Jobs and Business

Debate between Gordon Birtwistle and Chuka Umunna

Friday 10th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab)]

Before I start, I should just say that I understand that my hon. Friend the Member for Hartlepool (Mr Wright) and the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, shared a birthday yesterday. I just want to wish them a belated happy birthday so as to start on a positive note before moving on to the Government’s record since the previous Queen’s Speech. It is right for us to take stock, to look at where we are now and where we were last year, before considering Her Majesty’s Gracious Speech.

When we convened to debate the speech last year, unemployment had soared beyond 2.6 million, we were in a double-dip recession, and the Government were borrowing £150 billion more than they forecast to pay for the cost of their failed economic plan. The Secretary of State’s answer to that state of affairs was to bring forward an enterprise Bill that started with some sensible measures, but ended up becoming a Christmas tree of a Bill. It contained measures to water down the statutory remit of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, to trample over people’s rights at work, to overturn health and safety protections that have existed for more than 100 years, and to abolish—this came rather late in the Bill’s progress—the Agricultural Wages Board that protects agricultural workers. That was all done in the name of growth, without a scintilla of evidence to show how doing so would create jobs and boost enterprise.

The right hon. Gentleman then went on to co-sponsor the Growth and Infrastructure Bill. That did not even feature in last year’s Queen’s Speech, but sought, among other things, to establish a shares for rights scheme where, in return for being given shares in their employer’s company, employees would be required to sacrifice their rights at work. That was described by the Government’s own side as having all the hallmarks of being thought up by somebody in the bath. Again, no evidence was produced to show that the measure would produce growth.

There is an irony in all this. Last year, the Business Secretary had gone around saying that he did not think much of the Prime Minister’s employment law adviser, the Conservative donor Adrian Beecroft, and his proposals to run a coach and horses through people’s rights at work, which, by Mr Beecroft’s own admission, had no evidence base whatever. There is clearly a thin line between love and hate, because the Secretary of State did Mr Beecroft proud in the last parliamentary Session. That is not to say that his coalition partners should be absolved of the blame—they were all in it together, to coin a phrase. Notwithstanding the fact that what they were doing was wrong in principle, I fail to understand the politics of it. Let us take the Conservative party, a party that has not won a general election since 1992. We are told that it has a strategy of gaining 40 seats and retaining 40 of their most marginal seats at the next general election, yet 70% of those 40 seats it wishes to retain have significant numbers of agricultural workers. In fact, 10 of the constituencies most adversely affected by the abolition of the Agricultural Wages Board are Conservative marginals, including Lancaster and Fleetwood, Weaver Vale, Hastings and Rye, Sherwood, and Morecambe and Lunesdale. At the general election, we will remind every single voter in those seats of the Conservative party’s betrayal of them.

What has happened to the economy since the Government’s first two Queen’s Speeches? The Secretary of State made various international comparisons in his contribution. Since October 2010, the UK economy has grown by just 1.1% compared with the 6% forecast made by the Office for Budget Responsibility, and 3% growth in Germany and 4.3% growth in the US during the same period. Unemployment is stuck around the 2.5 million mark. A large number of those in work are working part time when they want full-time work, and people have faced an average pay cut of £1,700. Let us not forget that that was all being done in the name of reducing borrowing. We now have a situation where the Government are borrowing £245 billion more than they planned—the equivalent of the health and education budgets combined, and then some.

The Secretary of State is an economist. The reason why this strategy is failing was put very well to me, when I sat on the Treasury Committee, by a former member of the Monetary Policy Committee, Adam Posen. He highlighted the problem of the Government’s strategy. What they were attempting to embark on was an experiment. It was the most extreme consolidation embarked on by any Government in the western world at this point in a country’s recovery from the economic heart attack to which the Secretary of State referred. That is why their policy has failed.

[Gordon Birtwistle (Burnley) (LD)]

The hon. Gentleman says that the German and US economies have done well and have not faded like our economy. Does he accept that those two countries supported their manufacturing sector while the Labour party, when it was in charge, ran our manufacturing sector down from 22% to 9% of GDP?

[Mr Umunna]

I certainly accept that we want to grow our manufacturing sector, but the Secretary of State has conceded that, for example, the things we did in the automotive industry by setting up the Automotive Council have helped to increase the output of that sector. So I do not agree that we did nothing to boost manufacturing in this country.

My right hon. Friend the shadow Work and Pensions Secretary will talk later about the failure of the Government’s schemes to get the unemployed back to work.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Umunna]

I completely agree with my hon. Friend. Some things I support, such as the start-up loan scheme, could be of real benefit to our different diverse communities, particularly to young people and young entrepreneurs seeking to set up businesses. The problem up to now—I appreciate that James Caan is doing fantastic work on this—is that there has not been enough awareness of it. I have offered to help him raise such awareness in our different diverse communities.

[Gordon Birtwistle]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the destruction or non-acceptance of careers advice in schools—by both the previous Government and, I have to say, the present Government—is not helping young people to get into apprenticeships or further education? Does he agree that if we got professional careers advice back in our schools, more young people would be interested in doing apprenticeships rather than going to university to study subjects that in some cases will not lead to any job?

[Mr Umunna]

That is an extraordinary intervention from the hon. Gentleman, given the huge cuts that this Government have made to information, advice and guidance, including to careers advice. I remind the hon. Gentleman that it is his Government—and he voted for it—who have cut and destroyed Connexions. I know from experience in Lambeth in my constituency that Connexions made a massive difference.

Let me move on to infrastructure. Good infrastructure, of course, is at the heart of an industrial strategy and crucial to creating the right business climate. That is why we asked the chairman of the Olympic Delivery Authority, Sir John Armitt, to crack this issue for us.

In the Queen’s Speech, after three years of dither and delay, we have finally seen some movement on transport infrastructure in the form of the HS2 Bill. I think I speak for many business people when I say that people would like to see this Government move on aviation, too. The Government should bring forward the date for Sir Howard Davies’ review of aviation and ensure that his report is produced before the general election. We need no more dither and delay on that issue either.

Blacklisting

Debate between Gordon Birtwistle and Chuka Umunna

Wednesday 23rd January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Gordon Birtwistle (Burnley) (LD)]

I will not delay the House long, because the Secretary of State has commented on most of the things that I was going to say. However, I agree with the rest of the House: we should obviously outlaw blacklisting in this country.

In January 2010 the Labour Government passed the Employment Relations Act 1999 (Blacklists) Regulations 2010, which made it unlawful to compile, sell or use a “prohibited list”, or blacklist. Those regulations also include information on what a prohibited list would include. Therefore, as I understand it, the law is in place and does not allow retrospective claims. I would be pleased to be corrected, but I understand that that law has been in place since January 2010, and the Secretary of State is right to say that if blacklisting is continuing, we need to know and amend the law already in place.

[Mr Umunna]

On that point and the existing legal redress, as I said in my speech, false self-employment is totally rampant in the construction sector, and part of the problem with the existing law is that it does not cover a situation where someone is working as a contractor, because for them to get redress from those responsible for engaging in such activities is currently very difficult.

[Gordon Birtwistle]

I am happy with that intervention, which basically confirms what I have just said. If the law at the moment is not suitable, it needs to be changed. If there is proof of blacklisting from 2010 onwards when the law was introduced, an investigation should be initiated. If we find that the law is still being contravened and is not suitable to resolve the problem, that law needs to be looked at. I think the Secretary of State implied that in his contribution.

I come from the engineering industry, which is equally as dangerous as the construction industry, although I think engineering receives far more visits from the Health and Safety Executive than the construction and mining industries. Perhaps we could get some information from the Health and Safety Executive on why it feels that blacklisting is creating a lot of health and safety issues.

--- Later in debate ---

[Gordon Birtwistle]

It could perhaps confirm that, in the construction industry, health and safety issues are not being taken seriously—perhaps I can put it like that—and then report back to the Secretary of State as part of his investigation.

In September 2012 the Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire (Jo Swinson) stated:

“Employees in the UK are protected against blacklisting by the Employment Relations Act 1999 (Blacklists) Regulations 2010. The Regulations allow them to bring a case to a civil court or an employment tribunal if they suspect that they have been denied employment, suffered detriment or been unfairly dismissed as a result of the use of an illegal blacklist.

As there is no evidence that the practice of blacklisting of trade union members is a widespread problem—”

since 2010—

“the Government do not believe that there is a need for further steps at this time.”—[Official Report, 10 September 2010; Vol. 550, c. 109W.]

The shadow Secretary of State says that there is new evidence, and if he is able to show the Secretary of State evidence that the law since 2010 has not been working, perhaps it would be a good idea for him to do that and for the Business Secretary to accept it and instigate what is asked for in the motion.

[Mr Umunna]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Gordon Birtwistle]

No, because a lot of other Members want to speak. The Secretary of State has already indicated that he does not intend to press this to a vote and that is he prepared to listen to new evidence and hold cross-party talks with Members and with trade unions. If there is evidence that the law is not strong enough or that it has been broken, and that people who claim to have been blacklisted are not being listened to, he has said he is prepared to take that forward and look at a possible change in the law. I agree: I do not think we should have a vote tonight, as most sensible people would agree that we need to look at the issue again, and if it is proven that things have changed since 2010, we need to change the law. I support what the Secretary of State said earlier.

Growth and Infrastructure Bill

Debate between Gordon Birtwistle and Chuka Umunna

Monday 17th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Gordon Birtwistle (Burnley) (LD)]

My first question is: where are all the Members who are supposed to be supporting this Bill?

I believe in freedom of choice. If an individual wishes to work for a company on a contract such as that which is proposed, they should be able to do so. That will not be the case in the big industries. Rolls-Royce and Jaguar Land Rover are not going to get involved. This scheme is for small niche companies in the high-risk sectors, such as high-tech firms and website designers, which employ recent graduates who want to get involved in such firms because they hope they will become a second Google. These companies are the gamblers that grow and create jobs in the future. I cannot understand why this Parliament should stand in the way of these people and say, “I’m sorry, but you can’t do that, even if you wish to do so.”

I think back to the 1960s when I was 24 and I had just come out of my apprenticeship. I went for a job as a contract draughtsman. I was offered two alternatives by the company. It was a good company, and it said I could have all the schemes it had, such as holiday pay and a contract for 44 hours of work a week—those were the hours we used to work in those days—and I would have a fixed rate. Alternatively, the company said I could have none of those schemes and have four shillings an hour more than everybody else was getting. I was keen to earn extra money, because I wanted to save up and put a deposit down on a house, so I decided not to have any of the conditions laid down by the company. I decided, on my own back, as I had the freedom to do so, to take extra money for working as many hours as I wished while having no contractual employment. I did that for two years and managed to raise enough money to put down a deposit on a house. That was my choice and it was the company’s choice to offer it to me. Other people worked there who wished to carry on with the conditions they had, but other young guys like me wanted to raise as much money as they could to put down deposits on houses, buy new cars and so on, and they went ahead and did it. They were free to do it—there was no pressure.

[Mr Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab)]

The hon. Gentleman’s central argument is that the proposed scheme is voluntary, but my problem, in addition to all the comments made by my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray), is that the Government have singularly failed to give any guarantee that a prospective employee in receipt of JSA who does not wish to take up such employment will not be penalised for not wishing to take a job without basic fundamental rights. That is, in fairness, the point that the right hon. Member for Hazel Grove (Andrew Stunell) has made: we have received no guarantees whatsoever. How can the hon. Member for Burnley (Gordon Birtwistle) say that this is voluntarily, if people could face such sanctions?

[Gordon Birtwistle]

I thank the shadow Secretary of State for his observation. My name is on the amendments tabled by my right hon. Friend the Member for Hazel Grove (Andrew Stunell) and I am waiting for the Minister to answer the questions they raise. I am sure he will give us some advice. If a the jobcentre advertisement for a job makes it clear that it involves giving away rights in return for shares, the person going for it will know that before they apply and will be completely open to the idea. If the jobcentre does not advertise those conditions, and the applicant is told about them only when he goes in for interview, my concern is whether he will still get his benefits when he tells the job centre the conditions he has been offered. I hope that the Minister will advise me that that applicant will still get their benefits, and if he does not I shall be extremely concerned and will have to consider which way to go. However, I am sure that the queries raised by our amendments will be answered.

Banking (Responsibility and Reform)

Debate between Gordon Birtwistle and Chuka Umunna

Tuesday 7th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Umunna]

I completely agree with the point my hon. Friend makes.

[Gordon Birtwistle (Burnley) (LD)]

rose—

[Mr Umunna]

I will move on.

Given that market mechanisms since the crash have not operated to rein in excessive pay in the banking sector, the bank bonus tax, we have argued, should be repeated, on top of the bank levy, in recognition of the fact that the banking sector owes a responsibility to society in general. If the claim that we are all in it together is to mean anything, the reintroduction of that tax is a must. It would create 100,000 youth jobs and 25,000 affordable homes. It would do immeasurable good to the reputation of the sector and support jobs, growth and business in the UK economy.