State Pensions: UK Expatriates

Greg Mulholland Excerpts

Thursday 20th April 2017 Commons Chamber

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

I pay tribute to the hon. Member for North Thanet (Sir Roger Gale), chair of the all-party parliamentary group on frozen British pensions, for his tireless and forceful campaigning on this issue over many years. I am proud to be a member of that group, but it is very much about his determination to see an end to this injustice. I hope that his campaigning, both personally and collectively, will soon start to bear the fruit that it deserves.

We are having this debate in an unexpected context. It was announced before the Easter recess, when none of us—even those on the Government Benches—had any idea that we would see Parliament dissolved and a general election. I think that is partly why fewer hon. and right hon. Members are here than there would otherwise have been, which is a shame. However, I was going to make the point anyway that there is a simple reason why this issue has never been resolved and Governments have been able to ignore it again and again. I say “Governments” because, as the hon. Gentleman said, it has been ignored by successive Governments. This is not a party political issue. All parties have failed to deal with it during their times in government.

I love and am hugely proud of being my constituency’s representative. Representing Leeds North West is the part of my job that I love most. However, the reality is that these 550,000 British citizens, who are the same as every one of us here and as all our constituents who are UK citizens, do not have an MP. They do not have a single person who directly represents them and fights their cause in the way that we all do when we receive constituents in our surgeries who tell us about injustices that they face. One MP, or groups of us, can take up those issues and campaign until we finally get Ministers, of whatever colour or Government, to make a change. This group of people do not have an MP. They are disenfranchised and are not represented. Constitutionally, the length of time that this injustice has endured means that it may now be time to look at what France and other countries do and somehow have representation for our UK citizens who live abroad.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for North Thanet (Sir Roger Gale) on securing this debate. I supported his bid.

Does the hon. Member for Leeds North West (Greg Mulholland) recall our meeting in the House of Commons two or three months ago with a number of people who had come from overseas to make representations? Surely it is bad when people have to come from overseas, at great expense, to lobby Members of the Westminster Parliament. This issue goes back to the 1960s, so he is right to refer to successive Governments. This has gone on for far, far too long.

[Greg Mulholland]

I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman. I pay tribute to the dogged campaigners who have worked with the all-party parliamentary group. Their campaigning is remarkable, particularly given the distances involved. The situation he highlights makes my point even more clear. This group of campaigners, these British citizens, came to Parliament, but who could they directly contact? We meet our constituents when they come to lobby us, and we point people who come from another part of the country to their own MP, but we do not represent people who contact us from Canada, Africa or wherever it is because they are not our constituents. I pay tribute to the members of the APPG, and particularly to the very active members and the chair, for being prepared to represent such people through friendship.

Many of us have come to this issue because we have been told about a constituent’s relative or friend, or perhaps because we know someone in this situation. I do not know such a person, incidentally, but I have come to the conclusion, simply by engaging with, listening to and reading the arguments, that this disgraceful injustice cannot continue. It is morally wrong and legally deeply questionable. Ultimately, the position taken by successive Governments in ignoring the issue and using the same standard excuse for many years, despite this Government recently saying that they will look into the matter, will be shown to be legally unsustainable in an increasingly globalised world.

Let us remind ourselves that this is happening in the context of post-Brexit turmoil, which will have all sorts of effects. In the future there will be a very real threat to UK citizens who live in the European Union, and I know the APPG will lobby strongly to ensure that the situation is resolved as part of the Brexit negotiations. We discuss freedom of movement and immigration, but we forget to talk about emigration and the fact that many British citizens, for very good reasons, use their right to go to live and work, or retire, in another country.

[Mr Virendra Sharma (Ealing, Southall) (Lab)]

This topic is important to many people, and not only those living abroad who left the UK for very good reasons, including people who migrated here in the 1950s and have since gone back to live in India, Pakistan, Australia and other places. Those people have contributed to this country’s economic and social life. I congratulate the APPG and its chair on raising these issues and on meeting and listening to the Australian campaigners who came here. I hope that the next Government will take this on board and ensure that these people are not disadvantaged.

[Greg Mulholland]

The hon. Gentleman is right that this is not only unjust but clearly discriminatory, particularly to those in certain diaspora groups. As he knows, Leeds and West Yorkshire have a proud and strong Asian community. I am proud to have a mosque and a Hindu temple in my constituency, and the next constituency has a wonderful Sikh temple, and those wonderful communities are very much part of the life of the community and economy in Leeds. Members of any of those communities are discriminated against, in exactly the same way as anyone else, if they choose to go back to their country of origin, perhaps to live with family or to support family members. That is another reason why this is legally questionable as well as clearly unsustainable.

We are proud to live in a globalised world, whatever side we took in the EU debate. I did not hear anyone say, certainly not in this House, that we should stop wanting to play our full part in the world. I did not hear anyone say that we should stop wanting people from other countries to work in our economy and our health service. Equally, I did not hear anyone say that we want to stop our own citizens having the right to emigrate. In a globalised world we have people who choose to marry a foreign citizen and live in their spouse’s country to find work. This injustice is effectively denying the right of real freedom of movement to all the citizens of this country, which is extraordinary in a globalised world and in a nation that purports to want to play its full part. We are proud to have citizens living in and contributing to America, Canada, Europe, Asia and Africa. If their family have decided to live, work and make their lives in another country, it is understandable that some old people would wish to retire to be with them.

Indeed, as the hon. Member for North Thanet said, there is a huge saving to this nation when someone chooses to emigrate—the estimated annual saving is £3,800—yet we are not prepared to uprate their state pension, which they have paid into, even though the figure would clearly be significantly lower.

We cannot have a situation, as we have now, in which some UK citizens who choose to retire abroad have their pensions uprated and some do not. There is also now uncertainty for people who intend to retire to the European Union, and of course more people who are married to an EU citizen are now deciding that they would rather live in the European Union.

We need to get a grip on the issue and stop the disparity between people in countries that happen to have a bilateral agreement and people in countries that still do not. The Minister has an opportunity to put that right in this Government, unless he has something wonderful to announce today. He, like all of us on both sides of the House, needs to ensure that the issue is addressed. Let us make a firm commitment that whoever is here in the next Parliament from 9 June will ensure that this injustice is at least partially resolved by the next general election in 2022.

After the election it is clear that the Government, of whatever colour—people do not particularly question what colour the next Government will be—must do something, because they can act unilaterally in this case. There does not have to be bilateral agreement. A Government could act on the basis of justice and of wanting to resolve the matter by making a unilateral decision to make a change for all cases.

We need to do this properly and ensure that people living all around the world all get the proper state pension; that is the only real form of justice on this. We need to decide that from now on people should get the state pension that they paid into and that they deserve, regardless of whether they live abroad, particularly as they are not costing the NHS money and are not part of the ongoing crisis in social care, which, again, successive Government have failed to deal with in this country.

Clearly, the Government will not commit to doing this at the moment, although they should. I still challenge the idea that introducing a proper state pension for all citizens abroad would necessarily lead to backdating. That view is overcautious, and legislation could be brought forward carefully to avoid that situation.

A commitment has to be made to the partial uprating that has been pushed by the all-party group and mentioned today by the hon. Member for North Thanet. The estimated cost is very modest, even in the context of wider spending demands. It is a modest change, and it clearly could and should be made early in the next Parliament to help those who have suffered, and the many people whose standard of living has been affected. Remember that many of these people are not well off; they are not rich. Many of them are ordinary people who have chosen to live abroad for very good reasons, such as those I have described. As was movingly set out by the hon. Gentleman, this injustice, which has gone on for many years, has meant that older pensioners are facing penury. They are living in poverty because of this injustice perpetrated by the British state, so we need a commitment to partial uprating. It would be wonderful to get it today, but that is unlikely in the context of the general election.

I am committed to campaigning on this in future, if I am returned to this place after the 8 June election. I will carry on making this case, even though I am not doing it for constituents, because this is about justice. I pay tribute to my colleague in the other place, Baroness Benjamin, who is also a member of our group and who has been very vocal on this issue in the Lords; I am sure that she and others will continue being so. I do not write the Liberal Democrat manifesto—they would not let me, although it would be very good if they did—but partial uprating should be in all the manifestos; the election has provided an opportunity for that. We should all commit to that, to ensure that uprating happens in the next Parliament. I will certainly put that to my party leader, and I hope others will do the same, because this is not a party political issue. It never has been. There is no direct criticism of any one party; there has simply been a failure on this, for the reasons I laid out.

Representative democracy has failed people who choose to move away from constituencies and no longer have one. Perhaps we could examine that. In the meantime, I hope that all parties, all members of the group and the Minister will consider whether it is finally time to commit to bringing in at least partial uprating, so that this clearly unjustifiable injustice is at last dealt with, and Governments of all colours stop ignoring it and looking away.

Oral Answers to Questions

Greg Mulholland Excerpts

Monday 27th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Damian Hinds]

May I first acknowledge and recognise my right hon. Friend’s particular expertise in this area? I met the National Autistic Society at the party conference, as a number of colleagues did, and some of the statistics she mentions are indeed very striking. The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work is bringing forward, through the Green Paper process, a particular focus on the talents, abilities and potential of people with autism, which will be key.

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

Research just published shows that the forthcoming apprenticeship levy will make the north-south divide worse, because investment will be focused on the south-east, not where it is needed in the north. What will the Minister do to address that?

[Damian Hinds]

This is a generational shift in investment in the skills base. The levy is an important part of ensuring that all firms of a particular size are incentivised to take part, and the new Institute for Apprenticeships will guarantee the quality of apprenticeships. I think that that will benefit the entire country.

Personal Independence Payments

Greg Mulholland Excerpts

Wednesday 15th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Damian Green]

I appreciate my right hon. Friend’s concern. The committee makes a number of recommendations, and, as ever with the SSAC, I will take all of those recommendations very seriously and respond to them fully.

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

My hon. Friend the Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron) has tabled an early-day motion signed by 143 Members, including the Leader of the Opposition. Why are the Government so keen on ignoring this place and Parliament and on bulldozing this unpopular change through? Will the Secretary of State agree to a proper debate in this House on this unpopular measure?

[Damian Green]

Since, I think, this is the second time that we have discussed this issue in a week, it is hard to argue that Parliament is not having a say. We have followed the usual procedure: we have tabled a statutory instrument, which the hon. Gentleman and his party leader, the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron), are free to pray against, and which then goes through the usual channels. This is a perfectly normal procedure.

Oral Answers to Questions

Greg Mulholland Excerpts

Monday 21st November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Nokes]

The DWP has long recognised the challenges that some claimants, particularly those with multiple or complex needs, may face in the transition to universal credit. That is why we have developed the personal budgeting strategy to ensure that claimants have access to suitable financial products and money advice. For the small minority who need them, alternative payment arrangements can be set up. All APA cases are dealt with urgently and the majority of cases are processed within the first assessment period and within a five-day average clearance time.

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

It was a long overdue victory for common sense that those people with chronic illnesses and long-term conditions will no longer be subject to the work capability assessment, but what about our brave veterans in receipt of war pensions? Why are they still subject to work capability assessments?

[Penny Mordaunt]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very good point. It is one that I, as a former Armed Forces Minister, have discussed with the Department. That is why we have specific questions related to our armed forces in the Green Paper. It is a good idea.

Under-occupancy Charge

Greg Mulholland Excerpts

Monday 14th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Damian Green]

I can, and my hon. Friend makes his point using his particular expertise in dealing with these cases not just as a Member of this House, but as a local councillor as well. I mentioned the figure for disability spending earlier, and it is indeed rising.

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

It is not only councils, housing organisations and charities that have made it clear that the people who are now exempted through the court case should have been exempt all along; the Secretary of State also realises that he failed to listen to the will of this House when it passed the Affordable Homes Bill. Will he now listen and ensure that when people cannot find homes because there are no suitable homes to move to they are also not penalised?

[Damian Green]

I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman and I think that this Government have a good record on affordable housing—we certainly have a considerably better record than the previous Labour Government. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government has announced more money that will be used in part for affordable housing to ensure that we deal with what is absolutely a genuine issue.

Improving Lives: Work, Health and Disability Green Paper

Greg Mulholland Excerpts

Monday 31st October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Damian Green]

As I have said, we are doing large-scale, localised consultations, and that is the way to do it. There is a huge network of 750 jobcentres around the country, so the DWP has the power to get into local areas and know what local conditions are. That is by far the most powerful tool we have to make sure that the services we offer can be appropriately sensitive in every local area.

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

Despite some changes, the work capability assessment system is fundamentally flawed. Surely reform must ensure that, as well as the system judging whether people are fit for a job, the jobs are available for them. Will the Secretary of State look at whether a new assessment can include the jobs available in a local area as well as the claimant’s condition?

[Damian Green]

I hope that the hon. Gentleman will recognise that more jobs are available and being taken in our economy than ever before. General levels of unemployment are very low—4.9% is a rate that would have been unimaginable in previous eras, so we should be proud of that. The key is to make sure that those jobs—I agree with him on this point—can be matched to those who may have a disability or long-term health condition so that they can take advantage of the vibrant jobs market we currently have.

Oral Answers to Questions

Greg Mulholland Excerpts

Monday 9th May 2016 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Crabb]

I have met the action group on previous occasions. We continue to look at all these issues. The hon. Gentleman is aware that other very high-profile cases are currently looking for the support of the Pension Protection Fund.

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

Physical inactivity costs the UK some £8 billion. I had an excellent meeting with the Secretary of State’s predecessor before he decided to leave the job. May representatives from Leeds Beckett University, which does wonderful work in this area, and I have a meeting with the Secretary of State to discuss this?

[Stephen Crabb]

I would be very happy to meet them.

State Pension Age

Greg Mulholland Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Duncan Smith]

I agree with my right hon. Friend. It is worth putting that into the context of what we have already done to sustain and support pensioners in the longer term. First, we have introduced more saving through automatic enrolment. More than 6 million people are saving for a pension. Secondly, the introduction of the single tier puts pension payments above the means test, allowing people to save in the knowledge that they will always hold their savings. Thirdly, the state pension is more than £1,000 higher than it was when we came into office. That is why we need to get the demographic changes right. We are going to be fairer to pensioners and support them as other Governments have never done.

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

I am not going to get angry, but I gently point out to the Secretary of State that he is quite wrong to say that there is a consensus on the matter. Indeed, he has broken the consensus that he established with the excellent former Pensions Minister, Steve Webb. The agreement was that independent reviews would look every five years at life expectancy and fairness for those who were paying in, but the Secretary of State is introducing affordability, which was not part of the original proposal, as well as bringing the review forward. Will he acknowledge that that is a change from what he agreed with Steve Webb and what the coalition Government delivered?

[Mr Duncan Smith]

I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman chooses to find a difference, because I do not think that there is one. No one has more respect for the former Pensions Minister than I do; he is a good personal friend and I thought he did a brilliant job as Pensions Minister. As coalition partners, we worked well together. He and I agreed to introduce the independent review in the Pensions Act 2014. Sir John is quite capable of looking at the matter in the round, as we have asked him to do, and making a decision on the basis of “robust, evidence-based analysis”, as set out in the terms of reference. He may yet say, “I see no need to make any change,” but I am prepared to back him on that.

Welfare Reform and Work Bill

Greg Mulholland Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

The Minister has mentioned fluctuating conditions. It is well known that mental health problems cause fluctuating conditions which are very hard to deal with, but 50% of the people affected by the cut in ESA have such problems. Surely that has not been built into the Government’s thinking. What analysis has the Minister made of the impact?

[Priti Patel]

I have just touched on what we are doing to find extra employment support. As I have said, we are working with other organisations, and I have named only some of them. However, the issue of mental health is crucial to the way in which we connect our systems, working with the NHS. A joint working group from the Department for Work and Pensions and the Department of Health is looking into how we can help members of the ESA work-related activity group with mental health conditions, provide signposts for them, and secure treatment for them as well.

Under-occupancy Penalty

Greg Mulholland Excerpts

Thursday 28th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Justin Tomlinson]

I thank my hon. Friend. Not only is £870 million proving to be the right amount of money for local authorities, but awareness continues to increase year on year.

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

It is simply astonishing that the Government are still not listening and not facing up to the reality of the flaws in this policy, in the same way as they blocked the Affordable Homes Bill, the private Member’s Bill in the name of the former MP for St Ives. Instead of wasting yet more public money on a court case, can they not dust off that Bill and make the changes that clearly need to be made to this policy?

[Justin Tomlinson]

We are determined to protect the most vulnerable in society. As we have shown, these people were getting the funding that they should have got and were entitled to.