Public Bodies Bill [Lords]

Gavin Shuker Excerpts

Tuesday 25th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Andrew George]

Whether I get it is a matter for the hon. Gentleman to judge and for me to emphasise that of course I do.

[Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op)]

The hon. Gentleman is making a series of good points about the retention of the AWB. However, his hon. Friends have raised the views of farmers. Is he aware of the survey carried out in and around the New Forest by Stuart Harding, who saw 44 farmers at random, 37 of whom were opposed to the abolition of the AWB?

[Andrew George]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I must admit that I am not fully aware of such surveys. As I said in response to an earlier intervention, the view is not universally held across all agricultural employers, some of whom have privately explained to me that they find that the framework that the AWB provides creates inefficiency in how they negotiate and establish agreements, sometimes admittedly verbal, with their work force.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew George]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for acknowledging that the very distinctive region of Cornwall deserves such devolution.

The hon. Gentleman makes a perfectly decent point, although I have to say that provided that the Government follow their word about the Bill being the enabling framework for abolitions to be made by order, he and his colleagues in Wales will be able to advance the idea of variable geography with regard to retaining protection for agricultural workers when orders are made. However, that is perhaps a debate for another day.

[Gavin Shuker]

The hon. Gentleman is being extremely generous with interventions—I appreciate it.

The hon. Gentleman seems to have a lot of faith that the enabling framework in the Bill leaves the Government with an open mind about this matter. He listed a number of matters involved other than the minimum wage, such as other terms of employment and pay and conditions. Unless I am mistaken, I have not heard him mention sick pay so far, but we know from the Commission for Rural Communities, a body that is itself to be abolished under the Bill, that that will take £9 million out of the rural economy.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Paice]

Clearly, the worker will negotiate with his putative new employer. [Interruption.] I will be more objective: the real world says that that worker is unlikely to move to someone who will pay him less than the job that he is leaving. That is the reality.

[Gavin Shuker]

rose—

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

Will the Minister give way?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Anderson]

rose—

[Gavin Shuker]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Paice]

No; I will make some progress. I, too, heard the right hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Alun Michael).