Rail Manufacturing: Job Losses

Debate between Greg Smith and Huw Merriman

Tuesday 16th April 2024 Commons Chamber

[Huw Merriman]

The hon. Member’s argument is slightly punctured by the fact that Hitachi built its plant after the Conservative Government came to power, because it understands that we support businesses, attract businesses and want them to succeed not only with domestic orders, but with export orders. To say that we are abandoning it, when I have just described how we have had 8,000 new rolling stock vehicles produced since 2012 and the average age has gone down from 21 years to 16.8 years, rather demonstrates that he does not know what he is talking about.

[Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that this is a complex scenario, but there really is no need for us to be in one of the troughs in the supply chain at the moment. Chiltern Railways has massive overcrowding because its stock is the oldest fleet, and it is desperate for more trains on the network. We also have East West Rail about to launch with borrowed diesel trains, rather than the new hybrids or hydrogen trains that are fit for the modern age. As my hon. Friend looks at what can be brought forward, will he prioritise Chiltern and prioritise getting the trains that people want to see on East West Rail?

[Huw Merriman]

I know that my hon. Friend, who is another excellent member of the Transport Committee, has written to the Secretary of State, and we are lining up a meeting to discuss Chiltern’s rolling stock. He knows I am very keen to find a solution with some rolling stock that is available, and I am looking to take that forward. He asked about the situation with East West Rail. The consultation will go forward this summer. I have referred to the testing of a battery-powered train that went for 86 miles, and I believe the route from Oxford to Cambridge is 84 miles, which suggests that could be an answer to the point he rightly makes.

High Speed 2 Compensation

Debate between Greg Smith and Huw Merriman

Thursday 18th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Huw Merriman]

I am due to meet the hon. Member. He said that I had declined to meet him after two requests; actually, I had a meeting in his diary yesterday, but according to his office he was unable to make that meeting. We have set another date for 31 January. I will talk to the hon. Member about the matters he raises; the Department and the HS2 team have looked at them before and do not agree with the conclusions he has mentioned, but we will discuss those matters when we meet on the 31st.

As has been set out by my hon. Friends and other Members who have spoken, property owners who have found themselves obliged to deal with HS2 Ltd and its contractors have had varied and, at times, inconsistent experiences. Those property owners are understandably less interested in what HS2 can or cannot deliver for transport and the wider economy: their focus has instead been on seeking the compensation they are entitled to, and navigating what must at times have seemed like an unequal relationship with HS2 Ltd.

I readily acknowledge how important it is that those owed compensation, such as money for the purchase of their property or expenses or costs associated with such transactions, are paid in as timely a manner as is possible. I have always sought to impress on the company and its agents that it is unacceptable that cases should drag on. That is of no benefit to anyone—certainly not the property owner, and certainly not the taxpayer.

When it comes to paying owners for title to properties that they have, in many cases, sold unwillingly, it is only right that those owners should receive recompense in full and as fast as is practicable. That said, each property transaction is unique, so presents its own set of circumstances. As many in this House will be aware, when negotiating and settling compensation claims, HS2 Ltd follows the principles set out in the compensation code. There are also a number of discretionary schemes that offer further help to those not eligible under the statutory framework—in effect, they go above and beyond that framework.

HS2 Ltd must achieve a careful balance between meeting the needs of the claimant and delivering value for money to the taxpayer. The compensation code requires claimants to provide robust evidence for their claims. It is often when claimants are struggling to provide sufficient suitable evidence for their claims that negotiations become frustrated, leading to delays. I will be frank: the extent to which claimants’ agents provide suitable evidence, or are willing to negotiate from a realistic standpoint, varies considerably—I have found myself in the middle of some discussions of that type in constituents’ homes. It is important to understand that background, as it helps to explain why, in some instances, property owners consider that they are having payments withheld. When late payments do occur, they are never acceptable, but our data shows that they are the exception rather than the rule.

Property cases should be concluded as soon as is practicable, within the constraints imposed by the balance of the property owner’s interests and those of the taxpayer. The evidence shows—I will happily write to every right hon. and hon. Member who has taken part in this debate—that HS2 Ltd is succeeding in closing down claims, despite the considerable complexities that those claims involve. However, I acknowledge that there are a number of impacted parties with whom HS2 Ltd has not yet been able to reach agreement and negotiations have become challenging, and we have heard about many of them this afternoon. As I mentioned, I have got myself involved in many of those cases to move them further along and challenge HS2 as to the position taken.

My hon. Friend the Member for Stafford is a tireless advocate for the cases that have arisen in her constituency, some of which she and I have previously discussed, as she mentioned. She has cited some particular cases during the debate; I will write back to her with my latest understanding of where matters sit regarding her constituents Mr and Mrs Tabernor and Mr Collier. The same applies to other constituent cases named in this debate by my right hon. Friend the Member for South Staffordshire and others.

With regard to the point about intimidation—I say this as someone who chaired the Transport Select Committee—I believe that everyone should be able to give clear, frank, open and transparent evidence without fear or favour. If there is any evidence of intimidation, I will of course look at it and make sure that it is eradicated. I give everyone in the House that assurance. As my hon. Friend the Member for Buckingham (Greg Smith) has demanded, I am determined that HS2 Ltd should continue to up its game in dealing with difficult and disputed cases, such as the ones that have been mentioned today and others that I am aware of.

Let me touch on a few matters raised by other hon. Members we have heard from but I have not mentioned. The hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham (Sarah Green) referenced a number of cases. I am very happy to meet her, as I have previously. She is a tireless advocate on her constituents’ behalf and I will meet her again to discuss some of those cases. I have touched on the points made by the hon. Member for North West Leicestershire (Andrew Bridgen) and look forward to meeting him and going through the points he made in the debate.

My hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Dr Mullan) has been a tireless advocate of the benefits that HS2 could deliver to his constituency, and it is the one part of the country that I believe needs particular mention. I spent a morning with him and local Cheshire East councillors looking at the potential and at what the team had brought. It will not have escaped his attention that the local government Minister—the Under-Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, my hon. Friend the Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare)—has entered the Chamber. The two of us spoke earlier this week about the needs of Crewe, and we also spoke to other colleagues. He has been a tireless champion of the council, with the predicament that it finds itself in, and when I and the local government Minister meet the team from Cheshire East, my hon. Friend is certainly welcome to join us. We have made such points to other colleagues, and we are determined to help and to work together. I know that the local government Minister cares about these matters and will work with us to do so.

I say gently to the hon. Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East (Mike Kane)—he is a fellow football player with me, as well as a good friend—that the Labour position appears to keep changing. Just last week, the Leader of the Opposition went to Manchester to say that HS2 would no longer continue, which was slightly inconsistent with what we heard this afternoon. It may well be the case that many dispute the plan we have in place, but the plan is not to go ahead with HS2 north of Handsacre, and instead to spend that money—the £36 billion—on projects across the country, particularly to benefit all cities across the north and the midlands. That is the plan, but I think we would all like to know what Labour’s plan is. Is it going to deliver HS2? If it is not going to deliver HS2 beyond the midlands, is it going to commit to the £36 billion that this Government are committing to levelling up? I think we would all like that clarity, not least the constituents represented by all those sitting behind me.

[Greg Smith]

Will the Minister give way?

[Huw Merriman]

I cannot because of the time—by the look on your face, Mr Deputy Speaker.

Let me end with three final points. First, I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Stafford and all the other Members present for tirelessly working on behalf of those affected by HS2 and for the manner in which they have engaged with me. I am at their service. Secondly, I welcome and accept my hon. Friend’s kind invitation to visit Stafford. I will do so, and before the spring is out. Thirdly, and in conclusion, I commit to do the best that I can for property owners impacted by HS2, which includes ensuring the timely payment of compensation, the urgency of which has been laid bare in this debate.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Greg Smith and Huw Merriman

Thursday 14th December 2023 Commons Chamber

[Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con)]

Inevitably, concerns about overcrowding will come up this afternoon at a Chiltern Railways drop-in at Marylebone with Buckinghamshire MPs, so can the Rail Minister assure me that the Government are doing everything possible to push Chiltern to improve?

[Huw Merriman]

I can assure my hon. Friend that the Department is working closely with Chiltern as it looks to get more rolling stock to replace some of its ageing diesel stock. There are capacity issues, as he notes, because more people are using the railways, which is a great success, but we will work with the operator to ensure that it gets the rolling stock it needs.

Refurbishing Trains: Contracts

Debate between Greg Smith and Huw Merriman

Thursday 7th December 2023 Commons Chamber

[Huw Merriman]

As I have mentioned, we have written to ask rolling stock owners what more action they can take. Just on Monday, I was up in Yorkshire for the announcement of an extra £3.9 billion in funding for the TransPennine route upgrade. That also starts the tendering process for new rolling stock—29 new trains, with an option for another 26—and as I mentioned, we are looking for the tendering process for Southeastern, Chiltern and Northern to go forward as well, so orders are being put into the pipeline for train manufacturers.

[Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con)]

From the generous time he has given me on this subject, my hon. Friend will know that overcrowding on the Chiltern line persists to a very serious degree, because the age of the rolling stock regularly leads to Chiltern having to run very short trains on the main line—trains that some people cannot even get on in the first place. As he looks at this important subject, will my hon. Friend do all he can to ensure that Chiltern can get trains refurbished and get new trains into the pipeline as soon as possible?

[Huw Merriman]

My hon. Friend is a champion for the Chiltern line, and he does indeed bend my ear on that subject—he is right to do so, because that line is getting busier now, which is a positive. That tendering process will be brought into being next year: we want to see Chiltern trains, and that process should allow them to be delivered.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Greg Smith and Huw Merriman

Thursday 26th October 2023 Commons Chamber

[Huw Merriman]

I always take onboard the advice of the Transport Committee, because it does a great job and always has done. On ticket offices, these are industry proposals, which, pursuant to the process set out in the ticketing and settlement agreement, are currently being consulted on between the train operators and the passenger bodies. We expect that consultation stage to conclude shortly. I have made it clear at this Dispatch Box, and the Secretary of State has also been clear, that this should be a redeployment and multi-skilling of staff exercise to enhance the passenger experience.

[Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con)]

Serious overcrowding persists on Chiltern railway services serving my constituents, particularly at rush hours and weekends. The long-term solution is whole-fleet renewal, but there are some short-term fixes that Chiltern is asking for, such as being permitted to bring its extra set of Class 68s back into use. Can my hon. Friend assure me that he is doing everything possible at pace with Chiltern to improve rail services for my constituents?

[Huw Merriman]

My hon. Friend is another excellent member of the Transport Committee, and he always champions the need for more capacity on his busy railway lines. He is accurate: overcrowding is becoming an increasing concern for Chiltern, which is assessing options to mitigate the issue, such as further utilisation of the Class 68 units in and out of Marylebone to maximise capacity. There are issues with the diesel fleet, but we want to ensure that we can continue to provide the service for his Chiltern customers. In the longer term, I know that Chiltern is working with the rolling stock company providers to assess hybrid trains, with an aim to moving away from diesel.

Rail Ticket Offices

Debate between Greg Smith and Huw Merriman

Thursday 6th July 2023 Commons Chamber

[Huw Merriman]

It is not the ticket office but the expert people in it who assist passengers. With these proposals, the train operators are looking to free up people from behind the glass, often in parts of the station that passengers do not access, to help them to use their skills to get tickets sold at ticket machines and to advise people on how to purchase online, so they can do that in future, and thereafter to help them with the entire passenger journey experience, giving them information and making them feel more reassured.

These roll-outs have occurred across other parts of the network. London Underground did this some years ago, and I do not believe the current Labour Mayor of London has any plans to turn it round because it actually works. It gives a better passenger experience. People can either live in the past or look towards the future. The way in which passengers transact across a whole range of services is exactly the same, and we are keen to see the railways modernise and thrive.

[Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con)]

Many of my constituents write to me about overcrowding, on an almost daily basis, particularly on Chiltern Railways. No one has ever written to me about ticket office provision. Sympathetic as I am to the argument for ensuring staff come out from behind the counter to assist people directly on platforms and around the station, how will this solve the demands of passengers, which we are probably all seeing in our inboxes on a day-to-day basis, in relation to rush-hour capacity and weekend capacity?

[Huw Merriman]

Chiltern Railways, for example, is looking to expand coverage at High Wycombe. By redeploying staff, it can get more staff on to the platforms. This is an example of where my hon. Friend’s passengers will benefit because train operators can flex staff to provide more coverage, which makes people feel more reassured. Again, as hon. and right hon. Members look at the details and engage with the consultation, they may find their constituents are getting a wider range of services over a wider range of hours than they currently receive.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Greg Smith and Huw Merriman

Thursday 8th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Huw Merriman]

It is certainly the case that the High Speed Rail (London – West Midlands) Act 2017 and the High Speed Rail (West Midlands – Crewe) Act 2021 specify the circumstances in which HS2 must seek the consent of the Environment Agency for construction. I know that, on this particular matter, the Environment Agency has been working with HS2 Ltd since that ground movement was discovered. I have also asked for it to be looked into. I will ensure that I get a separate report from the Environment Agency so that we have that independence, and when I have that, I will happily sit down with the hon. Lady and her constituents to take them through what has been found. She is absolutely right: we need to have independent scrutiny. I am absolutely fixed on that myself.

[Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con)]

Two weeks ago, my constituents, the Hodges of Elm Tree farm in Steeple Claydon, discovered by accident while walking their dogs that HS2 Ltd was about to chainsaw an area of woodland on the farm that it had not paid for. There was no consultation. HS2 fenced off land that it does not own and then there were suspicious works in the middle of the night. When will my hon. Friend clamp down on this appalling, bullying behaviour from HS2 Ltd and its contractors?

[Huw Merriman]

I was very pleased to sit down very recently with my hon. Friend, people from HS2 Ltd and Buckinghamshire Council to go through some of the matters that were on his agenda. I know that this is the latest case that he has written to me about. I will look into the detail to ensure that we both have the correct facts, and the next time I am up near Steeple Claydon, which, as he knows, happens on a regular basis, we can perhaps take a look ourselves.

--- Later in debate ---

[Huw Merriman]

The steps I am taking on monitoring are looking at being able to put those operations back to the private sector. That is our preferred model. On TransPennine trains, I had a very good meeting with the interim chief executive, and I thank him for the work he is doing to stabilise. A plan is being looked at that will be delivered by next month, I believe. We currently have a situation where 50% of drivers are not trained up. What that tells us is that we need a lot more co-operation with the unions to get our drivers trained so that they can drive trains across all routes.

[Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

HS2: Revised Timetable and Budget

Debate between Greg Smith and Huw Merriman

Tuesday 14th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Huw Merriman]

I will take that as Liberal Democrat policy from now on. It is important that all parties have a shared policy. On the ecological benefits of HS2—I have viewed some of them—the area around Colne valley where the chalk is being tunnelled will created a new chalk habitat, and I have seen that for myself. There will be no net loss to biodiversity as the route goes up to Birmingham, and as it goes beyond there will be an ecology gain of 10%. In my view, HS2 is a force for good not just through decarbonisation and what that does for the environment, but in respect of ecology and the legacy it will leave.

[Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con)]

Instead of tinkering with the edges of HS2, would it not be better to admit that we cannot afford it as a country, that it has ruined livelihoods up and down the area where construction has commenced, and that it brings massive environmental destruction with it? Would it not be better to scrap it altogether? Does my hon. Friend agree that if he is to persist in building phase 1, among the cuts and budget reductions, not a penny will be taken from the mitigations put in place for residents who suffer real human misery under the construction of this project?

[Huw Merriman]

May I thank my hon. Friend? It was a pleasure to visit him and see some of the impacts in Buckinghamshire, which he so ably represents. I absolutely accept, as does HS2 Ltd, that right now HS2 is at the peak of construction—I referenced the amount being spent each month—which means the impact is probably at its greatest for residents. That will reduce as the line is delivered to Curzon Street, which it will be. We remain committed to delivery, but we are also committed to ensuring that we work with hon. Members, such as my hon. Friend, on mitigation measures. I am very happy to discuss with him further what more we can do to assist his constituents, but I have to be absolutely clear that we are delivering HS2 to Curzon Street in the time specified. It will continue to take place. I am very proud of that delivery and I want to thank everyone who is doing it.

Rail Cancellations and Service Levels

Debate between Greg Smith and Huw Merriman

Thursday 1st December 2022 Commons Chamber

[Huw Merriman]

Again, I am sorry for the experiences that my hon. Friend and his constituents have had to endure. It takes about 18 months to fully train a driver. A lot of hon. Members will find that extraordinary, but I sat in a cab on Monday and I saw that it is a technical and difficult job. However, there may be more improvements that we can make. During covid, there was a hold-up in what would have been the usual 18-month period, because it was not possible for the unions to have workforce next to workforce for health and safety reasons. However, I again make the point that we should not rely on rest-day working arrangements. We should have driver resilience in place so that we can fully run a seven-day train operation. That requires not only us to implement change, but the workforce, through the unions, to accept that change. I very much hope that they will and that all hon. Members will do everything they can to persuade them and make that case.

[Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is right to point out the myriad issues that the railways face. Chiltern Railways serves a great many of my constituents, and delays, the use of shorter trains than expected and cancellations have crept in, when we never really saw that with Chiltern before. The difference seems to be Network Rail’s ability to allow flexibility in the timetabling for Chiltern to run additional services or move its rolling stock around. What can we do, with Network Rail, to get greater flexibility to allow Chiltern to serve its consumers much better?

[Huw Merriman]

I know my hon. Friend’s line well, because he represents my mum and my family. He is right that we need to ask not only the workforce, but Network Rail to modernise. For example, is it still the case that engineering works should take place at weekends, when we have seen the greatest growth at weekends and use has perhaps dropped off on other days of the week? I am not saying that we will change things in that way, but we will look at ensuring that we have the best possible case in relation to when Network Rail intervenes on the asset and takes it over. I absolutely give him that assurance. I am sure that, as a member of the Transport Committee, he can give me much more guidance on how I should do that.