can certainly give my hon. Friend that assurance. There was a good conversation about Iran, when President Obama reported back on his view of the state of the negotiations that are taking place. The aim is very clear: to make sure Iran is a good distance away from ever obtaining a nuclear weapon. Crucially, the agreement has to include a lot of inspection and verification so that we know that to be true. On that basis, a deal is absolutely worth pursuing.

European Council

Gareth Johnson Excerpts

Monday 30th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

As I said earlier, the idea that somehow this all came about because the Conservative party no longer sits in the EPP is complete nonsense. The Liberals sit in the ALDE group—the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats in Europe—and the Labour party sits in the Socialist group. All the groups decided to adopt a leading candidate. Many of the Prime Ministers and Presidents subsequently rather regretted that the treadmill was taking them in a direction that they did not necessarily want to go in.

[Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con)]

Right across Europe we have seen an increase in the Eurosceptic vote and a demand for reform. Does the Prime Minister therefore agree with me that the European Union needs to respect that support for the nation state and ensure that whenever we select a President the viewpoint from across the European Union is taken into consideration?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The Dutch Prime Minister has a mantra, “Nation states where possible; Europe only where necessary.” That is the approach that we should take. There are some in Europe who think that whenever there is a problem of legitimacy, the answer is more Europe. My argument is that in many cases the answer should be less Europe, more for nation states, more for national Parliaments, more subsidiarity.

Oral Answers to Questions

Gareth Johnson Excerpts

Tuesday 15th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Attorney-General]

The payments in each case were those to which the individuals were contractually entitled. I am aware of the recent press coverage of two payments, but it relied on a series of assumptions that have been shown not to be accurate. Moreover, in the case of one of those two cases, the payments were in fact made in 2009 and were part of the redundancy payments approved by the previous Government, which we changed.

[Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con)]

6. On how many occasions during the last 12 months his Department has referred a criminal sentence to the Court of Appeal for review on the grounds that it was unduly lenient.

[The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)]

As my hon. Friend will be aware, the power to refer sentences is an exceptional remedy reserved for those cases in which the sentence is so far below the range of sentences it was reasonable to impose that public confidence in the criminal justice system risks being damaged. For 2012, the most recent period for which statistics on unduly lenient sentence cases have been published, we received 435 requests for sentences to be reviewed, of which 82 were referred as unduly lenient and heard by the Court of Appeal. For the period ending 30 September 2013, we have received 352 requests for sentences to be reviewed, of which 57 have been referred to the Court of Appeal and have been, or are due to be, heard by the Court.

[Gareth Johnson]

In that case, could the Attorney-General please assure the House that he will give due consideration to widening the scope to appeal against unduly lenient sentences? I am sure he will agree that weak sentences by our courts let down the victim, the judiciary and the whole of society.

[The Attorney-General]

My hon. Friend will be aware that the scheme is currently restricted to a list of serious offences. It is right to say that we have added to that list in recent years. In August 2012, the offence of trafficking people for exploitation was added, as were racially or religiously aggravated assaults in October 2003 and various offences under the Sexual Offences Act 2003 in 2006. It is always possible for cases to be added to the list, but it is important to bear in mind that references take up court time and there must be a limit to the number of cases that the Court of Appeal can hear. One must also bear in mind that there has to be a degree of finality and these things have to be balanced out. If my hon. Friend knows of any cases or types of offences that he thinks might be added, I am always happy to consider such matters. It is, obviously, ultimately a matter for my right hon. Friend the Lord Chancellor, but we discuss these matters and will act if we think it necessary.

Oral Answers to Questions

Gareth Johnson Excerpts

Wednesday 16th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to raise this issue, which is one of the biggest public health challenges that we face in our country, and to highlight the problem of excessive consumption of sugar. That is why we challenged business, through our responsibility deal, to try to reduce levels of sugar, and that has had some effect. We have in place a diabetes action plan, which is about how we improve early diagnosis, how we better integrate care and how we provide better support. But, frankly, this is one of those health challenges that is not just a challenge for the health service; it is a challenge for local authorities, for schools and for parents, too. As someone who is trying to bring up three children without excessive amounts of Coca-Cola, I know exactly how big this challenge is.

[Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con)]

Twenty years ago this week, Claire Tiltman, a 16-year-old pupil at Dartford grammar school for girls, was stabbed to death in my constituency. Nobody has ever been convicted of the crime. Both her parents subsequently died never knowing who had taken their only child from them. Will the Prime Minister assure the House that this Government will continue to provide full assistance to Kent police to help bring justice in the case of one of Britain’s most brutal unsolved murders?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right to raise this case, which is particularly tragic because, as he says, the girl’s parents have both died. Of course we will do everything we can, but above all it is for anyone who knows anything about this case to talk to Kent police, because in the end it is their responsibility to try to solve the case. As for taking action to deal with appalling knife crimes such as this, as my hon. Friend knows, the Government have taken a set of important actions.

Libya

Gareth Johnson Excerpts

Monday 5th September 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Obviously, the Government cannot stand behind every contract that every individual firm enters into anywhere in the world, but I completely understand why my hon. Friend feels strongly on behalf of his constituents, and that is why we have embassies around the world, and why we will now have a new ambassador in Tripoli, Dominic Asquith, and a new team around him that will be able to make progress on all such issues that hon. Members raise.

[Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con)]

I agree with the Prime Minister that we should not rush to judgment on some of these issues, but does he agree that it is at least questionable for the last Government to have sent UK police officers to Libya to train Gaddafi’s forces when those responsible for WPC Fletcher’s murder were still at large?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. Let me say again that I think it was right to re-form a relationship with Libya when it gave up weapons of mass destruction, but we had to do that in the right way, and I do not believe we made enough progress on issues such as the murder of Yvonne Fletcher, and I also do not think that the al-Megrahi case was handled in the right way.

Oral Answers to Questions

Gareth Johnson Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd March 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I do see Save the Children regularly. It is an excellent organisation in terms of the work that it does overseas and the pressure that it rightly brings to bear here in this country. What we have done in trying to help with child poverty is to make sure that we massively increase the child tax credit. That is what we have done in the Budget and in the spending round to make sure that while we are making difficult decisions, child poverty has not increased.

[Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con)]

Q11. The Prime Minister will know that for years the welfare state has been too easily abused. Can he therefore assure this House that in future the welfare state will act as a safety net for the unfortunate and not as a way of life for the workshy?

[The Prime Minister]

What this Government are doing—and it is a historic reform—is making sure that the welfare state always means that it is worth while someone being in work and worth while someone working more. That is what universal credit is all about, and it will make a huge difference to welfare in this country.

Prisoners (Voting Rights)

Gareth Johnson Excerpts

Tuesday 11th January 2011 Westminster Hall

[Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone) on securing this extremely important debate. I am pleased to have this opportunity to speak because I believe that it is fundamentally wrong for prisoners to be able to vote. If someone has decided to step outside the law to the point where they have to be incarcerated, they should have no say on how the law is made. Part of the deprivation of liberty that comes with imprisonment is a loss of entitlements, and that should include the right to vote.

My hon. Friend quoted the Prime Minister as saying that even contemplating giving the vote to those incarcerated as convicted prisoners makes him feel physically ill, and he said that in response to a question that I asked him. It is nauseating to think of some of the worst offenders having a say over how this place, or any town hall or parish council, is run. What aggravates us is that this issue was ignored by the previous Government and kicked into the long grass. It is yet another mess that we have inherited and have been left to deal with.

[Mr Stewart Jackson]

Mindful of the comments of the hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green), is it not hypocritical of the Labour party to take a similar view, given that in 13 years, it made very little impact on rehabilitation in the penal estate in terms of putting prisoners to work and improving literacy and numeracy? To now say that preventing prisoners from having the vote is somehow attacking their human and civil rights is hypocritical and gets the priorities completely wrong.

[Gareth Johnson]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. During the 13 years of the previous Government, I worked in the criminal justice system and I saw their lamentable record. We are still waiting to hear what the Opposition would do about the issue of prisoner votes. We have heard the hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston give her opinion, but we have yet to hear the official position of Her Majesty’s Opposition. We also want to know why nothing was implemented in the last four or five years since this particular judgment was passed by the European Court of Human Rights.

We all want to see prisoners obey the law. That is why they have been put into prison in the first place. We all have to obey the law. The United Kingdom is a member of the European Court of Human Rights and is, therefore, subject to its decisions. As members, we cannot pick and choose the decisions we want to comply with. We have two options: either we accept this judgment, hook, line and sinker, or we pull out of the European Court of Human Rights. Perhaps we need to review our membership, because it should be for Britain and not the European Court to decide whether or not British prisoners vote.

[Mr David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden) (Con)]

My hon. Friend was making a powerful argument, but he rather simplified the last point. It is not an issue of the ECHR versus Britain. A previous Home Secretary, now in opposition, said that he distinguished in his mind—I think he was right—between the ECHR overseeing the role of Governments and whether they properly obeyed the law, and the ECHR overruling the actions of Parliaments, which are not the same thing. One of the interesting points here is that what is being taken as a ruling to a Government is, in fact, a ruling to a Parliament, and we should challenge that point.

[Gareth Johnson]

My right hon. Friend makes a good point. I will come on to the issues relating to the judgment. I am concerned that it appears that through international law, which is always a bit of a hazy subject, we are being told that the United Kingdom has to comply with the direction given by that Court, or else we must pay compensation. My objection is that it should be wholeheartedly for the United Kingdom Government to make a decision on this issue, and there should be no kind of sanction against us if we say, “No, we feel that all convicted prisoners should lose the right to vote.” I accept that there are advantages and disadvantages in the United Kingdom’s membership of the ECHR, but this debate highlights one of the most significant disadvantages. It is therefore now up to us to weigh up whether we wish to continue being a member of that Court.

It is true that no criminal thinks that they will not commit a crime in case they lose their right to vote. I spent more than 20 years working in the criminal justice system, and I never met a defendant who took the attitude that they would not commit a particular crime because they were fearful of losing their right to vote. Nevertheless, I believe that giving back the right to vote on release can be part of a prisoner’s rehabilitation, and there is a distinction there.

For me, however, the issue here is not crime prevention but the principle that it is wrong for incarcerated criminals to help decide how government should operate. It is laughable to suggest that convicted prisoners should decide how the criminal justice system is operated or what priorities should be given, for example, in the policing budget.

The Government have responded to the case of Hirst, which we have heard mention of, in the ECHR; it is the reason we are having this debate today. The Government have said that votes will be allowed if prisoners are sentenced to less than four years’ imprisonment, and that that change in the law would comply with the ECHR judgment.

I have a copy of that judgment. If we are simply trying to comply with it, I believe the Government can be far stricter than they are currently being. The judgment says the following in being critical of the UK Government’s position so far:

“It had regard to the fact that it”—

the UK Government’s position—

“stripped a large group of people of the vote; that it applied automatically irrespective of length of sentence or the gravity of the offence”.

My interpretation of the judgment is that if we place a bar on those prisoners serving a particular length of sentence and on the categories of offence, that would still comply with the judgment. Therefore, the Government can be far tougher and still remain within the ECHR judgment if they wish to do so.

For example, the Government could not only bar from voting those sentenced to at least four years, but those convicted of, say, sexual offences, which my hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey), who was here earlier, mentioned, or any other category of offence. It is the blanket ban that the ECHR has rejected.

Imprisonment for committing a crime should bring with it a deprivation of liberty beyond a mere bar on the freedom of movement. That deprivation should include the deprivation of the right to vote.

Oral Answers to Questions

Gareth Johnson Excerpts

Tuesday 26th October 2010 Commons Chamber

The Deputy Prime Minister was asked—

[Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con)]

1. What recent representations he has received on his proposals to create fewer and more equally sized constituencies.

[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)]

5. What recent representations he has received on his proposals to create fewer and more equally sized constituencies.

[The Deputy Prime Minister (Mr Nick Clegg)]

A range of views have been expressed to me, in correspondence and discussion, on the Government’s proposals to create fewer and more equally sized constituencies. In addition, the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill had five days of debate on the Floor of the House for its Committee stage.

[Gareth Johnson]

Does the Deputy Prime Minister agree that it is vital to have constituencies in which all votes carry equal weight, in order to restore public trust in our democratic process?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I strongly agree with my hon. Friend. It is one of the founding principles of any democracy that votes should be valued in the same way, wherever they are cast. Over the years, all sorts of anomalies have developed, such that different people’s votes are simply not worth the same in elections to this place. That surely cannot be right, and it is worth reminding those Opposition Members who object to the rationale that it was one of the founding tenets of the Chartists—one of the predecessor movements to the Labour party—that all votes should be of equal value.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Attorney-General]

First, the NFSA can supply information on how people can protect themselves against fraud, and it regularly does so. Secondly, as my hon. Friend will know, the Government have announced an extra £650 million for cyber-security, which will be used to look at how hacking, getting into people’s internet accounts and acquiring people’s identities can be properly countered.

[Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con)]

4. What representations he has received on his recent report on unduly lenient sentences; and if he will make a statement.

[Andrew Bingham (High Peak) (Con)]

5. What representations he has received on his recent report on unduly lenient sentences; and if he will make a statement.

[The Solicitor-General]

In July this year, my right hon. and learned Friend the Attorney-General and I released information on unduly lenient sentences in cases for 2009, the latest year for which figures are available. The figures show that of 311 sentences considered by the Law Officers, 108 were referred and heard by the Court of Appeal, of which 71 sentences were increased by the Court. The decision whether to refer cases often generates a good deal of media or public interest, but no representations were received by the Attorney-General’s office as a direct consequence of the publication of that information.

[Gareth Johnson]

Does my hon. and learned Friend agree that nothing undermines victims of crime more than unduly lenient sentences? Unfortunately, not all unduly lenient sentences can be appealed against. Will he therefore consider increasing the number of offences where such sentences can be appealed against?

[The Solicitor-General]

As my hon. Friend realises, the statutory scheme comes under the Criminal Justice Act 1988, which provides us with the rubric that we must follow. We are limited by that statute, but if he thinks that particular crimes or sentences need to be looked at so that that law can be adjusted, I advise him to write to the Ministry of Justice.